RE: 2021 F1 regulations target closer racing: Update!

[treborcccp]

Hmmmm I always thought that the point of racing was to win and overtaking was part of that process? Not only can we not watch the racing on tv we are know expected to pay to see cars side by side ....it's a joke

[Munter]

treborcccp said:

Hmmmm I always thought that the point of racing was to win and overtaking was part of that process? Not only can we not watch the racing on tv we are know expected to pay to see cars side by side ....it's a joke

I agree. Your post is humorous.

[treborcccp]

I thought racing was all about winning and overtaking is a major part of that process ,looks like Mr Brawn has been hijacked .
Watching 2 cars side by side .....makes formula E look interesting,and you can watch free how sad is that.

[sledge68]

Haha I thought the same, what did people do with their time before making inane comments on the internet, seems people feel the need to comment just to put their 2 pence in.

skinny said:

Haha brilliant. Only on ph, first reply to a new story on F1 is that F1 is boring and watch something else.
I'm interested to see how this goes, brawn imo is the right guy to sort this and has the brief nailed. They can't make the cars slower as F1 needs to remain the pinnacle of motorsport. But the cars need to be able to follow closely, and without gimmicks like DRS, it needs to be inherent in the design / regulations

[LG9k]

cidered77 said:

NowTV works well - and it costs effectively 7 quid to watch one race. Of 12 quid to watch a weekend.

There are other ways to watch as well - i get all the races on my phone through Vodafone, where sky sports bonus pack costs a fiver a month.

I was quoting the NowTV Prices. NowTV is owned by Sky, which is owned by Comcast.

Here's a nice link for everyone. https://www.nowtv.com/watch-f1-online

[anonymous-user]

GroundEffect said:

irocfan said:

cidered77 said:

irocfan said:

hasn't Brawn already 'failed' in his attempt to ensure that F1 is the fastest, most impressive motorsport?

- IIRC correctly Indycar is faster as is drag racing (at the highest level)
- as for impressive... it my not be everyone's kettle of fish but the top-fuelers are a different world to F1

You don't recall correctly. Indycar is significantly slower than F1 - COTA shows 10 seconds + per lap.

and drag racing... it's not really the same sport to compare, is it?

TBF Brawn did say the fastest racing car - a dragster is a racing car....

Fastest = shortest lap times
Quickest = max speed

Current F1 cars obliterate Indycars:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ft3Ug_YthM

Not exactly 1:1 since it was a qualifying lap in F1, but even if you add 3-4 seconds to the F1 time...

Ordinarily, we define quickest in reference to time over a distance, and fastest as a measured terminal velocity. It's pointless including drag racing in the discussion though. It's a different discipline, and so wildly different there's little crossover. Things like my old banger Corvette might go 250mph, but as I'm constantly reminded, it wont lap Silverstone very quickly, so is a bit st (someone else's words). Horses for courses in my opinion.

Indy is a sensible comparison but only because there's data to judge lap times against one another (COTA / Indy etc).

Back to F1 though; and to add some controversy - in my view, there's no real issue with the racing as it stands. If punters are expecting there to be overtaking every single lap, whenever someone just fancies passing an opponent, it becomes a bit comical. As it stands we have the quickest cars the formula's ever seen, and overtaking's possible with some sort of delta to the car ahead and some balls to get the move done.

Looking back at the overtakes in 2018 (of which there were a lot), a good 90% were hard fought, into the braking zone. DRS passes aren't the primary way of getting the job done now, and that's a positive - it's a great improvement over the early days of DRS and manual KERS. It looks like the 2019 regs will be effective in reducing outwash and allowing cars to travel in dirty air, so should make it easier again - I'd worry though so much focus being put on making overtaking easier, makes racing less entertaining.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CueULh46FDg

Unfortunately, rose tinted glasses always point to the same couple of races from 20 years ago as evidence that things used to be better - the reality is in the 'good old days' you had a couple of races each year with the odd high calibre overtake, and little else the rest of the season. A check through the 2018 season overtaking highlights reel shows how eventful it was across a multitude of tracks in respect to overtaking, all while setting track records most weekends.

