RE: Diesel duo confirmed for Audi S5

[culpz]

I think it's definitely a shame. The S6/S7 I can understand a bit more but the S5, especially in coupe 'guise, is a definite low-blow.

A friend of mine has recently bought an S5 Sportback and it's a lovely thing. The exhaust sounds great for a standard system too!

[culpz]

Leon R said:

wab172uk said:

Ultrafunkula said:

Puts clear water between the S and the RS, anyway.

Which is a shame, as I think the S cars are better than the RS cars. Almost as quick in the real world, but a chunk less money to buy. Better mpg, and less likely to get nicked.

Will any of those qualities be lost?

If you don't want/need a diesel, then the simple answer is yes.

[culpz]

Ultrafunkula said:

Puts clear water between the S and the RS, anyway.

Why now though? That's what I don't get. It seems daft that Audi have only just come to this conclusion now after doing things differently for the last how many years previously.

[Dale487]

Diesel S6, I kind of get, but diesel S5 (particularly the coupe) just is just plain wrong - I understand diesel has better range (which is a concern for some people), lower CO2 (but the tax incentives have/are disappearing) & more torque (but turbo petrol engines have a nicer delivery and rev range). But I've always felt this about diesel coupes & convertibles - they're like flying business class to stay in a budget hotel at your destination (a compromise I wouldn't make).

[E65Ross]

Dale487 said:

Diesel S6, I kind of get, but diesel S5 (particularly the coupe) just is just plain wrong - I understand diesel has better range (which is a concern for some people), lower CO2 (but the tax incentives have/are disappearing) & more torque (but turbo petrol engines have a nicer delivery and rev range). But I've always felt this about diesel coupes & convertibles - they're like flying business class to stay in a budget hotel at your destination (a compromise I wouldn't make).

I agree, it's why I don't see the appeal in any luxury/executive car with a diesel engine, unless doing monstrous miles.

[JD]

I guess this means the S3 will be faster? And also the only ‘S’ model with a petrol engine?

As I’m sure I posted in the S6 thread, VW really are up against it with these emissions quotas.

I guess they have to weigh up declining trust in diesel against fleet average CO2.

[GTEYE]

E65Ross said:

Dale487 said:

Diesel S6, I kind of get, but diesel S5 (particularly the coupe) just is just plain wrong - I understand diesel has better range (which is a concern for some people), lower CO2 (but the tax incentives have/are disappearing) & more torque (but turbo petrol engines have a nicer delivery and rev range). But I've always felt this about diesel coupes & convertibles - they're like flying business class to stay in a budget hotel at your destination (a compromise I wouldn't make).

I agree, it's why I don't see the appeal in any luxury/executive car with a diesel engine, unless doing monstrous miles.

It’s never done BMW any harm. There’s nothing undesirable about a 435d or an M550d so why not here? They are not sports cars, really grand tourers.

Edited by GTEYE on Wednesday 17th April 17:33

[Dale487]

E65Ross said:

Dale487 said:

Diesel S6, I kind of get, but diesel S5 (particularly the coupe) just is just plain wrong - I understand diesel has better range (which is a concern for some people), lower CO2 (but the tax incentives have/are disappearing) & more torque (but turbo petrol engines have a nicer delivery and rev range). But I've always felt this about diesel coupes & convertibles - they're like flying business class to stay in a budget hotel at your destination (a compromise I wouldn't make).

I agree, it's why I don't see the appeal in any luxury/executive car with a diesel engine, unless doing monstrous miles.

Well that's two of us - I thought I was going to get slated for putting my head above the parapet on this one.

[GTEYE]

Dale487 said:

E65Ross said:

Dale487 said:

Diesel S6, I kind of get, but diesel S5 (particularly the coupe) just is just plain wrong - I understand diesel has better range (which is a concern for some people), lower CO2 (but the tax incentives have/are disappearing) & more torque (but turbo petrol engines have a nicer delivery and rev range). But I've always felt this about diesel coupes & convertibles - they're like flying business class to stay in a budget hotel at your destination (a compromise I wouldn't make).

I agree, it's why I don't see the appeal in any luxury/executive car with a diesel engine, unless doing monstrous miles.

Well that's two of us - I thought I was going to get slated for putting my head above the parapet on this one.

And let’s not forget HAVE to get their fleet CO2 average to 95g/km in 2 years.

So I guess it’s diesel S5 or no S5...

