RE: Toyota GR Supra: Driven
Discussion
janesmith1950 said:
I would imagine the BMW engine is far, far more fuel efficient than the old Toyota engine with much less onerous servicing requirements.
But maybe slightly lacking in character. That is a big deal for a sports car.I am encouraged though Toyota had a hand in the development/specification of the engine - they really do know reliability and durability better than anyone.
LexyLex said:
janesmith1950 said:
I would imagine the BMW engine is far, far more fuel efficient than the old Toyota engine with much less onerous servicing requirements.
But maybe slightly lacking in character. That is a big deal for a sports car.I am encouraged though Toyota had a hand in the development/specification of the engine - they really do know reliability and durability better than anyone.
BMW are much more renowned engine builders.
LexyLex said:
janesmith1950 said:
I would imagine the BMW engine is far, far more fuel efficient than the old Toyota engine with much less onerous servicing requirements.
But maybe slightly lacking in character. That is a big deal for a sports car.I am encouraged though Toyota had a hand in the development/specification of the engine - they really do know reliability and durability better than anyone.
And also, most Supras are now modified in some way nowadays, character is mainly down to noise which is a function of various factors, a production car is always going to have to be quieter than something with an aftermarket exhaust. otherwise its down to firing order, cam profiles, flywheel weight, bore, stroke and a load of other factors, but in the main areas they are the same configuration so conceivably they wont be a milion miles apart.
Olivera said:
So in comparison to a Mk4 TT Supra, that doesn't have had a straight 6, nor turbo, nor manual gearbox. The LC500 is also a colossal fat bd.
There's some crazy st on these new Supra threads.
A Mk4 Supra was no lightweight in it's day and was a pretty big car in it's day too. Not to mention price point - inflation adjustment brings in the Mk4 Supra more or less at the price of an LC500 now.There's some crazy st on these new Supra threads.
I imagine the LC500 is a less raw drive - but the Supra at the time was quite a sumptuous car.
Pommy said:
Toyota havent made an engine with character in...forever.
BMW are much more renowned engine builders.
Not so sure - even can quote PH at youBMW are much more renowned engine builders.
https://www.pistonheads.com/news/driven/lexus-gs-f...
" Keep it spinning - those shifter paddles need Sport or Sport Plus to assert themselves - and the upper half of the rev range really shows the GS F's hand. And by this point it starts feeling properly rapid, the thrilling lunge to the redline a standout feature these days."
LexyLex said:
Pommy said:
Toyota havent made an engine with character in...forever.
BMW are much more renowned engine builders.
Not so sure - even can quote PH at youBMW are much more renowned engine builders.
https://www.pistonheads.com/news/driven/lexus-gs-f...
" Keep it spinning - those shifter paddles need Sport or Sport Plus to assert themselves - and the upper half of the rev range really shows the GS F's hand. And by this point it starts feeling properly rapid, the thrilling lunge to the redline a standout feature these days."
Theres no Toyota model with that in it is there?
Pommy said:
But that engine is not available in a Toyota is it?
Theres no Toyota model with that in it is there?
Toyota make Lexus - the review is about a Lexus. Theres no Toyota model with that in it is there?
No not in any Toyota badged Toyotas- but my view that’s the engine that should be in the supra.
As it were you can go buy a better looking very lightly used Lexus RCF for the money - and that’s probably what I’d do.
LexyLex said:
Toyota make Lexus - the review is about a Lexus.
No not in any Toyota badged Toyotas- but my view that’s the engine that should be in the supra.
As it were you can go buy a better looking very lightly used Lexus RCF for the money - and that’s probably what I’d do.
Better looking - hmmNo not in any Toyota badged Toyotas- but my view that’s the engine that should be in the supra.
As it were you can go buy a better looking very lightly used Lexus RCF for the money - and that’s probably what I’d do.
RCF - hardly a sports car is it.
RemyMartin81D said:
Better looking - hmm
RCF - hardly a sports car is it.
Fit a set of coil overs and job jobbed. Whilst an RCF is heavier than the new Supra it’s not too far outwith the scope - especially if you’re after a Japanese performance car.RCF - hardly a sports car is it.
Now - to the big elephant in the room - how new a GTR can you get for the price of a new Supra. Different drive altogether but an altogether different step up in performance - and running costs.
kambites said:
Pommy said:
Toyota havent made an engine with character in...forever
The 2ZZ-GE isn't that old and is hardly dull. It revs to well over 8000rpm!LexyLex said:
Pommy said:
But that engine is not available in a Toyota is it?
Theres no Toyota model with that in it is there?
Toyota make Lexus - the review is about a Lexus. Theres no Toyota model with that in it is there?
No not in any Toyota badged Toyotas- but my view that’s the engine that should be in the supra.
As it were you can go buy a better looking very lightly used Lexus RCF for the money - and that’s probably what I’d do.
You seriously think a 5.0 V8 normally aspirated 87bhp per litre 222kg engine is the best engine for a reborn Supra?
Everyone is pissed that the new Supra has a BMW engine rather than a Toyota one when BMW are the ones consistently producing award winning, technologically advanced world class engines and Toyota are not.
Everyone is pissed that the new Supra has a BMW interior rather than a Toyota one when Toyota interiors are frankly st.
Id take a current BMW engine and interior over any current Toyota engine and interior every time.
