Hows your old barge compare with newer metal
Discussion
Even on my 2001 Alfa 156 diesel, tyre noise is way above anything else. I can’t hear or feel the engine at 70. There is a bit of wind and external noise, but tyres come through really clearly.
If you’re going to add sound proofing, I’d be putting it on the back side of the wheel arch liners.
If you’re going to add sound proofing, I’d be putting it on the back side of the wheel arch liners.
Bennet said:
V6todayEVmanana said:
I've started adding sound deadening material...
What car is it that you are doing this to?The 2014 models got improved sound insulation as early models noted for being bad hence I thought I could do something about it.
First thing I did was change all for tyres to a low decibel rated set. I was going to add sound insulation to rear wheel arches but they were already insulated under the carpet so just did the boot floor.
I read in other thread that double glazing is rare ( s class) and has a few disadvantages (weight, deicing) so often cars have laminated class to improve sound.
Good to read everyone's thoughts and car experiences.
Read the Audi Q5 and Lexus LS600 have felt wheel arch lines to absorb tyre noise. I agree with replies stating that's the biggest noise source.
Too bad I can't rent these older cars and try them on the m25. ( I also travel the nasty section near Leatherhead).
ANy barge made in the last 25 years will be significantly better than your Giulietta for all aspects of NVH. Some modern C/D segment cars are very quiet but the vibration and harshness is often worse than even very elderly barges with proper (not 4 pot diesel) engines and sophisticated suspension setups and subframe isolation going on.
I doubt you can have much of an impact sticking in sound deadening?
I doubt you can have much of an impact sticking in sound deadening?
Rubber band tyres probably discount a new vehicle out silencing an older one. Look at those new Audis recently. The wheels looked like those crappy old Max Power cartoons.
I wonder how many people would switch if you offered them a few miles testing on 55 profile tyres. Then again maybe they'd rather go deaf and look 'cool'.
I wonder how many people would switch if you offered them a few miles testing on 55 profile tyres. Then again maybe they'd rather go deaf and look 'cool'.
Alex_225 said:
My daily car is a 2003 E320 diesel and to be fair it's a very quiet refined ride. I use it mostly on the motorway and apart from that shocking section of the M25 it's pretty quiet.
Eventually I'm aiming to replace it with an S350 which I'd assume is a step up in refinement. For now my E Class is quiet and comfortable, old school in terms of interior styling and lack of MP3/Bluetooth but otherwise it's got what I think it should. Cruise control, electric heated seats, parking sensors etc.
My 2006 E220 is very quiet on the motorway (16" wheels make a big difference), but my 2010 S-Class is an entirely different league. Eventually I'm aiming to replace it with an S350 which I'd assume is a step up in refinement. For now my E Class is quiet and comfortable, old school in terms of interior styling and lack of MP3/Bluetooth but otherwise it's got what I think it should. Cruise control, electric heated seats, parking sensors etc.
(BTW connect a £10 Bluetooth dongle via the aux-in socket in your glovebox and you're sorted for music/podcasts etc.)
longblackcoat said:
(BTW connect a £10 Bluetooth dongle via the aux-in socket in your glovebox and you're sorted for music/podcasts etc.)
I just did that on mine (albeit via a cable into the MMI socket rather that the aux in that my previous Merc had). It's basic but it works just fine.My e34 M5 was definitely more solid & well-built than my Z4M coupe. No creaks or knocks (unless something was broken), and very little wind/road noise considering it was brick-shaped.
The 'softer' materials (i.e. amaretta & cloth seats, leather trim) in the M5 vs all modern leather & hard surfaces of the Z4 probably helped somewhat.
The Z4 is a lot stiffer so I suppose there's are lot more NVH transmitted to the cabin - and there's no way I can take a hands-free call when I'm driving. I masked some of the rattles by fitting a loud exhaust and carbon intake
The 'softer' materials (i.e. amaretta & cloth seats, leather trim) in the M5 vs all modern leather & hard surfaces of the Z4 probably helped somewhat.
The Z4 is a lot stiffer so I suppose there's are lot more NVH transmitted to the cabin - and there's no way I can take a hands-free call when I'm driving. I masked some of the rattles by fitting a loud exhaust and carbon intake
AC43 said:
longblackcoat said:
(BTW connect a £10 Bluetooth dongle via the aux-in socket in your glovebox and you're sorted for music/podcasts etc.)
I just did that on mine (albeit via a cable into the MMI socket rather that the aux in that my previous Merc had). It's basic but it works just fine.So, better quality Bluetooth audio than most new cars.
With a Bluetooth adapter in the Nokia-shaped phone socket I had Bluetooth telephony too (although that seems to have failed and I can't find a replacement)
Sorry OP, bit of a diversion.
I find that the latest E-class is quieter than mine (comparing just the tyre and wind noise), the suspension seems to absorb potholes better, but the older E has a more "magic-carpet"-like ride quality due to the rather wafty and soft air suspension So that's an inter-generational comparison of the same car!
V6todayEVmanana said:
It's a 2012 Alfa Giulietta, like how it drives but the road noise is starting to bother me, my other car is a v6 so I don't mind engine noise.
The 2014 models got improved sound insulation as early models noted for being bad hence I thought I could do something about it.
First thing I did was change all for tyres to a low decibel rated set. I was going to add sound insulation to rear wheel arches but they were already insulated under the carpet so just did the boot floor.
I read in other thread that double glazing is rare ( s class) and has a few disadvantages (weight, deicing) so often cars have laminated class to improve sound.
