RE: Toyota GR Supra: Driven

[Scootersp]

300bhp/ton said:

What cutting edge technology did the MK IV have? The bi-turbo engine was interesting, but obviously missing on the non turbo variant.

Not many vehicles do have real cutting edge.....

But the Mkiv was a big deal for Toyota, I have an official Toyota 276 page book they brought out for dealer to explain the changes from the Mkiii.

[Scootersp]

[cerb4.5lee]

It will be interesting to see how well it sells, the GT86 isn't a massive seller(as far as I'm aware) but it offers a manual with modest power. Whereas the Supra is powerful enough but only has a slusher.

We need something in the middle from Toyota I think, and I'd love a Toyota GT86 with a Turbo/Super charger bolted to it for sure.

[J4CKO]

cerb4.5lee said:

It will be interesting to see how well it sells, the GT86 isn't a massive seller(as far as I'm aware) but it offers a manual with modest power. Whereas the Supra is powerful enough but only has a slusher.

We need something in the middle from Toyota I think, and I'd love a Toyota GT86 with a Turbo/Super charger bolted to it for sure.

Annnd we wouldnt buy that either, then demand something inbetween the GT86 and the new one in the middle.

Like the man that goes into the shop in Little Britain with some very specific demands, which are by some freak chance met, but then declares it to be not quite right on a minuscule technicality or subjective impression.

[CABC]

traffic, regulation, fashion are driving cars away from driving purists' ideals.

i see two possibilities for fun cars:
- compromised fun that panders to fashion and reality of daily grind.
- pure fun cars that will necessarily 2nd or 3rd vehicles. These are niche and under threat, maybe.

[300bhp/ton]

CaptainEejit said:

I quite like this car myself! I hope it is a bit of a sales success so there’s plenty in the 2nd hand market when it’s a little more my price range..

+1

CaptainEejit said:

I hope they have really considered the mod side of owning this car, what you can and can’t do before warranties are threatened would be quite important imo. I can’t think of a recent new car that is so overtly designed/priced to be modified.

I don’t much about these things (obviously) but does anyone know how much leeway you are given wrt modifying when you pcp/pch too? I’m guessing if it’s reversible it wouldnt affect their future values? Gonna get complicated!

Modding cars in the UK is much less of a thing. And certainly rare on newish cars. You see modded 350z's these days because they are relatively old and cheap. But when they were new you rarely did.

Likewise, I'm not sure very many MK IV Supra's were modded when new. Suspect most happened in the early 2000's.

[300bhp/ton]

Theo-v9obh said:

Nobody is saying this is not a nice little car, but by naming it 'Supra' the ethos being the best Japan has to offer which would roast Porsche's and Ferraris at a fraction of the price

The MK IV didn't do this. And early examples most certainly didn't. Sorry but you are either deluding yourself or living cloud cukcoo land.

Theo-v9obh said:

they have misled and dashed the hopes of those expecting Toyota to be faithful to the spirit of the original

Don't be daft, are you 8 or something...

They haven't mislead anyone.

BTW original looks like this!!!!



And it most certainly wasn't a Ferrari beater.

[Daston]

Will be interesting what they do with the JDM market, they offered the GT86 with steels and basic plastic bumpers for a knocked down price, as they knew certain customers would be ripping the bodywork off and slapping on the latest offerings from HKS etc.

The modding community is still very much alive in the UK much more than it was when the original Supra came out, it did not take long for modified GTR or GT86 to be common place at shows.

[300bhp/ton]

cerb4.5lee said:

It will be interesting to see how well it sells, the GT86 isn't a massive seller(as far as I'm aware)

I looked these up the other day to compare to the Ford Mustang. I was shocked at how few they seem to sell.

EUROPEAN CAR SALES

	GT86	BRZ	Mustang
2018	1251	452	9851
2017	1496	527	13,241

cerb4.5lee said:

but it offers a manual with modest power. Whereas the Supra is powerful enough but only has a slusher.

We need something in the middle from Toyota I think, and I'd love a Toyota GT86 with a Turbo/Super charger bolted to it for sure.

Considering they don't sell many, I'm amazed they have never done anything to try and bolster sales. A turbo version would cost almost nothing extra to produce as the engine is already turbocharged by Subaru.

