RE: Mazda MX-5 1.5 (ND): PH Fleet

[Mercury00]

This is the one I'd have: Smaller wheels so a bit more agile, smaller engine so more rewarding to keep on the boil. Simple is best.

[Dust]

np1 said:

It's a shame you're not testing it with the Mazda lowering kit (Eibachs). It makes a huge improvement to the handling without compromising the suppleness of the ride . I did 6 months with my 1.5/standard set up and was always underwhelmed with the handling, especially in the roundabouts, I've now done an additional 30 months 40,000 miles with the lowering kit installed, had no problems and now the roundabouts are the highlights of the commute. Considering the relatively low price of the install, it's a no-brainer.

Edited by np1 on Wednesday 20th March 17:02

This right here is the million dollar piece of advice. It's true that the ND doesn't excel in steering feel. So when you put it on skinny tyres, and standard 'wallow mode' springs, you're not going anywhere. There simply isn't enough feeling in the front end (through the steering) to allow you to feel the edge of traction, and when the car rolls about (as it does on standard springs), it all gets a bit disconcerting (and definitely not encouraging you to push on) rather quickly.

But... there is a way to deal with all of this and turn this car into something pretty amazing, within the limits of what modern day cars are.

Step one is said lowering kit (springs). I believe they are actually H&R springs, re-sold as OEM accessory - it's the Sports model dampers that are Eibach. Come to think of it, for where we're headed those are probably advisable as well. Next step, fit sticky tyres on 17". We don't care about wheel size, as the front-end feel will anyway not come our way. The best I could find outside of track spec are Michelin Pilot Super Sports. Far more grip than the Bridgestone OEM tyres. Lastly, I advise a louder exhaust, but that's of course not changing the handling - it's just that a boomier note fits the new (intended) character of your car better.

Now essentially, what this does is that you're suddenly playing to the car's strengths. You don't search for front end grip, because you won't run out anyway. You put your faith in the light weight, unerringly accurate steering (one thing this setup is good at) and flat, reliable, consistent handling. The dampers make the car really connect to the road, and the springs keep you level, both of which adds to the feeling of this super nimble, infinite grip pebble that is skipping across the road, never at rest, but always in perfect control. And when you push it out of a corner, those PSS tyres combined with the limited slip diff (yes, mine's a 2.0) won't have you hanging the tail out (which is stupidity on a public road anyhow), but will do what a diff like that is actually supposed to do: allow you to get out of the corners without worrying about traction. So suddenly you are in a serious sports car. Which is also why I like an exhaust that makes it sound a bit more grown up (even if the overall sound isn't necessarily better than the stock exhaust), as well as the 2.0 for that gruntier, more serious feel (and LSD).

The 1.5 is pretty sweet though I agree, but that's for a different kind of driving (Elan imitation - light, floaty, rolly, comfortable), but as has been pointed out at that point the lack of steering feel rather dampens the fun factor.

As for the new 2.0 engine, I've driven it back to back with the original, and there isn't much in it. It was a new car, but prior to break in it never felt faster than a pre-facelift with some miles on. It was nice to rev it out another 1.000 rpm though, which is really the only flaw of the original 2.0 (if you just drive it on intuition, you run into the limiter).

[justa1972]

The pre-face lift 2.0 does need time to run in - mine has 8,000 on the clock now and its much nicer than it was new. Definitely quicker.

[Simon Owen]

Dust said:

np1 said:

It's a shame you're not testing it with the Mazda lowering kit (Eibachs). It makes a huge improvement to the handling without compromising the suppleness of the ride . I did 6 months with my 1.5/standard set up and was always underwhelmed with the handling, especially in the roundabouts, I've now done an additional 30 months 40,000 miles with the lowering kit installed, had no problems and now the roundabouts are the highlights of the commute. Considering the relatively low price of the install, it's a no-brainer.