Good to read everyone's thoughts and car experiences.
Read the Audi Q5 and Lexus LS600 have felt wheel arch lines to absorb tyre noise. I agree with replies stating that's the biggest noise source.
Too bad I can't rent these older cars and try them on the m25. ( I also travel the nasty section near Leatherhead).
Take the liners off and put insulation on the back of them. The insulation inside the car is trying to deaden the noise and vibration from energy hitting the steel shell of the car. If you can knock that energy down by 50% in the liner, then you will be winning. The Alfa 156 has big chunks of felt on the back of the liners - if these fall off it makes an appreciable difference to the racket in the car.The 2014 models got improved sound insulation as early models noted for being bad hence I thought I could do something about it.
First thing I did was change all for tyres to a low decibel rated set. I was going to add sound insulation to rear wheel arches but they were already insulated under the carpet so just did the boot floor.
I read in other thread that double glazing is rare ( s class) and has a few disadvantages (weight, deicing) so often cars have laminated class to improve sound.
Good to read everyone's thoughts and car experiences.
Read the Audi Q5 and Lexus LS600 have felt wheel arch lines to absorb tyre noise. I agree with replies stating that's the biggest noise source.
Too bad I can't rent these older cars and try them on the m25. ( I also travel the nasty section near Leatherhead).
Wheels are bigger which means tyres are generally bigger and lower profile which makes ride quality worse as well as increasing noise
Engines are generally smaller but working hard to produce similar or higher outputs (a smaller turbocharged engine vs the 4+ litres na v8s/v10's etc seen in big saloons until more recently). Gearboxes with more gears 7+ can help this if the ratios are suited for cruising etc
Tech and safety equipment is very heavy, wouldn't surprise me if sound deadening and ridiculously thick glass and body panels are sacrificed to save weight at cost to some refinement in terms of noise insulation
Engines are generally smaller but working hard to produce similar or higher outputs (a smaller turbocharged engine vs the 4+ litres na v8s/v10's etc seen in big saloons until more recently). Gearboxes with more gears 7+ can help this if the ratios are suited for cruising etc
Tech and safety equipment is very heavy, wouldn't surprise me if sound deadening and ridiculously thick glass and body panels are sacrificed to save weight at cost to some refinement in terms of noise insulation
My Lexus GS450 h was too quiet that it became too easy to fall asleep at the wheel. The Lexus LS460 on the right tyres is whisper quiet at motorway speeds in all weathers. No engine noise, little wind noise and very soothing as you cover he miles. Reliable too with no rattles and nothing goes wrong. heated and air cooled seats with a stinking Mark Levinson hi fi. Great on an eleven year old car. Never cars are less comfortable and certainly more noisy.
gizlaroc said:
Surely tyre noise is the main noise we hear these days?
Tyres can make/ruin a car for refinement.
I think you are right, I use a private hire car company for some trips and they have Mercedes E classes and one Lexus ES - the lexus is far more comfortable and quieter than the Mercs - the only thing even at motorway speeds you hear in the back is the tyres - but less so than the E class mercedes they also use.Tyres can make/ruin a car for refinement.
I have a Nissan Leaf Tekna- and I have to say its as comfortable as any Range Rover or S class I have had in the past. Ok range is a consideration, but it is quiet, vibration free so no thrumming in the background and all you get is a bit of tyre noise. People laugh when I say it's like driving an armchair around, and no Mercedes / Land rover main stealer servicing costs.
Pupbelly said:
Just sold a 2003 Lexus GS300 bought as a temporary chariot for a bit of luxury to transport my parents to my wedding. It was fully loaded with dual zone climate control, slide and tilt sunroof, touchscreen sat nav (factory fitted), electric, heated seats, auto lights, etc. it just oozed luxury and wafted along with its 3.0 straight six and autobox effortlessly. Everything about it was solid and with a reassuring muted thump as the doors shut not a tinny clang of modern cars.
Superb car and at 16 years old everything worked and it felt as tight as any new car - for what I paid it was stunning. Unfortunately we don't have room for three cars so it had to go after the wedding.
Shame - they're brilliant as is the LS.Superb car and at 16 years old everything worked and it felt as tight as any new car - for what I paid it was stunning. Unfortunately we don't have room for three cars so it had to go after the wedding.
I've had an LS430 and have an LS460 - both are properly quiet cars - but I've not had the chance to compare it to the new LS500h - a few road test articles mention it's refined but not especially so compared to the current competition. Sound deadening adds weight and cost - two things car makers want to get rid of to meet ever crazier emissions regulations.
I noticed this trend though might be true. I had a 2002 X5 to replace a 728i years back. I was a passenger in a new shape X6 and it was definitely noisier than my X5 from back in the day - I put that down to it being on 21 inch wheels rather than 17's and being a diesel over a petrol but it definitely wasn't nearly as refined and in many ways seemed a backward step over my 2002 model.
Edited by LexyLex on Friday 3rd May 12:48
Tyre noise probably the worst thing on my BMW E36, and that's on the original tiddly 15" alloys with 205/60 high profile tyres. Wind and engine noise don't seem so bad, but I've not driven anything 'premium' or newer than about 2005 so can't compare with the latest stuff.
Steering, gearchange, clutch and accelerator are all heavier than in newer cars, and there's markedly less brake servo assistance.
Oh, the stereo's crap too, but then the speakers are 24 years old.
Steering, gearchange, clutch and accelerator are all heavier than in newer cars, and there's markedly less brake servo assistance.
Oh, the stereo's crap too, but then the speakers are 24 years old.
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