[Leon R]

culpz said:

Leon R said:

wab172uk said:

Ultrafunkula said:

Puts clear water between the S and the RS, anyway.

Which is a shame, as I think the S cars are better than the RS cars. Almost as quick in the real world, but a chunk less money to buy. Better mpg, and less likely to get nicked.

Will any of those qualities be lost?

If you don't want/need a diesel, then the simple answer is yes.

How?

Almost as quick as the RS in the real world? Yep.

Less money than the RS? Check.

Better MPG? Yes.

Less likely to be stolen? Debatable but certainly no more likely.

I get that if you don't want a diesel then you now have to look elsewhere but none of the parameters listed exclude diesel vehicles.

[legless]

ChezzaV8 said:

I then took the S5 out and was actually pretty dissappointed. It's got a god awful tiptronic gearbox instead of a dual clutch and it totally ruined the car.

Just shows how people have different opinions/experiences of things.

The 'god awful tiptronic gearbox' is the ubiquitous ZF 8HP70 torque converter autobox, widely praised as one of the best gearboxes on the market. Personally speaking, it's one of the reasons to have the S4/S5 over the 2.0 TFSI. Having driven both extensively, I'd take the ZF box every time.

[MrGTI6]

legless said:

ChezzaV8 said:

I then took the S5 out and was actually pretty dissappointed. It's got a god awful tiptronic gearbox instead of a dual clutch and it totally ruined the car.

Just shows how people have different opinions/experiences of things.

The 'god awful tiptronic gearbox' is the ubiquitous ZF 8HP70 torque converter autobox, widely praised as one of the best gearboxes on the market. Personally speaking, it's one of the reasons to have the S4/S5 over the 2.0 TFSI. Having driven both extensively, I'd take the ZF box every time.

Totally agree. The ZF torque-converter auto is leagues ahead.

[Pumpsmynads]

This thread is PH bingo gold already.
iPad reference. Check.
Diesel in a coupe. Check.
Death of Audi S. Check.
All we need now is someone to tell us we can buy an 8 year old Porsche for the same money.

[silentbrown]

Pumpsmynads said:

All we need now is someone to tell us we can buy an 8 year old Porsche for the same money.

You can buy a *new* Macan S for less!

... which, incidentally has the basically the same 3,0 Turbo as the outgoing S5. And an S-tronic gearbox.

[va1o]

Very surprised that they've gone diesel for these given it's looked like VAG have been moving away from diesel models for the past couple of years. So this represents a slight U-Turn!

I can definitely see the appeal having owned the original V8 S5 and subsequently selling it as the running costs were excessive. So having similar performance on offer with much better MPG is an attractive proposition for sure. But it is slightly slower than the current petrol S5 which can do 0-62mph in 4.7sec which they conveniently don't mention in the press article

Also where has the Cabriolet gone? That's the one I'd go for...

[Maldini35]

S5 hasn’t been a decent steer for a while.
I drove a V6 Turbo to the Ring a few years ago and whilst excellent on the autobahn is was a mess dynamically on the twisty roads of the Ardennes - zero feedback, understeer and overactive ESP. It wasn’t dangerous just totally lacking in any sense of connection or fun.
Dropping in a diesel is no tragedy as it won’t handle any worse than it did, will probably still be superb on the motorway and will squeeze out some more mpg.




I must get some PH bingo points for:
‘Understeer’
‘No connection’
‘No fun’

(All true though sadly)

Edited by Maldini35 on Wednesday 17th April 19:55

[Ultrafunkula]

culpz said:

Ultrafunkula said:

Puts clear water between the S and the RS, anyway.

Why now though? That's what I don't get. It seems daft that Audi have only just come to this conclusion now after doing things differently for the last how many years previously.

Search me, I'd have thought a hybrid would make more sense if they wanted to change the engine.

[flatso]

Can you retract that retarded screen on top of the dash (like in the old A8)?
I think these screens that do not dissapear are the zenith of poor taste.

[Amanitin]

va1o said:

Very surprised that they've gone diesel for these

fleet average emission thing probably.
Speaking of which, how JLR are planning to comply, no idea

[akadk]

Amanitin said:

va1o said:

Very surprised that they've gone diesel for these

fleet average emission thing probably.
Speaking of which, how JLR are planning to comply, no idea

Have you not heard of the I-PACE? Yuno, World Car of The Year? First premium mainstream SUV....

V6 diesel suits the S5. It has never been a sports coupe, anyone who thinks that is a poor mans RS 5