Hows your old barge compare with newer metal
Discussion
One of my e38 750's had 16" balloons and half an inch thick buffalo hide and dual pane glass. I have yet to spend time in a quieter car.
Not comparable perhaps but a friend of mine has a 2 year old BMW F31 320d and while the engine is quiet (in the cabin that is, outside it sounds like a tumbledrier full of bricks) the road noise is horrendeous, would drive me bananas to buy a 40k car that's louder than a VW beetle inside.
Not comparable perhaps but a friend of mine has a 2 year old BMW F31 320d and while the engine is quiet (in the cabin that is, outside it sounds like a tumbledrier full of bricks) the road noise is horrendeous, would drive me bananas to buy a 40k car that's louder than a VW beetle inside.
Another Lexus LS owner here.
I've been in plenty of cars, and Lexus is the only luxury car I would ever consider. This thread is spot on; the older cars were built in a time where the saying comes from; "they don't make 'em like they used to".
By contrast, have a look at manufacturers these days trying to cut costs everywhere.
I've been in plenty of cars, and Lexus is the only luxury car I would ever consider. This thread is spot on; the older cars were built in a time where the saying comes from; "they don't make 'em like they used to".
By contrast, have a look at manufacturers these days trying to cut costs everywhere.
I have a 2005 BMW 645, it's fairly quiet at speed. I think the low revving V8 coupled with the relatively smooth shape work well together with decent amounts of insulation, I suppose it was also a pretty expensive car when new. You can hear the engine but it's a nice noise rather than the diesel grumble that's so normal now.
I also have a 2017 Nissan Navara pickup, and compared to the older pickups I've driven for work over the last 20 years or so it's amazing.
18" wheels coupled with high profile tyres, relatively soft suspension, comfy seats and reasonable amounts of power make it a good motorway muncher.
I've been really impressed by how quiet it is for a pickup, obviously the plastics are a bit agricultural and it's not what you could call sporty when the roads get twisty but it doesn't rattle and there isn't much wind noise or tyre roar.
I also have a 2017 Nissan Navara pickup, and compared to the older pickups I've driven for work over the last 20 years or so it's amazing.
18" wheels coupled with high profile tyres, relatively soft suspension, comfy seats and reasonable amounts of power make it a good motorway muncher.
I've been really impressed by how quiet it is for a pickup, obviously the plastics are a bit agricultural and it's not what you could call sporty when the roads get twisty but it doesn't rattle and there isn't much wind noise or tyre roar.
Many cars these days are engineered to a low price point and ride on non-exclusive platforms. Meaning the basically same platform is used on a base 15k Euro econo model and a base 50k Euro executive model. In addition a car engineered for 30k Euro base price but jazzed up to 80k Euro in its high-end incarnation is still a 30k Euro car. The spread between the naked base model and the fully equipped high-end version of the same model can be astonishing these days. But the experience in a car with 60k Euro naked base price with moderate options sold for 80k Euro will be better than a 30k Euro base price car optioned out to the same 80k Euro.
Aside from all that, large wheels and rubber-band tires don't help with NVH, as do - as mentioned above - these rough surfaces some jurisdictions utilize. Downsized 4-pots, Diesels, and non-sedan body shapes are also to be avoided. Compared to 10/15 years ago no upmarket manufacturer dares to build low-speed comfort cars. The dominance of German luxury brands with their high-speed Autobahn requirement has even reached traditional comfort brands like Lincoln.
Aside from all that, large wheels and rubber-band tires don't help with NVH, as do - as mentioned above - these rough surfaces some jurisdictions utilize. Downsized 4-pots, Diesels, and non-sedan body shapes are also to be avoided. Compared to 10/15 years ago no upmarket manufacturer dares to build low-speed comfort cars. The dominance of German luxury brands with their high-speed Autobahn requirement has even reached traditional comfort brands like Lincoln.
Pretty sure I am the only Lexus ES owner on PH! so here is a view from a 2019 Lexus owner.