[cidered77]

Quickben said:

I stopped watching F1 regularly years ago, when they regulated out the use of V10's, then when they pressed the mute button on the engines ie. the onset of the 1.6 turbo hybrids, I stopped watching entirely. I don't care about the racing, haven't given a toss about who the drivers are for ages. I'm only interested in the cars themselves.

It used to be an event to watch, even on tv, now it's boring to watch, boring to listen to, and the current presenters make my teeth itch. Every now and again I'll watch the highlights, but after 5mins of watching it, turn it off. It gets turned off even quicker if it's just the presenters posturing in front of the camera.

If they brought back the larger naturally aspirated engines, I'd watch it, no matter what contrivances they come up with to make it more exciting. Although, not on Sky, Sky can fvck off.

so just on a theme someone else pointed out around people using an F1 thread just to make inane comments on how they don't watch it... are we saying then that during the V10 era, you were enthralled by F1, were in no way miserable about anything "new", and in no way lamented back to the good old days... but in the intervening years all of those things have now happened.

There was no more overtaking in the V10 era than today, maybe less as they didn't have DRS. There was as much/more dominance by one team, and one driver, and quality drivers throughout the field.

Why are so so many comments on all things Internet negative for the sake of showing your negative about something... i just don't get it.

[Don Roque]

Evolved said:

If you like bikes, which I don’t.

How can you not like bikes? This is PH, you know.

[Traktion]

Channel 4 is doing highlights and full British Grand Prix coverage:

"2019 Coverage

Channel 4 will showing highlights of all the Qualifying and Formula 1® races this year, along with the British GP in full. We’ll update you with the dates and times as they become available."

https://www.channel4.com/4viewers/blog/formula-1-c...

[DoubleD]

Traktion said:

Channel 4 is doing highlights and full British Grand Prix coverage:

"2019 Coverage

Channel 4 will showing highlights of all the Qualifying and Formula 1® races this year, along with the British GP in full. We’ll update you with the dates and times as they become available."

https://www.channel4.com/4viewers/blog/formula-1-c...

Yep. Channel 4s coverage is reducing.

[Centurion07]

kbee540 said:

If Formula One is to be the pinnacle of motorsport, it would do well to get busy shredding most of their rules and regulations for the design/build of the cars. IMO the pinnacle should be where the teams/engineers find the fastest way around a racetrack with as few impediments as possible. Specify a minimum weight, a maximum size, define the number of wheels (if you must), require a bag of meat in the seat, and get on with racing. Then you’ll see the real innovation as teams take different approaches.

Which is great on paper but I think the issue with that is team's approaches will differ so wildly and that itself is the problem.

Given free reign, each team will come up with wildly different cars and that will most likely result in cars being absolutely miles apart in terms of performance and thus actually making the racing worse. At least with a fairly stringent set of rules you can ensure a certain level of closeness.

[mikeg15]

Centurion07 said:

At least with a fairly stringent set of rules you can ensure a certain level of closeness.

Like in Formula E ? I looked at Formula E once, it reminded me of this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VywKJSglL24

[Boosted LS1]

The Vambo said:

irocfan said:

TBF Brawn did say the fastest racing car - a dragster is a racing car....

Anyone else reading these posts in a Yeehaw bubba voice?

Probably!

That TF dragster can't drive round a corner. An F1 car has more cornering speed then every top fueller on the planet put together. That remark balances of the oft quoted 'that a top fueller has more power then an entire F1 grid' :-).

[anonymous-user]

Boosted LS1 said:

The Vambo said:

irocfan said:

TBF Brawn did say the fastest racing car - a dragster is a racing car....

Anyone else reading these posts in a Yeehaw bubba voice?

Probably!

