Birmingham Crash

Author
Discussion

silverfoxcc

7,683 posts

144 months

Saturday 16th March 2019
quotequote all
silver1011 said:
Quite a distinctive number plate on the Bentley...

I couldn't possibly comment.


gazza285

9,780 posts

207 months

Saturday 16th March 2019
quotequote all
98elise said:
Harji said:
Did we have the same thoughts about colour and race when two white boys killed four people in a crash , one a baby. Thought not.

https://news.sky.com/story/brothers-jailed-for-chi...

As for the speculation on the boys killed maybe not wearing seatbelts or whatever, it doesn't take much impact for an adults heart to detach itself on impact, about 15 mph hitting a wall can do it, how do I know? The Police told me on my motorcycle safety course. Speculate all you want now..
Try looking at the cars before victim blaming. It takes a bit more than 15mph to cave the side of a car in that far.
Where was the victim blaming in that post? Where did it say the impact was 15mph?



silverfoxcc

7,683 posts

144 months

Saturday 16th March 2019
quotequote all
A bit further back someone queried if the driver of the Bentley could be done for 'Causing death etc etc

If he was a party to the' race' then he should be.

Scenario 1 ( and i would hazard a guess we have all been here at sometime)

You are in the Bentley

Nobhead Audi driver starts to goad him into racing. You bite and the result, sadly, is this YOU are a party to the incident

However if he had done this

Scenario 2

You are in the Bentley

Nobhead Audi driver starts to goad him into racing. You ignore him, Audi blasts away looking for another sucker, and clobbers the car. You then arrive on scene

You are now a witness and nothing to do with it. Audi man did it without the help of you ( Scenario 1)

That is may take on it. others may have different opinions, I bet the Bentley lad, if he has any shred of humanity, must be saying to himself....what if, i had not put my foot down. BUT I doubt it. I just hope he and the other guy are banged up for a long time, No doubt some snowflake will get them 12mths inside and a ban... NOT that that matters to scum like him



st4

1,359 posts

132 months

Saturday 16th March 2019
quotequote all
silverfoxcc said:
A bit further back someone queried if the driver of the Bentley could be done for 'Causing death etc etc

If he was a party to the' race' then he should be.

Scenario 1 ( and i would hazard a guess we have all been here at sometime)

You are in the Bentley

Nobhead Audi driver starts to goad him into racing. You bite and the result, sadly, is this YOU are a party to the incident

However if he had done this

Scenario 2

You are in the Bentley

Nobhead Audi driver starts to goad him into racing. You ignore him, Audi blasts away looking for another sucker, and clobbers the car. You then arrive on scene

You are now a witness and nothing to do with it. Audi man did it without the help of you ( Scenario 1)

That is may take on it. others may have different opinions, I bet the Bentley lad, if he has any shred of humanity, must be saying to himself....what if, i had not put my foot down. BUT I doubt it. I just hope he and the other guy are banged up for a long time, No doubt some snowflake will get them 12mths inside and a ban... NOT that that matters to scum like him
All valid points and on reflection my original post mentioning this is probably wrong...

But the very last sentence "NOT that that matters to scum like him" seems a bit OTT. It was maybe a moment of madness, silliness, that does not make them scum and I still don't believe Jail is really the place for young bucks who get a big eager in a car. A very very long ban is probably a better option particularly in all other areas the chaps probably a productive and law abiding member of society.

98elise

26,372 posts

160 months

Saturday 16th March 2019
quotequote all
gazza285 said:
98elise said:
Harji said:
Did we have the same thoughts about colour and race when two white boys killed four people in a crash , one a baby. Thought not.

https://news.sky.com/story/brothers-jailed-for-chi...

As for the speculation on the boys killed maybe not wearing seatbelts or whatever, it doesn't take much impact for an adults heart to detach itself on impact, about 15 mph hitting a wall can do it, how do I know? The Police told me on my motorcycle safety course. Speculate all you want now..
Try looking at the cars before victim blaming. It takes a bit more than 15mph to cave the side of a car in that far.
Where was the victim blaming in that post? Where did it say the impact was 15mph?
I miss read the post then got on my high horse....I shall climb down off it now!

