RE: BMW M3 (E90): PH Fleet
Discussion
Car-Matt said:
Cant think of many high revving V8 mass production cars since the no lead legislation on 2011.....care to share them?
Why 2011, the S65 was made in 2007? Is this only an issue on S65's made after 2011? At any rate during the S65's time you've had Audi S4\S5, RS4, lots of American v8 engines rev to 7k+rpm, . Lexus have had a few v8's that rev high too to name a few, none of which as far as I am aware have bearing issues. Just saying others have managed to make a high strung v8 without this issue so it is possible.
Guvernator said:
Why 2011, the S65 was made in 2007? Is this only an issue on S65's made after 2011?
At any rate during the S65's time you've had Audi S4\S5, RS4, lots of American v8 engines rev to 7k+rpm, . Lexus have had a few v8's that rev high too to name a few, none of which as far as I am aware have bearing issues. Just saying others have managed to make a high strung v8 without this issue so it is possible.
2011 is important because this is when the lead content was eliminated from the bearings........you still haven't provided any post 2011 examples of high volume V8's that rev as high or have the same (or higher) specific output, you've said there are many others but i'm still trying hard to think of them...At any rate during the S65's time you've had Audi S4\S5, RS4, lots of American v8 engines rev to 7k+rpm, . Lexus have had a few v8's that rev high too to name a few, none of which as far as I am aware have bearing issues. Just saying others have managed to make a high strung v8 without this issue so it is possible.
Car-Matt said:
2011 is important because this is when the lead content was eliminated from the bearings........you still haven't provided any post 2011 examples of high volume V8's that rev as high or have the same (or higher) specific output, you've said there are many others but i'm still trying hard to think of them...
But the S65 was made in 2007 so surely we should be comparing it against engines of it's time who would have also faced the same lead bearing issue? I am aware most modern cars don't use highly strung N\A v8's but that's more to do with emissions more than anything although Lexus still use one on the the LF-C\RF-C whatever it's called these days.He may have a point.
Ford Mustang 5.2 8250 rpm - flat plane crank, a couple of Ferrari V8s which may not be mass-produced per se but there are enough of them knocking (or not) about, and of course they have a flat-plane crank.
Maybe the previous theory is correct, and it's to do with the crank balance, which would affect the distribution of BMEP on the bearings. It might also explain why there are 3 revisions of the crankshaft.
Ford Mustang 5.2 8250 rpm - flat plane crank, a couple of Ferrari V8s which may not be mass-produced per se but there are enough of them knocking (or not) about, and of course they have a flat-plane crank.
Maybe the previous theory is correct, and it's to do with the crank balance, which would affect the distribution of BMEP on the bearings. It might also explain why there are 3 revisions of the crankshaft.
Car-Matt said:
Guvernator said:
There have been some great highly strung engines which are reliable, Honda having many notable examples. It is more than possible IF you don't cut corners.
Cant think of many high revving V8 mass production cars since the no lead legislation on 2011.....care to share them?B8 RS4/RS5
RCF/GSF
Guvernator said:
No he only wants v8's cars made after 2011 for some strange reason.
Of which the Audi B8 is one. 
Revs to over 8K as well ....Here's a 2014 example but there are many more in the classifieds from 2011 onwards.
jeremyc said:
f which the Audi B8 is one. Revs to over 8K as well ....
Here's a 2014 example but there are many more in the classifieds from 2011 onwards.
A whole 1 example? Wow, not the many that Guvernator was claiming.......2011 is key as that's when the EU exemption for lead in bearings was rescinded...... Revs to over 8K as well ....Here's a 2014 example but there are many more in the classifieds from 2011 onwards.
I'm not defending BMW at all, but IMO they were almost unique in producing a V8 revving 8400 rpm at 105bhp per litre on a mass produced car
As I said looks like a good reason Merc decided to go with bigger capacity V8's for their Halo models at the time
Shiv_P said:
Ferrari 458 - Jewelery compared to a BMW engine, not what i'd refer to as mass production like an M3 and certainly costing a lot more
B8 RS4/RS5 - Similar agreed - hardly the epitome of reliability themselves but yes ONE example - not MANY as claimed
RCF/GSF - Larger capacity, lower RPM
B8 RS4/RS5 - Similar agreed - hardly the epitome of reliability themselves but yes ONE example - not MANY as claimed
RCF/GSF - Larger capacity, lower RPM
Car-Matt said:
A whole 1 example? Wow, not the many that Guvernator was claiming.......2011 is key as that's when the EU exemption for lead in bearings was rescinded......
I'm not defending BMW at all, but IMO they were almost unique in producing a V8 revving 8400 rpm at 105bhp per litre on a mass produced car
As I said looks like a good reason Merc decided to go with bigger capacity V8's for their Halo models at the time
I was claiming that there where quite a few reliable high revving cars at the time the S65 was available including a few highly strung V8's which didn't have this issue, I didn't mention anything about engines made after 2011, you brought that into it.I'm not defending BMW at all, but IMO they were almost unique in producing a V8 revving 8400 rpm at 105bhp per litre on a mass produced car
As I said looks like a good reason Merc decided to go with bigger capacity V8's for their Halo models at the time
Guvernator said:
I was claiming that there where quite a few reliable high revving cars at the time the S65 was available including a few highly strung V8's which didn't have this issue, I didn't mention anything about engines made after 2011, you brought that into it.
Because its pertinent, after this time you cant use lead in the bearings......have you been reading the thread? High revving 4 pots are not the same as high revving v8's either. You have to compare apples with apples. Fact is there aren't any other comparable V8's except the B8 RS4 which is blighted by top end problemsShiv_P said:
Ares said:
Lovely car/Lovely engine.....but these mechanical dramas when the engine is barely run in, is another reason why highly tuned NA engines are slowly being replaced by turbo lumps.
b
ks, it was just a crap piece of design. Honda, Toyota, lexus etc all manage itArmaghMan said:
Guvernator said:
10k miles for tyres? What are they made of, chocolate? I've owned quite a few performance cars previously, never had to change my tyres after 10k.
Does Miss Daisy enjoy her time with you?If you're getting 10k miles out if your tyres on a performance car sell it.
Car-Matt said:
Because its pertinent, after this time you cant use lead in the bearings......have you been reading the thread? High revving 4 pots are not the same as high revving v8's either. You have to compare apples with apples. Fact is there aren't any other comparable V8's except the B8 RS4 which is blighted by top end problems
There are the other engines I mentioned which were around at the same time as the S65 like the Lexus one and various American engines as well as the Audi so not really a fact that there wasn't anything comparable at the time but please continue to distort them or move the goalposts as you see fit.Guvernator said:
Car-Matt said:
Because its pertinent, after this time you cant use lead in the bearings......have you been reading the thread? High revving 4 pots are not the same as high revving v8's either. You have to compare apples with apples. Fact is there aren't any other comparable V8's except the B8 RS4 which is blighted by top end problems
There are the other engines I mentioned which were around at the same time as the S65 like the Lexus one and various American engines as well as the Audi so not really a fact that there wasn't anything comparable at the time but pleaser continue to distort them or move the goalposts as you see fit. What examples of a 8400rpm plus revving V8's with 105bhp or more per litre were fitted to mass production cars at that time.......bar the B8 RS4 we have established no others so far, we're still waiting for the many others.......
Guvernator said:
So it's now gone from highly strung V8 of which I've given you a few examples several times to a very specific it HAS to rev to 8400rpm and have over 100bhp per litre. There go those goalposts again. 
Its what i've said all along you winker, Apples with Apples....my post at 12.04 said with the same or higher specific output ( that means bhp per litre....)You do realise a 5.0 V8 with 80 ish bhp per litre at 7300 rpm isn't highly strung compared to the BMW don't you.......
Edited by Car-Matt on Thursday 18th April 14:43
Car-Matt said:
Its what i've said all along you winker, Apples with Apples
You do realise a 5.0 V8 with 80 ish bhp per litre at 7300 rpm isn't highly strung compared to the BMW don't you.......
Hmm your obviously either a BMW fanboy or very angry at something. Think I'll leave you to it.You do realise a 5.0 V8 with 80 ish bhp per litre at 7300 rpm isn't highly strung compared to the BMW don't you.......
Guvernator said:
Car-Matt said:
Its what i've said all along you winker, Apples with Apples
You do realise a 5.0 V8 with 80 ish bhp per litre at 7300 rpm isn't highly strung compared to the BMW don't you.......
Hmm your obviously either a BMW fanboy or very angry at something. Think I'll leave you to it.You do realise a 5.0 V8 with 80 ish bhp per litre at 7300 rpm isn't highly strung compared to the BMW don't you.......
I have only ever pointed out that BMW were fairly unique in offering this type of engine compared to Merc for example who used a bigger capacity less stressed V8 for their Halo models, and i'd rather have the C63 Wagon any day of the week for the record than the E9x M3.
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