Edited by np1 on Wednesday 20th March 17:02

This right here is the million dollar piece of advice. It's true that the ND doesn't excel in steering feel. So when you put it on skinny tyres, and standard 'wallow mode' springs, you're not going anywhere. There simply isn't enough feeling in the front end (through the steering) to allow you to feel the edge of traction, and when the car rolls about (as it does on standard springs), it all gets a bit disconcerting (and definitely not encouraging you to push on) rather quickly.

But... there is a way to deal with all of this and turn this car into something pretty amazing, within the limits of what modern day cars are.

Step one is said lowering kit (springs). I believe they are actually H&R springs, re-sold as OEM accessory - it's the Sports model dampers that are Eibach. Come to think of it, for where we're headed those are probably advisable as well. Next step, fit sticky tyres on 17". We don't care about wheel size, as the front-end feel will anyway not come our way. The best I could find outside of track spec are Michelin Pilot Super Sports. Far more grip than the Bridgestone OEM tyres. Lastly, I advise a louder exhaust, but that's of course not changing the handling - it's just that a boomier note fits the new (intended) character of your car better.

Now essentially, what this does is that you're suddenly playing to the car's strengths. You don't search for front end grip, because you won't run out anyway. You put your faith in the light weight, unerringly accurate steering (one thing this setup is good at) and flat, reliable, consistent handling. The dampers make the car really connect to the road, and the springs keep you level, both of which adds to the feeling of this super nimble, infinite grip pebble that is skipping across the road, never at rest, but always in perfect control. And when you push it out of a corner, those PSS tyres combined with the limited slip diff (yes, mine's a 2.0) won't have you hanging the tail out (which is stupidity on a public road anyhow), but will do what a diff like that is actually supposed to do: allow you to get out of the corners without worrying about traction. So suddenly you are in a serious sports car. Which is also why I like an exhaust that makes it sound a bit more grown up (even if the overall sound isn't necessarily better than the stock exhaust), as well as the 2.0 for that gruntier, more serious feel (and LSD).

The 1.5 is pretty sweet though I agree, but that's for a different kind of driving (Elan imitation - light, floaty, rolly, comfortable), but as has been pointed out at that point the lack of steering feel rather dampens the fun factor.

As for the new 2.0 engine, I've driven it back to back with the original, and there isn't much in it. It was a new car, but prior to break in it never felt faster than a pre-facelift with some miles on. It was nice to rev it out another 1.000 rpm though, which is really the only flaw of the original 2.0 (if you just drive it on intuition, you run into the limiter).

Concur with a lot of this and I would agree that things can be improved but only to a point, the EPAS system and chassis stiffness are not easy fixes !! It's difficult to say how much each contributes that lack of feeling 'loaded up' mid corner ? ... and depending on your point of view there are many many positives about the ND as a package but I would recommend caution in regards to expectations on this aspects of the package.

We run one (in BBR S200 guise) and revel in the good bits of which there are many, it really is a hoot to potter about in and we find it fab at say lightweight fast road touring round the Highlands. Put it back to back against a well set up GT88 by way of an example though and the difference in steering precision, steering feel, chassis stiffness and general confidence approaching the limits of grip is shocking. The Toyota is in a completely different league and I don't think this really gets reported on enough in the 100's of twin tests between the two !!. EVO did hint at this point this month if you read between the lines.

Chassis stiffness is what it is I guess but the fact that Mazda didn't have a class leading EPAS system is a real disappointment. Note I'm in the camp where EPAS can be perfectly acceptable as I know not everybody agrees with ..

[edo111s]

After 2 Elises used as daily drivers, and a GT86 , I am now on my 2nd ND 2.0. The current one is the 184bhp higher revving.
I had also driven the 1.5 a couple of time.
The current 2.0 is just soo good. And with lowered springs the handling improved greatly.

I can’t think of anything better in its price range.

Though perhaps a brake upgrade will be nice for track ... going to check at Snetterton soon ...