Countdown

39,689 posts

195 months

Saturday 16th March 2019
quotequote all
Hazuki said:
By 'innit bruvs' I'm guessing you mean they were Asian?

Would you therefore also class the kids by the same tag since they were also Asian?

I don't understand the point of your post. Black, white, Asian - the boy racers are complete and utter tts regardless.
I completely agree with you.

There are a minority of pretty vile posters on NP&E for whom it’s far more important to emphasise the race/religion/colour of the scum that did this and not really give a toss about the accident itself or the impact that it’s going to have on innocent families. As I said, its fairly vile but that’s the anonymity of the internet for you.

Going back to the OP - the punishments for causing Death by DD are pretty trivial. I think the absolute maximum is 14 years which means out in 7 on licence. Many will get sentenced in the lower bands and in some cases will be out in months rather than years.

The drivers are an absolute pair of thoughtless arrogant s. My heart goes out to the families of the victims.

markcoznottz

7,155 posts

223 months

Saturday 16th March 2019
quotequote all
Countdown said:
Hazuki said:
By 'innit bruvs' I'm guessing you mean they were Asian?

Would you therefore also class the kids by the same tag since they were also Asian?

I don't understand the point of your post. Black, white, Asian - the boy racers are complete and utter tts regardless.
I completely agree with you.

There are a minority of pretty vile posters on NP&E for whom it’s far more important to emphasise the race/religion/colour of the scum that did this and not really give a toss about the accident itself or the impact that it’s going to have on innocent families. As I said, its fairly vile but that’s the anonymity of the internet for you.

Going back to the OP - the punishments for causing Death by DD are pretty trivial. I think the absolute maximum is 14 years which means out in 7 on licence. Many will get sentenced in the lower bands and in some cases will be out in months rather than years.

The drivers are an absolute pair of thoughtless arrogant s. My heart goes out to the families of the victims.
It does matter because the entitled manner in which (usually) Pakistani young males have utter contempt for the law is cultural amongst an increasingly large subset of that community. Most Bentley owners don't go out racing at night, they go to Le Mans etc. Ticks all the boxes, no tax, illegal number plate, etc etc. Driver of the a3 ran off, no doubt he was banned/no licence etc etc. Same old same old. Some posters like brooking10 and countdown obviously take offence at some of the comments on these threads, the word 'vile' was used above, is saying 'innit' vile?

When we had the early 90's joyriding there was no attempt to hide the race of the individual, they were labelled chavs or scallys etc.

Pistonheader101

2,206 posts

106 months

Saturday 16th March 2019
quotequote all
markcoznottz said:
Countdown said:
Hazuki said:
By 'innit bruvs' I'm guessing you mean they were Asian?

Would you therefore also class the kids by the same tag since they were also Asian?

I don't understand the point of your post. Black, white, Asian - the boy racers are complete and utter tts regardless.
I completely agree with you.

There are a minority of pretty vile posters on NP&E for whom it’s far more important to emphasise the race/religion/colour of the scum that did this and not really give a toss about the accident itself or the impact that it’s going to have on innocent families. As I said, its fairly vile but that’s the anonymity of the internet for you.

Going back to the OP - the punishments for causing Death by DD are pretty trivial. I think the absolute maximum is 14 years which means out in 7 on licence. Many will get sentenced in the lower bands and in some cases will be out in months rather than years.

The drivers are an absolute pair of thoughtless arrogant s. My heart goes out to the families of the victims.
It does matter because the entitled manner in which (usually) Pakistani young males have utter contempt for the law is cultural amongst an increasingly large subset of that community. Most Bentley owners don't go out racing at night, they go to Le Mans etc. Ticks all the boxes, no tax, illegal number plate, etc etc. Driver of the a3 ran off, no doubt he was banned/no licence etc etc. Same old same old. Some posters like brooking10 and countdown obviously take offence at some of the comments on these threads, the word 'vile' was used above, is saying 'innit' vile?

