RE: Porsche 911 Carrera S vs Audi R8 RWS: PH Video!

[Deep]

WCZ said:

The 911 is super boring, the turbo s might be okay though

If you’re not using the small rear seats then it’s hard to look past mclaren - and before people whine about new vs used blah blah, who cares - you can get an ultra low mileage one for the same price so it’s extreme comparable

Have you driven one or do you mean the styling is 'super boring'? I have a 991 Turbo S and imho the 992 C4S is in many ways MORE exciting to drive. The steering feels better so you can place the car more accurately, it feels lighter and changes direction better. It doesn't have that explosive power of the TTS but that's difficult to use on UK roads.

The two small seats are extremely useful, I can actually do the school run with two children when needed. They also double up as extra storage so I can easily do the shopping.

The 992 is fantastic to drive and can do all the practical things that most 'super cars' can't as well as having class leading residuals and not attracting too much attention.

Since I can't afford ten different cars, want to use my super car every day and don't want to lose £50k + in 12 months the MC just can't cut it (its a gorgeous looking thing though I'll admit)

To me the 992 is an absolute belter of a car.

[anonymous-user]

Deep said:

Have you driven one or do you mean the styling is 'super boring'?
and not attracting too much attention.
.

That's the trouble with a Porsche these days they just aren't special enough when going out in one, victim of their own success.

[av185]

Raygun said:

Deep said:

Have you driven one or do you mean the styling is 'super boring'?
and not attracting too much attention.
.

That's the trouble with a Porsche these days they just aren't special enough when going out in one, victim of their own success.

Rather depends on the Porsche.

[Helicopter123]

Is the Porsche expensive though?

I've a 1991 Autocar in front of me and a Porsche 911 Carrera 2 was £47,198 as standard.

According to the Bank of England Inflation calculator (link below) this should be £99,539 today.

Given that this is the S model, and all of the additional kit you get as standard these days, this one looks great value in a historic context.

By comparison, a Ferrari 348 was £69,400 so equivalent today should be £146,572. The 488 GTB is today £199,533.

https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetary-policy/in...

[AndrewD]

I’ve heard this from a few reviewers now, that the 992 needs to be pushed on a bit and at lower speeds is a little numb. Anybody who owns one and has had previous gen 911 care to comment?

Mind you, soon these cars will be all electric and that will probably be a whole new world of dull.

[86wasagoodyear]

Thanks for the commercial. Please make future vids less sycophantic. The only reason to choose this 911 over that R8 is the rear seats.

For a 911 that is involving & has truly instant throttle response, get a 997 or earlier. They're better cars full stop, and so much more fun. And you save yourself a packet.

[Carl_Manchester]

AndrewD said:

I’ve heard this from a few reviewers now, that the 992 needs to be pushed on a bit and at lower speeds is a little numb. Anybody who owns one and has had previous gen 911 care to comment?

Mind you, soon these cars will be all electric and that will probably be a whole new world of dull.

done a 992 2wd test drive, in comparison to a 997 it’s a completely different experience to drive. in comparison to a the early 991.1 demonstrator i drove at launch i think the 992 is a vast improvement. especially the interior.

I think the ‘dull’ commentary just stems from the fact that these are now very fast cars with a level of ability way beyond most drivers. You could argue this cycle started with the 997 Turbo.

Did i think the 992 was dull ? There was an element of that yes, like the 997 turbo the engine note does not seem to tally with what’s on the speedo unlike the way a 997 GTS or a 987 does.

There is also a nagging suspicion that anything this powerful with turbos needs 4wd to be usable and safe at speed in the wet, i would go for 4wd if i was ready to order a 992. Apparently the steering response is even more dull in the 4wd models.

[av185]

Carl_Manchester said:

Apparently the steering response is even more dull in the 4wd models.

Apart from the TTS, a 4wd 911 makes little sense imo.

Feedback is what it's about. And 4wd just dulls and dilutes the experience.

[C.MW]

av185 said:

Carl_Manchester said:

Apparently the steering response is even more dull in the 4wd models.

Apart from the TTS, a 4wd 911 makes little sense imo.

Feedback is what it's about. And 4wd just dulls and dilutes the experience.

For feedback (driver engagement), there is the Lotus Evora for you! The 911 since the debut of 991 has become the Golf of performance cars. By that I mean it is above average in every aspect but does not really excel at anything. For example, one can argue the R8, despite all its flaws, is better at sparking emotion of the driver than the 911.

[Carl_Manchester]

In years gone past i would agree but there is just too much power and torque now for it to make sense to me. I have accepted that car Civilisation peaked with the 997.2 and this latest car is not really a 911, it is something else to celebrate, it has such a luxurious feel and quality about it as a package.

and, i will add, the 992 is very first 911 Carrera S where you don’t need to tick a single box on the configurator. At least that is something to acknowledge - that Porsche is listening.

I wanted to challenge that £93k price tag but actually could not, it is a great car out of the box.

[jakesmith]

av185 said:

Apart from the TTS, a 4wd 911 makes little sense imo.

Feedback is what it's about. And 4wd just dulls and dilutes the experience.

It depends what you are trying to get out of the car. Not everyone buys a 997 to experience feedback, it might be really important or less important. I had a 997 C4S and appreciated the handling and traction in the wet, and the appearance of the wider body, and the planted feeling on acceleation that the AWD alledgedly gives over the RWD variants. Not everyone buys a car to experience the utmost in handling and drivetrain purity. Most cars make compromises in some areas to deliver improvements in others. If you are buying the car to use as day to day year round all weather transport the AWD makes sense. Not everyone buying a 997 can afford a TT or GT2.