Even though my car is an F sport version running on 19inch wheels it is beautifully quiet on the move. Lexus know their onions here, the bottom of the car is almost entirely covered in sound deadening material and their are 4 layers of sound deadening material in the front bulkhead. The front wings are lined with acoustic material. The windscreen and front windows are special acoustic glass. Doors have extra rubber sealing, it uses the active noise control system from the LS which cancels out certain frequencies using a cabin speaker etc etc, the list goes on and on. The Takumi luxury model has special 18inch sound deadening alloy wheels, there is a YouTube video of a guy hitting a wheel with a hammer and comparing it with a standard wheel, the difference in sound is huge. Build quality helps as well, there are no rattles or noise from trim panels .
The other thing to take into account is the hybrid drive train. In stop start traffic it runs mostly on electic power so no ICE engine noise. At speed it is also clever, the ES has a totally new version of the 300H drive train and engine. Driving at even motorway speeds and if you back off the throttle it will seamlessly cut to electric power and it has a new feature called active glide control which also manages the braking effect of the regenerative system so that you are effectively gliding along at high speed and coasting with no electric or ICE assistance..
How it compares to an older LS I’m not sure but the ES it is just so quiet and cosseting.
Now just to be a bit more PH, the other car I drive is a 2016 renaultsport megane Cup-s, i always keep the back seats folded down I can hear the akropovik pop!
Even though my car is an F sport version running on 19inch wheels it is beautifully quiet on the move. Lexus know their onions here, the bottom of the car is almost entirely covered in sound deadening material and their are 4 layers of sound deadening material in the front bulkhead. The front wings are lined with acoustic material. The windscreen and front windows are special acoustic glass. Doors have extra rubber sealing, it uses the active noise control system from the LS which cancels out certain frequencies using a cabin speaker etc etc, the list goes on and on. The Takumi luxury model has special 18inch sound deadening alloy wheels, there is a YouTube video of a guy hitting a wheel with a hammer and comparing it with a standard wheel, the difference in sound is huge. Build quality helps as well, there are no rattles or noise from trim panels .
The other thing to take into account is the hybrid drive train. In stop start traffic it runs mostly on electic power so no ICE engine noise. At speed it is also clever, the ES has a totally new version of the 300H drive train and engine. Driving at even motorway speeds and if you back off the throttle it will seamlessly cut to electric power and it has a new feature called active glide control which also manages the braking effect of the regenerative system so that you are effectively gliding along at high speed and coasting with no electric or ICE assistance..
How it compares to an older LS I’m not sure but the ES it is just so quiet and cosseting.
Now just to be a bit more PH, the other car I drive is a 2016 renaultsport megane Cup-s, i always keep the back seats folded down I can hear the akropovik pop!
Edited by Itsallicanafford on Saturday 4th May 04:21
I have a 2005 Landcruiser Amazon. The 4.2TD straight six is quite growly and agricultural (though smooths our and sounds nicer just under the 4.2k limit), but the body-on-frame construction reduces road noise to almost zero, and I like that. Except when I couldn’t even hear the inner brake pads had worn through and were scratching the disc - only heard it with the window down.
I had a 2009 Mondeo Titanium X Sport, which would corner like nothing else (really), but had so much road noise I tried insulating it, and wasn’t particularly successful.
My E34 M5’s had less road noise than the E39 530i I owned in between. The need to tighten wheel control and larger low profile wheels make a modern Audi A3 just unbearable. Motoring journos have a lot to answer for.
I had a 2009 Mondeo Titanium X Sport, which would corner like nothing else (really), but had so much road noise I tried insulating it, and wasn’t particularly successful.
My E34 M5’s had less road noise than the E39 530i I owned in between. The need to tighten wheel control and larger low profile wheels make a modern Audi A3 just unbearable. Motoring journos have a lot to answer for.
Itsallicanafford said:
Pretty sure I am the only Lexus ES owner on PH! so here is a view from a 2019 Lexus owner.