And there are aftermarket supercharger kits. They could have done it as a mid life update, £1500 more on the price with 80hp more. And maybe reduce the price on the n/a version.

Even the finance deals have been pants everytime I've looked.

[Scootersp]

300bhp/ton said:

Theo-v9obh said:

Nobody is saying this is not a nice little car, but by naming it 'Supra' the ethos being the best Japan has to offer which would roast Porsche's and Ferraris at a fraction of the price

The MK IV didn't do this. And early examples most certainly didn't. Sorry but you are either deluding yourself or living cloud cukcoo land.

Theo-v9obh said:

they have misled and dashed the hopes of those expecting Toyota to be faithful to the spirit of the original

Don't be daft, are you 8 or something...

They haven't mislead anyone.

BTW original looks like this!!!!



And it most certainly wasn't a Ferrari beater.

You have sort of backed up his point...........the first one improved to the second and third, and the Mkiv was a big leap up and was the closest to the Porsche's and Ferrari's of any before it. Like they were constantly improving and challenging and moving the car up into the higher 'x' percentile of performance.

If they had replaced the Mkiv in 2000 it would have had to have been better and then again if updated 2009 better again, this one could have been the the Mkvi or Mkvii by now? If that had happened it would have been seen to have largely stood still in comparison to the competition over the same time period, basically the new one is not as near to the top of the 2019 performance range as the Mkiv was in 1993. It's not bespoke in design or parts and so whilst I get the sensibleness of what Toyota have done it's not hard to see that some feel it's not really faithful to the original(s)!

[Ares]

Scootersp said:

You have sort of backed up his point...........the first one improved to the second and third, and the Mkiv was a big leap up and was the closest to the Porsche's and Ferrari's of any before it. Like they were constantly improving and challenging and moving the car up into the higher 'x' percentile of performance.

Being closer to Porsches and Ferraris? In the same way the Vauxhall's Cavalier Turbo was the closest to Porsche and Ferrari?

[Ares]

markBXTR said:

Don't dislike it, but it's just far too heavy. Shame.

What should it weigh? Benchmark?

[cerb4.5lee]

300bhp/ton said:

cerb4.5lee said:

It will be interesting to see how well it sells, the GT86 isn't a massive seller(as far as I'm aware)

I looked these up the other day to compare to the Ford Mustang. I was shocked at how few they seem to sell.

EUROPEAN CAR SALES

	GT86	BRZ	Mustang
2018	1251	452	9851
2017	1496	527	13,241

cerb4.5lee said:

but it offers a manual with modest power. Whereas the Supra is powerful enough but only has a slusher.

We need something in the middle from Toyota I think, and I'd love a Toyota GT86 with a Turbo/Super charger bolted to it for sure.

Considering they don't sell many, I'm amazed they have never done anything to try and bolster sales. A turbo version would cost almost nothing extra to produce as the engine is already turbocharged by Subaru.

And there are aftermarket supercharger kits. They could have done it as a mid life update, £1500 more on the price with 80hp more. And maybe reduce the price on the n/a version.

Even the finance deals have been pants everytime I've looked.

Cheers for that.

I really like the GT86 and I like that it isn't that heavy and I like the styling too. I just don't think that the performance of it standard is enough for me personally. I'd snap up a Turbo or Super charged version for sure though.

With a Turbo on it-it would remind me of the favourite car that I've had...the 200SX.

[Scootersp]

Ares said:

Scootersp said:

You have sort of backed up his point...........the first one improved to the second and third, and the Mkiv was a big leap up and was the closest to the Porsche's and Ferrari's of any before it. Like they were constantly improving and challenging and moving the car up into the higher 'x' percentile of performance.

Being closer to Porsches and Ferraris? In the same way the Vauxhall's Cavalier Turbo was the closest to Porsche and Ferrari?

When I said closest I sort of meant matching, the Mkiv was as good as makes no different the same straight line performance as a Ferrari 348.

The 355 in 1994 was faster than the stock Supra, but a few psi and again it's the same. In 1993 the Mkiv was right up there and in 2019 it's not is my only point.

[Slow]

Scootersp said:

Ares said:

Scootersp said:

You have sort of backed up his point...........the first one improved to the second and third, and the Mkiv was a big leap up and was the closest to the Porsche's and Ferrari's of any before it. Like they were constantly improving and challenging and moving the car up into the higher 'x' percentile of performance.