[av185]

C.MW said:

The 911 since the debut of 991 has become the Golf of performance cars. By that I mean it is above average in every aspect but does not really excel at anything. For example, one can argue the R8, despite all its flaws, is better at sparking emotion of the driver than the 911.

You clearly have no experience of 991 911s.

[C.MW]

av185 said:

C.MW said:

The 911 since the debut of 991 has become the Golf of performance cars. By that I mean it is above average in every aspect but does not really excel at anything. For example, one can argue the R8, despite all its flaws, is better at sparking emotion of the driver than the 911.

You clearly have no experience of 991 911s.

Good if that makes you feel comfortable.

[BlackPrince]

av185 said:

You clearly have no experience of 991 911s.

I think its clear he's referring to non-GT 991s, and while his statement might be a bit hyperbolic, I understand where he is coming from broadly speaking. A decade ago I drove a 964 at 30 mph around the block and it was life-changing. Subsequent 911s I've driven have felt a bit dull (I've admittedly only tried the 'standard' cars and haven't experienced the GT models)

[FN2TypeR]

Audemars said:

The two ugliest sport cars ever made.

Unsurprisingly, those who like one often like the other. Its just the way some are programmed. A bit like men who like other men.

[jakesmith]

FN2TypeR said:

Audemars said:

The two ugliest sport cars ever made.

Unsurprisingly, those who like one often like the other. Its just the way some are programmed. A bit like men who like other men.

Says the man with a username named after the Honda Civic type R
What a thing of beauty they are

[cayman-black]

av185 said:

Carl_Manchester said:

Apparently the steering response is even more dull in the 4wd models.

Apart from the TTS, a 4wd 911 makes little sense imo.

Feedback is what it's about. And 4wd just dulls and dilutes the experience.

Not popular in the uk ,but over in middle Europe or Switzerland its a different story. I would always take the four wheel drive option.

cmoose, fully agree 997.2 GT3 over either of these.

Edited by cayman-black on Monday 6th May 08:20

Edited by cayman-black on Monday 6th May 08:21

[BlackPrince]

Audemars said:

The two ugliest sport cars ever made.

Unsurprisingly, those who like one often like the other. Its just the way some are programmed. A bit like men who like other men.

Does the way they look matter that much? You have a stunning garage but also a Lexus RX for some inscrutable reason (actually its very 'scrutable' but I'm being deliberately obtuse to prove a point). Presumably the RX serves a purpose for you in a way that an X5, GLE, et al., would not and the same goes for the Audi and the 911: what other sub £100k sports/supercar has a naturally aspirated engine? For the 911 there is no other sportscar which is as practical and useable as the 911 - several of my friends have kids that can fit in the backseats for example

[greenarrow]

Interesting reading all the comments. As a fan but non owner, I wonder isn't it the same with every new 911 launch going back decades. People complain the newer one is larger, more competent but less involving than the one before which provided a purer drive.

The only exception I can think of in recent years is the 997.1 Carrera S, which got 5 star reviews from the word go, winning every COTY gong out there, but then the 996 that preceded it never really got the love unless it was a turbo or GT3 version, which has reflected in used values. Even now you don't need a lot of cash to get into a 996, do you......I do find myself sorely tempted at times....

I remember initial reviews of the 991 were less than wholly positive, but by the end of its run, models such as the 991GTS were beating vastly more expensive rivals in group tests. I expect the same with the 992.

[kbf1981]

Raygun said:

Deep said:

Have you driven one or do you mean the styling is 'super boring'?
and not attracting too much attention.
.

That's the trouble with a Porsche these days they just aren't special enough when going out in one, victim of their own success.

There's two ways to see this.

I've had a Ferrari, Lamborghini, and a 911.... the Ferrari & Lamborghini were not practical daily drivers, simply because to go anywhere took ages. You'd have people trying to race you, stopping to talk to you when you filled up, and it all took time. They felt special, but were hugely inconvenient.

Sometimes you want a "special" daily driver - I know I do, because I work so much I don't get time to go on Sunday morning drives. My only driving time is with family on weekends (in which case, you need back seats for kids), or commuting to work. A 911 fits into that lifestyle perfectly where nothing else really does.

What other "special" car can you use everyday?

Must have 4 seats.
Must feel special but not make you a target.
Don't want something that depreciates £30k per year (like many AMG's do in their first year)

As lovely as many other 4 seaters are.... there's nothing that is:

1) As technically competent
2) Feels special yet can be used every day
3) Looks special but can be used every day
4) Holds it's value as well
5) Is relatively rare - a lot of people will say "no they're not", but I have yet to see another 992 out in the wild, and the only 911 I see regularly is my neighbours. Ultimately they only sell 3000 x 911's per year in the UK, and that's not a lot - there are 2.5m new cars registered in the UK each year, so 911's make up 0.0012% of all new car sales... - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42571828
6) Fits young children

The only other options are:
- Aston DBS / DB11 etc. - not as good, hemorage money
- Bentley GT - lovely car, but a slightly different thing (more GT than sports car)
- M3/4, RS4/5 etc... - always feels and looks like a 4 series / saloon car, as nice as they are, and again, hemorage money

A 911 is the fastest A-B 4 seater on a typical British road you can buy, that's also comfortable, and a lovely place to sit. It holds its value well, will always be a nice car, and you know exactly what you're getting into when you buy one (no mystery depreciation ala F-Type, Tesla, AMG, Aston etc). Plus they're just very good. My standard 992 C2S can crack 124mph in 10 seconds, and has a 7min24 Nurburing time....from a car that I can talk to, that has surround sound, and a heated steering wheel.