Even though my car is an F sport version running on 19inch wheels it is beautifully quiet on the move. Lexus know their onions here, the bottom of the car is almost entirely covered in sound deadening material and their are 4 layers of sound deadening material in the front bulkhead. The front wings are lined with acoustic material. The windscreen and front windows are special acoustic glass. Doors have extra rubber sealing, it uses the active noise control system from the LS which cancels out certain frequencies using a cabin speaker etc etc, the list goes on and on. The Takumi luxury model has special 18inch sound deadening alloy wheels, there is a YouTube video of a guy hitting a wheel with a hammer and comparing it with a standard wheel, the difference in sound is huge. Build quality helps as well, there are no rattles or noise from trim panels .
The other thing to take into account is the hybrid drive train. In stop start traffic it runs mostly on electic power so no ICE engine noise. At speed it is also clever, the ES has a totally new version of the 300H drive train and engine. Driving at even motorway speeds and if you back off the throttle it will seamlessly cut to electric power and it has a new feature called active glide control which also manages the braking effect of the regenerative system so that you are effectively gliding along at high speed and coasting with no electric or ICE assistance..
How it compares to an older LS I’m not sure but the ES it is just so quiet and cosseting.
Now just to be a bit more PH, the other car I drive is a 2016 renaultsport megane Cup-s, i always keep the back seats folded down I can hear the akropovik pop!
Thanks for this - older LS460 owner here. The ES is interesting but more than likely going to try stretch to an LS500h when I feel it's time to move the LS460 on. Although, I could take an ES, as like you the Lexus isn't the only car I own - S2 Elise owner when I want noise and proper fun. Bet that Megane is great fun Even though my car is an F sport version running on 19inch wheels it is beautifully quiet on the move. Lexus know their onions here, the bottom of the car is almost entirely covered in sound deadening material and their are 4 layers of sound deadening material in the front bulkhead. The front wings are lined with acoustic material. The windscreen and front windows are special acoustic glass. Doors have extra rubber sealing, it uses the active noise control system from the LS which cancels out certain frequencies using a cabin speaker etc etc, the list goes on and on. The Takumi luxury model has special 18inch sound deadening alloy wheels, there is a YouTube video of a guy hitting a wheel with a hammer and comparing it with a standard wheel, the difference in sound is huge. Build quality helps as well, there are no rattles or noise from trim panels .
The other thing to take into account is the hybrid drive train. In stop start traffic it runs mostly on electic power so no ICE engine noise. At speed it is also clever, the ES has a totally new version of the 300H drive train and engine. Driving at even motorway speeds and if you back off the throttle it will seamlessly cut to electric power and it has a new feature called active glide control which also manages the braking effect of the regenerative system so that you are effectively gliding along at high speed and coasting with no electric or ICE assistance..
How it compares to an older LS I’m not sure but the ES it is just so quiet and cosseting.
Now just to be a bit more PH, the other car I drive is a 2016 renaultsport megane Cup-s, i always keep the back seats folded down I can hear the akropovik pop!
Edited by Itsallicanafford on Saturday 4th May 04:21
I have a 2001 GS430 and for some reason every time my wife is a passenger she falls asleep - can be any time of the day but without fail !
Haven't driven a newer GS so can't comment and no point comparing it to my other cars as they are all in a different sector (XC60, IS-F, S40, V40 T4 track car).
Such a good car can't bear to sell it even though it only now gets used for 500 miles a year !
Haven't driven a newer GS so can't comment and no point comparing it to my other cars as they are all in a different sector (XC60, IS-F, S40, V40 T4 track car).
Such a good car can't bear to sell it even though it only now gets used for 500 miles a year !
chunder said:
I have a 2001 GS430 and for some reason every time my wife is a passenger she falls asleep - can be any time of the day but without fail !
Haven't driven a newer GS so can't comment and no point comparing it to my other cars as they are all in a different sector (XC60, IS-F, S40, V40 T4 track car).
Such a good car can't bear to sell it even though it only now gets used for 500 miles a year !
Don't - it's worth more as a car than it's value of sale just to have. It won't depreciate any more and has years of life left in it (these cars last like Mercedes of yesteryear) Haven't driven a newer GS so can't comment and no point comparing it to my other cars as they are all in a different sector (XC60, IS-F, S40, V40 T4 track car).
Such a good car can't bear to sell it even though it only now gets used for 500 miles a year !
How's the IS-F - bet that's fun. I drove the mk4 GS and thought it was very very nice but as I have the LS I am over the moon with that. The Mk4 GS kicked up more tyre roar than my LS which was to be expected but it was a more engaging and nimble drive - again to be expected.
davea18h said:
What's happened to the tyres they were developing that had a layer of foam or whatever it was on the underside which was supposed to be a very good road noise suppressant? A lot of the cars have much larger alloys and lower profile tyre which invariably make the car look so much better and give it a better stance but at what cost? The other big thing (or was...) from many years ago, Lotus was developing some sort of electronic noise cancellation technology that basically speaking, was anti phase to the noise entering the cabin?
Many cars have active noise cancellation - including my Leg End. It's very effective and lighter than sound-deadening, but the roar from the 245-section Yokos still remains.
Later cars (we never got them in the UK) had a string of plastic cups inside the wheel (in the tyre-fitting well) which supposedly made a big difference to the tyre noise. I do not know if that solution is more widely employed.
My E92 M3 was definitely quieter than my F80. I have to turn up the music just to cover the damn road noise in the F80.
I used to cruise in relative quiet in the E92 up and down the motorways with no music on apart from the noise of the V8. The F80 leaves my ears with that muffled sensation after driving for a couple of hours down the motorway, like after a night out clubbing. Not as bad as clubbing ear muffliness, but there nonetheless.
Both running Michelin supersport on the smallest OEM wheels.
My old Gen 1 BMW X1 is so refined and quiet compared to the F80.
I used to cruise in relative quiet in the E92 up and down the motorways with no music on apart from the noise of the V8. The F80 leaves my ears with that muffled sensation after driving for a couple of hours down the motorway, like after a night out clubbing. Not as bad as clubbing ear muffliness, but there nonetheless.
Both running Michelin supersport on the smallest OEM wheels.
My old Gen 1 BMW X1 is so refined and quiet compared to the F80.
My E39 535i with petrol V8, SE suspension and wheels was not as quiet on the motorway as my S212 E350 diesel estate with AMG suspension and wheels.
The ride was softer in the BMW but it was noisier than the Mercedes. I prefer the Mercedes as a long distance cruiser but the BMW was not far off.
The ride was softer in the BMW but it was noisier than the Mercedes. I prefer the Mercedes as a long distance cruiser but the BMW was not far off.
Road surfaces are crap.
i read that having a noisy surface on UK roads was a deliberate act, working on the idea that the noise would discourage drivers from speeding.
It hasn't worked!
Anyone wondered how much a rough surface road is costing drivers in abrading their tyres faster, a bit like running on coarse sandpaper rather than smooth?
There was a 3 mile trial on the A 4 near my house a few years ago, with a surface that was definitely quieter, and supposedly no worse for wear or grip. But we don't see it, just 'This road will be surface-dressed' notices, with more grit!
Aren't roads in Germany quiet? Anyone know? I certainly live with the A4 tyre hiss, plus the M5 a mile away noticeable, especially in the rain.
i read that having a noisy surface on UK roads was a deliberate act, working on the idea that the noise would discourage drivers from speeding.
It hasn't worked!
Anyone wondered how much a rough surface road is costing drivers in abrading their tyres faster, a bit like running on coarse sandpaper rather than smooth?
There was a 3 mile trial on the A 4 near my house a few years ago, with a surface that was definitely quieter, and supposedly no worse for wear or grip. But we don't see it, just 'This road will be surface-dressed' notices, with more grit!
Aren't roads in Germany quiet? Anyone know? I certainly live with the A4 tyre hiss, plus the M5 a mile away noticeable, especially in the rain.
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