When we had the early 90's joyriding there was no attempt to hide the race of the individual, they were labelled chavs or scallys etc.
Bloody hell - you’re probably the type of guy who supports the christchurch shooting.

st4

1,359 posts

132 months

Saturday 16th March 2019
quotequote all
Pistonheader101 said:
Bloody hell - you’re probably the type of guy who supports the christchurch shooting.
No - that's just silly. The post was perfectly reasoned, logical and well thought out and pretty much on the money.

Innit.

Sa Calobra

37,006 posts

210 months

Saturday 16th March 2019
quotequote all
st4 said:
No - that's just silly. The post was perfectly reasoned, logical and well thought out and pretty much on the money.

Innit.
Yet the vast majority of car crashes, modding, plate modding etc etc aren't Asian.

Why are Asian males targetted?

There's a racist undercurrent. I know PH is an open forum and some posters will claim not to be racist but then post crap on narrow minded viewpoints.



st4

1,359 posts

132 months

Saturday 16th March 2019
quotequote all
Sa Calobra said:
Yet the vast majority of car crashes, modding, plate modding etc etc aren't Asian.

Why are Asian males targetted?

There's a racist undercurrent. I know PH is an open forum and some posters will claim not to be racist but then post crap on narrow minded viewpoints.
Per head I am almost certain BAME males are much more likely to be involved in crime than non BAME. It's worth discussing exactly what diversity and cultural enrichment brings us. Higher crime rates, gang violence etc are certainly in that list.

Edited by st4 on Saturday 16th March 11:56

Sa Calobra

37,006 posts

210 months

Saturday 16th March 2019
quotequote all
st4 said:
Per head I am almost certain BAME males are much more likely to be involved in crime than non BAME. It's worth discussing.
Let's see the statistics to back your assumptions.

st4

1,359 posts

132 months

Saturday 16th March 2019
quotequote all
Sa Calobra said:
Let's see the statistics to back your assumptions.
https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/crime-justice-and-the-law/policing/number-of-arrests/latest

J4CKO

41,284 posts

199 months

Saturday 16th March 2019
quotequote all
Pistonheader101 said:
markcoznottz said:
Countdown said:
Hazuki said:
By 'innit bruvs' I'm guessing you mean they were Asian?

Would you therefore also class the kids by the same tag since they were also Asian?

I don't understand the point of your post. Black, white, Asian - the boy racers are complete and utter tts regardless.
I completely agree with you.

There are a minority of pretty vile posters on NP&E for whom it’s far more important to emphasise the race/religion/colour of the scum that did this and not really give a toss about the accident itself or the impact that it’s going to have on innocent families. As I said, its fairly vile but that’s the anonymity of the internet for you.

Going back to the OP - the punishments for causing Death by DD are pretty trivial. I think the absolute maximum is 14 years which means out in 7 on licence. Many will get sentenced in the lower bands and in some cases will be out in months rather than years.

The drivers are an absolute pair of thoughtless arrogant s. My heart goes out to the families of the victims.
It does matter because the entitled manner in which (usually) Pakistani young males have utter contempt for the law is cultural amongst an increasingly large subset of that community. Most Bentley owners don't go out racing at night, they go to Le Mans etc. Ticks all the boxes, no tax, illegal number plate, etc etc. Driver of the a3 ran off, no doubt he was banned/no licence etc etc. Same old same old. Some posters like brooking10 and countdown obviously take offence at some of the comments on these threads, the word 'vile' was used above, is saying 'innit' vile?

When we had the early 90's joyriding there was no attempt to hide the race of the individual, they were labelled chavs or scallys etc.
Bloody hell - you’re probably the type of guy who supports the christchurch shooting.
That is a bit of a leap to get to that conclusion.

Being so polar is what seems to be the problem, conflating that someone condones the murder of 49 innocent folk at worship with an assertion that a percentage of young Pakistani men have fast cars and drive them very fast with tragic consequences. More so than other groups of men at the same age for whatever reason, it isnt exclusive and young men have always been prone to over enthusiasm with cars, and nowadays there are a lot more fast cars available.