Being closer to Porsches and Ferraris? In the same way the Vauxhall's Cavalier Turbo was the closest to Porsche and Ferrari?

When I said closest I sort of meant matching, the Mkiv was as good as makes no different the same straight line performance as a Ferrari 348.

The 355 in 1994 was faster than the stock Supra, but a few psi and again it's the same. In 1993 the Mkiv was right up there and in 2019 it's not is my only point.

You actually expected them to launch a 600+ bhp sports car?

Edit: the 488 has been replaced by the F8 tributo making 710bhp... it’s a 3.9 twin turbo doing 0-60 in under 3 seconds.

Don’t be daft to have even though the new Supra would be near those levels

Edited by Slow on Friday 17th May 15:24

[Rawwr]

Why do people think a new generation of model must have a scale of relation back to a previous model? Especially a Toyota!

[300bhp/ton]

Scootersp said:

Ares said:

Scootersp said:

You have sort of backed up his point...........the first one improved to the second and third, and the Mkiv was a big leap up and was the closest to the Porsche's and Ferrari's of any before it. Like they were constantly improving and challenging and moving the car up into the higher 'x' percentile of performance.

Being closer to Porsches and Ferraris? In the same way the Vauxhall's Cavalier Turbo was the closest to Porsche and Ferrari?

When I said closest I sort of meant matching, the Mkiv was as good as makes no different the same straight line performance as a Ferrari 348.

The 355 in 1994 was faster than the stock Supra, but a few psi and again it's the same. In 1993 the Mkiv was right up there and in 2019 it's not is my only point.

TBH you just seem to being unreasonable, with unrealistic expectations.

The Supra was quick, but was nowhere near as quick as a 911 Turbo of the same era.

And thusly today the new Supra is significantly quicker than the MK IV was stock for stock and easily on par or exceeding the similar priced Porsche offering in terms of acceleration stats.

[Scootersp]

300bhp/ton said:

TBH you just seem to being unreasonable, with unrealistic expectations.

The Supra was quick, but was nowhere near as quick as a 911 Turbo of the same era.

And thusly today the new Supra is significantly quicker than the MK IV was stock for stock and easily on par or exceeding the similar priced Porsche offering in terms of acceleration stats.

lol pot kettle.........

You said the guy was living in cloud cuckoo land, yet the only Porsche in 1993 faster than the Supra was the 911 turbo.

My point is not why must it be up there at the same comparative level is was in 1993 but it could be hence why some are disappointed (I have no real hard feeling either way). The R35 at launch was up there with the high end stuff, new engine new design etc, so the Supra could have been if they'd chosen to.

I've just seen another thread about the special edition M5.......this has 625bhp, the M5 in 1993 had the same as a Mkiv Supra. So do you see what I mean? is that unreasonable? Could Toyota have chosen to make something like that of course they could but they haven't taken on the upper echelons this time round that's all.

[Niffty951]

I'm so deeply disappointed. I'm going to become a one track record, bordering on militant over the no manual option in 'sports cars' issue.

"People don't want or buy manuals" yes they do! What is the point of a drivers car, a car with hard suspension and feeling of engagement when you can't engage with the drive train. The most fundamental component and pivotal in turning a two dimensional experience into one where the driver forms part of the machinery. On track more than anywhere you cannot get the same control over the car when you are separated from the controls by a layer of digital intervention, no matter how clever it may be.

Today if I want to drive a manual with a chassis and performance one level above the MX5, BRZ entry level experiences then my options are getting more and more limited.

M2 - Soggy body control, poor brakes.
718 Cayman - Soulless engine
Either Lotus V6 S model - A trip to le mans will feel like an endless journey that will leave me in pain for a week.

Anything else manual tends to be another level up in budget or more than a few years old. It's getting tough!

Edited by Niffty951 on Friday 17th May 21:14

[The Vambo]

Niffty951 said:

I'm so deeply disappointed. I'm going to become a one track record, bordering on militant over the no manual option in 'sports cars' issue.

"People don't want or buy manuals" yes they do!"

Edited by Niffty951 on Friday 17th May 21:14

Have you bought a new manual sports car in the last 10 years?

If not, for all the whining you are cause of your own misery.