RE: Honda NSX-R: PH Heroes
Discussion
Water Fairy said:
Derek Chevalier said:
Water Fairy said:
Reading between the lines it sounds like this is a pain in the ass driving on real roads at real speeds tbh.
Seems a lot stiffer at the front vs standardhttps://www.nsxprime.com/wiki/Suspension#Spring_ra...
Arsecati said:
yonex said:
But when manufacturers build something like a GT86 nobody buys one?
Too true. We buy cars we can't drive just to satisfy an ego, yet we leave cars we can really, truly enjoy on a daily basis, sit on the garage forecourt.
Some of us do!Pretty much exactly for the reasons stated.
I have no interest in swapping the NSX for a new one either - it's simply too much car for me.
1O6Rallye said:
There was a chap out in one of these on a recent trackday, it looked spectacular even if it wasn't all that fast.
I'd rather have been in the drivers seat of the NSX than my (objectively) quicker modern hatchback!
Which track did you go to and how was the FK8? Keen to do some this year when I get the chance.I'd rather have been in the drivers seat of the NSX than my (objectively) quicker modern hatchback!
Derek Chevalier said:
Which track did you go to and how was the FK8? Keen to do some this year when I get the chance.
This event was a Bedford Autodrome one, a good track for learning to pedal an unfamiliar car due to it being pretty much impossible to have an accident!When I took the FK8 last year, there were an awful lot of rather surprised drivers in considerably more expensive and 'faster' machinery
There's one very very long straight where the big boy cars leave the hatchbacks for dead, but there's plenty of twisties after that to catch back up on.
The FK8 at a wet Cadwell Park, was pretty much unstoppable.
I really like the FK8, but I'd still rather cane an NSX round a circuit!
1O6Rallye said:
Derek Chevalier said:
Which track did you go to and how was the FK8? Keen to do some this year when I get the chance.
This event was a Bedford Autodrome one, a good track for learning to pedal an unfamiliar car due to it being pretty much impossible to have an accident!When I took the FK8 last year, there were an awful lot of rather surprised drivers in considerably more expensive and 'faster' machinery
There's one very very long straight where the big boy cars leave the hatchbacks for dead, but there's plenty of twisties after that to catch back up on.
The FK8 at a wet Cadwell Park, was pretty much unstoppable.
I really like the FK8, but I'd still rather cane an NSX round a circuit!
I'm undecided on whether I'd want to take an NSX on a circuit. Hideous replacement panel costs and the current valutions aside aside, I think the brakes may complain after spirited driving and think it gets pretty lively beyond the limit!
We're taking both the NSX and Civic to Europe this summer so hopefully have a chance for some side by side acceleration runs.
13.6 seconds for a front wheel drive car is brutally quick.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45lH73kbRVI
Limpet said:
big_rob_sydney said:
It's just semantics, for sure, but these older vehicles are obsoleted. The experience may not be, sure, but the car itself is. And for what it's worth, cars used to be started using hand cranks, many cars had wind up windows, carbs were popular, cars came without seat belts, and stability control / traction control has become popular. I don't miss the time when vehicles were primitive, and am thankful for all the advances, and I genuinely hope more come in the future.
To me, these old cars are a nice reminder, but they are dinosaurs.
I get what you are saying, but I think it depends what the car is for. To get in and drive every day, modern stuff is way superior to anything that's gone before. Unprecedented levels of easily accessible performance, sensible fuel economy on most things now (even my 3.0 turbo petrol BMW will see 40 mpg on a motorway run), hardly ever need servicing, don't use fluids, start in all weathers, and the electronics help you avoid having an accident if you, or someone else on the road, does something daft, or get caught napping. You also have lots of toys to keep you entertained on a long run, and the chances are, if you look after it, and service it according to the manufacturer's recommendations, you will be able to stick it on a dyno at 150,000 miles, and it will still produce the factory claimed power.To me, these old cars are a nice reminder, but they are dinosaurs.
No equivalent from 20+ years ago can do this
But, a "toy" (like the NSX-R in the article, or any of the other older stuff being talked about here) isn't for that. It is for getting out of the garage on a nice day, and being driven solely for the purpose of driving and experiencing it, and interacting with it. For that, it surely becomes less about the objective stuff, and more about the subjective. The way the car feels, and makes you feel. The particular demands it makes on you as a driver, and purely emotional qualities of owning and operating it.
The undoubted progress that modern stuff represents (and I 100% agree, it is progress) has come at a price, albeit one which many people won't notice or care about. The increasing refinement and isolation from the road surface that is so welcome on a long schlep up the country to a meeting, or carting the family around at weekends reduces the sense of connection between the car and the driver that you want when you are just going for a drive. The increasing technical sophistication that has enabled those great everyday qualities of reliability, outright performance and fuel economy has effectively banished owners from being involved in the maintenance of their cars, partly through lack of necessity, and partly through the prohibitive levels of technical knowledge and kit needed to do so. Again, many (most) people won't care, hence why new cars still fly out of the showrooms, but when I think back to my early driving career, fettling and working on my own cars definitely added to the bond that I felt with the car.
Modern stuff really is brilliant (and better than old stuff), but it's almost aloof compared to older stuff.
Edited by Limpet on Monday 15th April 12:22
I don't have the time these days for a toy, and even if I did, I'd probably be looking at another s1000rr instead of a fast car, for a whole bunch of reasons. So for now, I'm in daily driver mode, and the "modern" bulletproof family chariot is where we're at. As such, a 20 year old toy with whatever reliability concerns it may have (not to mention only 2 seats possibly), wouldn't rate above a modern family oriented car, sadly.
big_rob_sydney said:
As such, a 20 year old toy with whatever reliability concerns it may have
Possibly tempting fate, but my NSX has only let me down once in over 9 years / 34k miles. Upon leaving the Applecross Inn after lunch it was dead as a doornail. Turned out the Bealach Na Ba had shaken the positive battery cable loose. One 10mm spanner later and we were moving again! A modern classic is as reliable as your maintenance schedule, in many cases. A modern exec car can easily throw an electronic wobbly and leave you stranded by the side of a motorway (as I've heard from many people...disproportionately Jags and RRs, but German marques too...)
I appreciate the desire for something 'straightforward' when you've a superbike in the stable - most cars pale alongside one of them. But my view has always been that life's too short for boring cars...and so much modern machinery is boring when viewed against even 10y.o. metal*, let alone a proper performance classic.
*E90 M3, same-era C63, E60 M5, gen-1 Panamera V8, Megane R26, Clio 200, FD2 Civic Type R, Lexus IS-F...
motor mad said:
Jethro Bovingdon’s comparison between the new NSX and the NSX-R is one of my favourite car reviews on the web. He sums up the NSX-R up pretty well saying he’d take an NSX-R over an F40.
That's because the F40 would be spectacularly difficult to live with - the NSX-R would be simply spectacular all round.paulyv said:
A little off-topic so forgive me, but most NSX's I see in person have the auto gearbox. Is the auto in any way a performance auto box with rapid shifts/aggressive gearing or is it very much a standard auto of its time? Always wondered.
The auto comes with a detuned engine and is only a 4 speed - not really what the NSX is about IMO.Derek Chevalier said:
paulyv said:
A little off-topic so forgive me, but most NSX's I see in person have the auto gearbox. Is the auto in any way a performance auto box with rapid shifts/aggressive gearing or is it very much a standard auto of its time? Always wondered.
The auto comes with a detuned engine and is only a 4 speed - not really what the NSX is about IMO.Emphasises the GT character of the car at the expense of the 'sports' character, and robs you of a very enjoyable level of involvement.
havoc said:
Derek Chevalier said:
paulyv said:
A little off-topic so forgive me, but most NSX's I see in person have the auto gearbox. Is the auto in any way a performance auto box with rapid shifts/aggressive gearing or is it very much a standard auto of its time? Always wondered.
The auto comes with a detuned engine and is only a 4 speed - not really what the NSX is about IMO.Emphasises the GT character of the car at the expense of the 'sports' character, and robs you of a very enjoyable level of involvement.
Now not that these things are important, as its an old car of course, and speed isn't so important when hot hatches reach 60 in the 4s - but 0-60 in 7.2 seconds for the automatic is (slow) step too far also.
I *will* have a >'98 manual NSX in my life. Reckon i can do it in about 2022, by which time i doubt value would have shifted much to be honest - 60k upwards gets you a decent one it seems.
Derek Chevalier said:
1O6Rallye said:
Derek Chevalier said:
Which track did you go to and how was the FK8? Keen to do some this year when I get the chance.
This event was a Bedford Autodrome one, a good track for learning to pedal an unfamiliar car due to it being pretty much impossible to have an accident!When I took the FK8 last year, there were an awful lot of rather surprised drivers in considerably more expensive and 'faster' machinery
There's one very very long straight where the big boy cars leave the hatchbacks for dead, but there's plenty of twisties after that to catch back up on.
The FK8 at a wet Cadwell Park, was pretty much unstoppable.
I really like the FK8, but I'd still rather cane an NSX round a circuit!
I'm undecided on whether I'd want to take an NSX on a circuit. Hideous replacement panel costs and the current valutions aside aside, I think the brakes may complain after spirited driving and think it gets pretty lively beyond the limit!
We're taking both the NSX and Civic to Europe this summer so hopefully have a chance for some side by side acceleration runs.
13.6 seconds for a front wheel drive car is brutally quick.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45lH73kbRVI
havoc said:
big_rob_sydney said:
As such, a 20 year old toy with whatever reliability concerns it may have
Possibly tempting fate, but my NSX has only let me down once in over 9 years / 34k miles. Upon leaving the Applecross Inn after lunch it was dead as a doornail. Turned out the Bealach Na Ba had shaken the positive battery cable loose. One 10mm spanner later and we were moving again! A modern classic is as reliable as your maintenance schedule, in many cases. A modern exec car can easily throw an electronic wobbly and leave you stranded by the side of a motorway (as I've heard from many people...disproportionately Jags and RRs, but German marques too...)
I appreciate the desire for something 'straightforward' when you've a superbike in the stable - most cars pale alongside one of them. But my view has always been that life's too short for boring cars...and so much modern machinery is boring when viewed against even 10y.o. metal*, let alone a proper performance classic.
*E90 M3, same-era C63, E60 M5, gen-1 Panamera V8, Megane R26, Clio 200, FD2 Civic Type R, Lexus IS-F...
I've not met the standard road car yet that can see off a bmw s1000rr; if you have a look, you'll see the bmw s1000rr vs veyron videos, and the bike wins. That's more than good enough for me. Added to the outright performance, the ease through traffic, park anywhere, reasonable fuel economy, and warranty / no hassle, and I just find it "easier" to get my kicks that way compared to messing about with some ridiculously compromised car trying to emulate a bike.
big_rob_sydney said:
To be fair, Honda have a pretty decent reputation for reliability. In fact, I place Japanese cars right up there, above all others in that regard.
I've not met the standard road car yet that can see off a bmw s1000rr; if you have a look, you'll see the bmw s1000rr vs veyron videos, and the bike wins. That's more than good enough for me. Added to the outright performance, the ease through traffic, park anywhere, reasonable fuel economy, and warranty / no hassle, and I just find it "easier" to get my kicks that way compared to messing about with some ridiculously compromised car trying to emulate a bike.
A well driven lightweight like a Caterfield isn’t too hard to dispatch a bike. Straight line, no, but hey ho. I've not met the standard road car yet that can see off a bmw s1000rr; if you have a look, you'll see the bmw s1000rr vs veyron videos, and the bike wins. That's more than good enough for me. Added to the outright performance, the ease through traffic, park anywhere, reasonable fuel economy, and warranty / no hassle, and I just find it "easier" to get my kicks that way compared to messing about with some ridiculously compromised car trying to emulate a bike.
big_rob_sydney said:
To be fair, Honda have a pretty decent reputation for reliability. In fact, I place Japanese cars right up there, above all others in that regard.
I've got a 19 year old Accord Type R and did a few track days in in last year and it didn't miss a beat. The engine just takes it in it's stride. If ony the brakes were as strong....
Lucky enough to own an na2 r and gt3. Take the Nsx r everytime. Nothing feels as involving. Lucky enough to be in a circle of friends with some of the most exotic pieces of metal on the planet. They all have had a go in the R. All blown away. Its not about straight line speed.
Mine gets used properly. Been to spa a few times. Its an animal. Most negative comments are simply by people who don't understand what a driver's car is.
Mine gets used properly. Been to spa a few times. Its an animal. Most negative comments are simply by people who don't understand what a driver's car is.
havoc said:
Derek Chevalier said:
paulyv said:
A little off-topic so forgive me, but most NSX's I see in person have the auto gearbox. Is the auto in any way a performance auto box with rapid shifts/aggressive gearing or is it very much a standard auto of its time? Always wondered.
The auto comes with a detuned engine and is only a 4 speed - not really what the NSX is about IMO.Emphasises the GT character of the car at the expense of the 'sports' character, and robs you of a very enjoyable level of involvement.
https://drivetribe.com/p/does-an-automatic-gearbox...
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