That TF dragster can't drive round a corner. An F1 car has more cornering speed then every top fueller on the planet put together. That remark balances of the oft quoted 'that a top fueller has more power then an entire F1 grid' :-).

It's a two way street, and we rarely see Formula 1 cars accelerate from 0 to 335mph in 3.6 seconds. My point is the two forms of racing have very different criteria, and to say one is better than the other, is comparing two very different species of animal that have very little in common.

I'm an avid F1 fan, and am involved in Top Fuel (Funny Car) and Nostalgia Funny Car racing (with my own stbox Corvette I'm building, which as you alluded to, wont corner very quickly, so must be a bit rubbish). It's rare to have some sort of crossover though - most drag racing folk dislike circuit racing, and as this thread indicates, most F1 followers have a very dim view of drag racing, or as a minimum, lack the insight to what's involved to know it's not as simple as it looks.

One day, it would be great to have a middle ground where people who like motor sport, can celebrate all forms of racing - it's a pipe dream though.

[DoubleD]

[redacted]

[anonymous-user]

Modern F1 is just a huge networking event these days. What ‘racing’ there is is hampered by cars unable to work properly in dirty air and tbh having far too much power and not enough mechanical grip.

It’s the one insomnia cure which works every time.

Plenty of other options, MotoGP being one of the best right now. Why anyone would subscribe to a sport where qualifying is now the highlight is beyond me.

[DoubleD]

yonex said:

Modern F1 is just a huge networking event these days. What ‘racing’ there is is hampered by cars unable to work properly in dirty air and tbh having far too much power and not enough mechanical grip.

It’s the one insomnia cure which works every time.

Plenty of other options, MotoGP being one of the best right now. Why anyone would subscribe to a sport where qualifying is now the highlight is beyond me.

There is an easy fix to your problem, dont watch it.

[budgie smuggler]

DoubleD said:

Traktion said:

Channel 4 is doing highlights and full British Grand Prix coverage:

"2019 Coverage

Channel 4 will showing highlights of all the Qualifying and Formula 1® races this year, along with the British GP in full. We’ll update you with the dates and times as they become available."

https://www.channel4.com/4viewers/blog/formula-1-c...

Yep. Channel 4s coverage is reducing.

Yep, more's the pity. I personally would have preferred to pay for live coverage with the Whisper team but hey ho.

[cidered77]

mikeg15 said:

Centurion07 said:

At least with a fairly stringent set of rules you can ensure a certain level of closeness.

Like in Formula E ? I looked at Formula E once, it reminded me of this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VywKJSglL24

Look at it again, it's excellent racing, and very entertaining.

I watch F1, WEC (most of the 6 hours, and attend the 24); i watch all the IMSA races (go to the Daytona 24 ever year); i compete as well. i am, you might say "a motorsport fan" . I appreciate good racing, i appreciate strategy and team work, and i appreciate technology - Formula E has all of these things. Lessso in previous years, but it's bang on the money now. Fair play to them for trying to be different - F1 needs more innovation; needs a bit of Formula E mindset...

These paint-by-numbers responses of "it's boring, it's slow" are rarely from people you know, actually watch motorsport.....

[cidered77]

yonex said:

Modern F1 is just a huge networking event these days. What ‘racing’ there is is hampered by cars unable to work properly in dirty air and tbh having far too much power and not enough mechanical grip.

It’s the one insomnia cure which works every time.

Plenty of other options, MotoGP being one of the best right now. Why anyone would subscribe to a sport where qualifying is now the highlight is beyond me.

this stuff - this negative for the point of being negative, devoid of actual facts... it's very "2019" isn't it?

Look at this site, look at the graphs .... as it turns out, there was never excesses of overtaking in F1, it's a myth. Those "good old days"; they had their own miserable old bds complaining about the good old days as well.

Just don't watch it if you don't like it - but also, if you're going to claim "modern F1 doesn't have overtaking", it takes 2 mins to discredit the myth and prove it was ever thus...

http://cliptheapex.com/overtaking/