It is happening increasingly often, but best dont mention it as someone will scan your posts and shout "RACIST". I know Pakistani folk and they have said it themselves about "young dheads" charging round where they live so perhaps dont see it as us/them in terms of background, perhaps see it as us, those who drive safely and have a bit of fun when appropriate, and them, the people who drive like this in built up areas and have massive, fatal accidents.

For the record I dont think calling anyone "Innit Bruvs" or anything like that is helpful as that does introduce overtones, and almost a satisfaction that they have accurately predicted the ethnicity of those involved, using it to justify their wider views. I notice that posters on Facebook I know, who repost every misdemeanour reported by someone who is non white, are maintaining radio silence re the Christchurch atrocity.

These guys need some education and to see the potential consequences, they also need to be kept in check better by the Police, Bentley didnt have tax, what else was it missing ?


Sa Calobra

37,006 posts

210 months

Saturday 16th March 2019
quotequote all
st4 said:
Sa Calobra said:
Let's see the statistics to back your assumptions.
https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/crime-justice-and-the-law/policing/number-of-arrests/latest
12 white in every 1,000
Versus 14 Asian every 1,000 Asian are arrested.

Just two difference.



And yet when you look at the conviction rate what does that say about racism?


https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk...

st4

1,359 posts

132 months

Saturday 16th March 2019
quotequote all
Sa Calobra said:
And yet when you look at the conviction rate what does that say about racism?


https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk...
That they're guilty as charged.

Sa Calobra

37,006 posts

210 months

Saturday 16th March 2019
quotequote all
That's right, the white percentages are higher.

Therefore you are agree. Throughout all the conviction rates bar weapons white conviction rates are higher than Asian.

Yet Asians are arrested slightly more.

st4

1,359 posts

132 months

Saturday 16th March 2019
quotequote all
Sa Calobra said:
12 white in every 1,000
Versus 14 Asian every 1,000 Asian are arrested.

Just two difference.



And yet when you look at the conviction rate what does that say about racism?


https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk...
Look at the "Black" part...

2 difference in a 12-14 is quite significant also. HTH

Which tallies up with the crime rates and knife crime in London. Diversity is not always a good thing. Do these stats include terrorism also?

Tim bo

1,956 posts

139 months

Saturday 16th March 2019
quotequote all
J4CKO said:
That is a bit of a leap to get to that conclusion.

Being so polar is what seems to be the problem, conflating that someone condones the murder of 49 innocent folk at worship with an assertion that a percentage of young Pakistani men have fast cars and drive them very fast with tragic consequences. More so than other groups of men at the same age for whatever reason, it isnt exclusive and young men have always been prone to over enthusiasm with cars, and nowadays there are a lot more fast cars available.

It is happening increasingly often, but best dont mention it as someone will scan your posts and shout "RACIST". I know Pakistani folk and they have said it themselves about "young dheads" charging round where they live so perhaps dont see it as us/them in terms of background, perhaps see it as us, those who drive safely and have a bit of fun when appropriate, and them, the people who drive like this in built up areas and have massive, fatal accidents.

For the record I dont think calling anyone "Innit Bruvs" or anything like that is helpful as that does introduce overtones, and almost a satisfaction that they have accurately predicted the ethnicity of those involved, using it to justify their wider views. I notice that posters on Facebook I know, who repost every misdemeanour reported by someone who is non white, are maintaining radio silence re the Christchurch atrocity.

These guys need some education and to see the potential consequences, they also need to be kept in check better by the Police, Bentley didnt have tax, what else was it missing ?
Well said sir.

Sa Calobra

37,006 posts

210 months

Saturday 16th March 2019
quotequote all
st4 said:
Look at the "Black" part...

2 difference in a 12-14 is quite significant also. HTH

Which tallies up with the crime rates and knife crime in London. Diversity is not always a good thing. Do these stats include terrorism also?
But we arent talking about black we were talking about Asian.

Why twist the narrative to gain more percentage and divert attention?

More white percentages are convicted than Asian.

So how does that support the Asians are more likely to be in the wrong? Shall we repost?..


I hate racists whether they are open or veiled. There's nothing wrong with Asians.

As for the tax above. Pop into any area and you'll see countless untaxed cars daily.

Again why twist to make out Asian males are lawless?