Edited by Pommy on Saturday 18th May 23:19
Pommy said:
Everyone is pissed that the new Supra has a BMW engine rather than a Toyota one when BMW are the ones consistently producing award winning, technologically advanced world class engines and Toyota are not.
Everyone is pissed that the new Supra has a BMW interior rather than a Toyota one when Toyota interiors are frankly st.
Id take a current BMW engine and interior over any current Toyota engine and interior every time.
But if you don't try how can you achieve a comparable or even better engine? They must do something right for lotus to choose some of their engines? Everyone is pissed that the new Supra has a BMW interior rather than a Toyota one when Toyota interiors are frankly st.
Id take a current BMW engine and interior over any current Toyota engine and interior every time.
Edited by Pommy on Saturday 18th May 23:19
If BMW are top of the tree now it doesn't mean everyone else gives in surely?
I can imagine someone saying the same as you in 1992, as the mkiii suffered head gasket issues when BMW 'M' cars engines were sound and more powerful, then Toyota made the 2JZ and it was a lot better and a rival to the 'M' cars and AMG's etc.
Scootersp said:
Pommy said:
Everyone is pissed that the new Supra has a BMW engine rather than a Toyota one when BMW are the ones consistently producing award winning, technologically advanced world class engines and Toyota are not.
Everyone is pissed that the new Supra has a BMW interior rather than a Toyota one when Toyota interiors are frankly st.
Id take a current BMW engine and interior over any current Toyota engine and interior every time.
But if you don't try how can you achieve a comparable or even better engine? They must do something right for lotus to choose some of their engines? Everyone is pissed that the new Supra has a BMW interior rather than a Toyota one when Toyota interiors are frankly st.
Id take a current BMW engine and interior over any current Toyota engine and interior every time.
Edited by Pommy on Saturday 18th May 23:19
If BMW are top of the tree now it doesn't mean everyone else gives in surely?
I can imagine someone saying the same as you in 1992, as the mkiii suffered head gasket issues when BMW 'M' cars engines were sound and more powerful, then Toyota made the 2JZ and it was a lot better and a rival to the 'M' cars and AMG's etc.
Would be thinking Lotus use the engines due to supply/cost issues rather than it being the best engine. There are many more engines that would be above the Toyota engines if they were cost efficiently available.
My point isnt that BMW are top of the tree - they arent the best but they certainly hold their own in the engine making department.
The 2JZ started life in 1990 for their run of the mill bigger cars and morphed into a performance unit. It wasnt built originally as a performance engine for the Supra.
Toyota have a no win situation because if they really redid the Supra in almost exactly the same mould as the original people would have complained it is too expensive, too heavy and no one would have bought it even if the reviews loved it.
What people want is a remake of the original thats as quick as a GT-R, looks like a DB11, handles like an Exige, has the reliability of a Corolla, the interior of an Lexus LC, the weight of an Atom, the engine and tunability of the original Supra at the same cost as a Mustang. It doesnt exist, cant exist and people are surprised.
Edited by Pommy on Sunday 19th May 01:17
I get exactly what you are saying it's just a shame they have taken that line, but I accept they are a business trying to make money at the end of the day and think this is the best way.
The point re the JZ being in the soarer/aristo/gs300 is true and then Lexus weren't really around or just starting. They could have done the same today with one of the numerous large capacity normally aspirated Lexus engines around, but they haven't perhaps to not tread on top end Lexus shoes? I don't know?
Basically all cars are flawed and I agree lots would moan about one or other aspect regardless of collaboration or sole Toyota design I just think having your top model effectively a tweaked version of another manufacturers car is a little bit of a cop out.
Other manufacturers 'waste' money on niche cars (Honda) so why not Toyota?
The point re the JZ being in the soarer/aristo/gs300 is true and then Lexus weren't really around or just starting. They could have done the same today with one of the numerous large capacity normally aspirated Lexus engines around, but they haven't perhaps to not tread on top end Lexus shoes? I don't know?
Basically all cars are flawed and I agree lots would moan about one or other aspect regardless of collaboration or sole Toyota design I just think having your top model effectively a tweaked version of another manufacturers car is a little bit of a cop out.
Other manufacturers 'waste' money on niche cars (Honda) so why not Toyota?
Pommy said:
rallycross said:
forzaminardi said:
I / how much it'll cost in Australia?
1 million auzzie dollars! (not much then).Im in Oz and have a bit of chat about $85k plus on roads so probably $100k for the firsts ones after taxes and mark ups.
Quite a restricted supply i understand so probabl1y even overs with a likely few chancers at $120k...
https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/moto...
Hmm, thats a lot.
Not for me! The front looks like a MX5, the rear looks like a man squinting, banana yellow? Really? The side shot does it some justice but it can't take away that god awful rear end. I know you can say you won't see it when you're driving it, but I need a pretty sports car sat on my drive if I am to buy one.
I am sure the 'Supra' badge will have sales soaring.
Just my opinion and thoughts
I am sure the 'Supra' badge will have sales soaring.
Just my opinion and thoughts
Niffty951 said:
Would love one but at £90k we're back into the big budget market. I'm looking at less that half that. £40k would be a stretch. (I appreciate this is less than the equivalent market value of a new 944 turbo but I still think 90k relative to the average wage has moved the bar from 1990
Curious where are you getting £90k from? Just looked and they are $55k starting price. I’d think you should be able to land one in the UK for £55-60k depending on the exact route you take. Still a lot of money. But ballpark to the Supra. Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff