RE: Toyota GR Supra: Driven

RE: Toyota GR Supra: Driven

Author
Discussion

anonymous-user

53 months

Saturday 18th May 2019
quotequote all
I would imagine the BMW engine is far, far more fuel efficient than the old Toyota engine with much less onerous servicing requirements.

LexyLex

207 posts

59 months

Saturday 18th May 2019
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janesmith1950 said:
I would imagine the BMW engine is far, far more fuel efficient than the old Toyota engine with much less onerous servicing requirements.
But maybe slightly lacking in character. That is a big deal for a sports car.

I am encouraged though Toyota had a hand in the development/specification of the engine - they really do know reliability and durability better than anyone.

Pommy

14,229 posts

215 months

Saturday 18th May 2019
quotequote all
LexyLex said:
janesmith1950 said:
I would imagine the BMW engine is far, far more fuel efficient than the old Toyota engine with much less onerous servicing requirements.
But maybe slightly lacking in character. That is a big deal for a sports car.

I am encouraged though Toyota had a hand in the development/specification of the engine - they really do know reliability and durability better than anyone.
Toyota havent made an engine with character in...forever.

BMW are much more renowned engine builders.

J4CKO

41,286 posts

199 months

Saturday 18th May 2019
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LexyLex said:
janesmith1950 said:
I would imagine the BMW engine is far, far more fuel efficient than the old Toyota engine with much less onerous servicing requirements.
But maybe slightly lacking in character. That is a big deal for a sports car.

I am encouraged though Toyota had a hand in the development/specification of the engine - they really do know reliability and durability better than anyone.
I agree on the second point, but the first one is a bit subjective.

And also, most Supras are now modified in some way nowadays, character is mainly down to noise which is a function of various factors, a production car is always going to have to be quieter than something with an aftermarket exhaust. otherwise its down to firing order, cam profiles, flywheel weight, bore, stroke and a load of other factors, but in the main areas they are the same configuration so conceivably they wont be a milion miles apart.

Olivera

7,065 posts

238 months

Saturday 18th May 2019
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LexyLex said:
. For me, the spiritual successor to the Mk4 Supra is the LC500.
So in comparison to a Mk4 TT Supra, that doesn't have had a straight 6, nor turbo, nor manual gearbox. The LC500 is also a colossal fat bd.

There's some crazy st on these new Supra threads.

LexyLex

207 posts

59 months

Saturday 18th May 2019
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Olivera said:
So in comparison to a Mk4 TT Supra, that doesn't have had a straight 6, nor turbo, nor manual gearbox. The LC500 is also a colossal fat bd.

There's some crazy st on these new Supra threads.
A Mk4 Supra was no lightweight in it's day and was a pretty big car in it's day too. Not to mention price point - inflation adjustment brings in the Mk4 Supra more or less at the price of an LC500 now.

I imagine the LC500 is a less raw drive - but the Supra at the time was quite a sumptuous car.

LexyLex

207 posts

59 months

Saturday 18th May 2019
quotequote all
Pommy said:
Toyota havent made an engine with character in...forever.

BMW are much more renowned engine builders.
Not so sure - even can quote PH at you

https://www.pistonheads.com/news/driven/lexus-gs-f...

" Keep it spinning - those shifter paddles need Sport or Sport Plus to assert themselves - and the upper half of the rev range really shows the GS F's hand. And by this point it starts feeling properly rapid, the thrilling lunge to the redline a standout feature these days."


Pommy

14,229 posts

215 months

Saturday 18th May 2019
quotequote all
LexyLex said:
Pommy said:
Toyota havent made an engine with character in...forever.

BMW are much more renowned engine builders.
Not so sure - even can quote PH at you

https://www.pistonheads.com/news/driven/lexus-gs-f...

" Keep it spinning - those shifter paddles need Sport or Sport Plus to assert themselves - and the upper half of the rev range really shows the GS F's hand. And by this point it starts feeling properly rapid, the thrilling lunge to the redline a standout feature these days."
But that engine is not available in a Toyota is it?

Theres no Toyota model with that in it is there?


LexyLex

207 posts

59 months

Saturday 18th May 2019
quotequote all
Pommy said:
But that engine is not available in a Toyota is it?

Theres no Toyota model with that in it is there?
Toyota make Lexus - the review is about a Lexus.

No not in any Toyota badged Toyotas- but my view that’s the engine that should be in the supra.

As it were you can go buy a better looking very lightly used Lexus RCF for the money - and that’s probably what I’d do.

RemyMartin81D

6,759 posts

204 months

Saturday 18th May 2019
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LexyLex said:
Toyota make Lexus - the review is about a Lexus.

No not in any Toyota badged Toyotas- but my view that’s the engine that should be in the supra.

As it were you can go buy a better looking very lightly used Lexus RCF for the money - and that’s probably what I’d do.
Better looking - hmm
RCF - hardly a sports car is it.

kambites

67,461 posts

220 months

Saturday 18th May 2019
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Pommy said:
Toyota havent made an engine with character in...forever
The 2ZZ-GE isn't that old and is hardly dull. It revs to well over 8000rpm!

LexyLex

207 posts

59 months

Saturday 18th May 2019
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RemyMartin81D said:
Better looking - hmm
RCF - hardly a sports car is it.
Fit a set of coil overs and job jobbed. Whilst an RCF is heavier than the new Supra it’s not too far outwith the scope - especially if you’re after a Japanese performance car.

Now - to the big elephant in the room - how new a GTR can you get for the price of a new Supra. Different drive altogether but an altogether different step up in performance - and running costs.

Pommy

14,229 posts

215 months

Saturday 18th May 2019
quotequote all
kambites said:
Pommy said:
Toyota havent made an engine with character in...forever
The 2ZZ-GE isn't that old and is hardly dull. It revs to well over 8000rpm!
It came out initially in 1999...

LexyLex said:
Pommy said:
But that engine is not available in a Toyota is it?

Theres no Toyota model with that in it is there?
Toyota make Lexus - the review is about a Lexus.

No not in any Toyota badged Toyotas- but my view that’s the engine that should be in the supra.

As it were you can go buy a better looking very lightly used Lexus RCF for the money - and that’s probably what I’d do.
But this thread is about the Toyota Supra using a BMW engine not a Lexus using a BMW engine and youre advocating the Supra use a Lexus engine.

You seriously think a 5.0 V8 normally aspirated 87bhp per litre 222kg engine is the best engine for a reborn Supra?

Everyone is pissed that the new Supra has a BMW engine rather than a Toyota one when BMW are the ones consistently producing award winning, technologically advanced world class engines and Toyota are not.

Everyone is pissed that the new Supra has a BMW interior rather than a Toyota one when Toyota interiors are frankly st.

Id take a current BMW engine and interior over any current Toyota engine and interior every time.

Edited by Pommy on Saturday 18th May 23:19

Scootersp

3,107 posts

187 months

Sunday 19th May 2019
quotequote all
Pommy said:
Everyone is pissed that the new Supra has a BMW engine rather than a Toyota one when BMW are the ones consistently producing award winning, technologically advanced world class engines and Toyota are not.

Everyone is pissed that the new Supra has a BMW interior rather than a Toyota one when Toyota interiors are frankly st.

Id take a current BMW engine and interior over any current Toyota engine and interior every time.

Edited by Pommy on Saturday 18th May 23:19
But if you don't try how can you achieve a comparable or even better engine? They must do something right for lotus to choose some of their engines?

If BMW are top of the tree now it doesn't mean everyone else gives in surely?

I can imagine someone saying the same as you in 1992, as the mkiii suffered head gasket issues when BMW 'M' cars engines were sound and more powerful, then Toyota made the 2JZ and it was a lot better and a rival to the 'M' cars and AMG's etc.





Pommy

14,229 posts

215 months

Sunday 19th May 2019
quotequote all
Scootersp said:
Pommy said:
Everyone is pissed that the new Supra has a BMW engine rather than a Toyota one when BMW are the ones consistently producing award winning, technologically advanced world class engines and Toyota are not.

Everyone is pissed that the new Supra has a BMW interior rather than a Toyota one when Toyota interiors are frankly st.

Id take a current BMW engine and interior over any current Toyota engine and interior every time.

Edited by Pommy on Saturday 18th May 23:19
But if you don't try how can you achieve a comparable or even better engine? They must do something right for lotus to choose some of their engines?

If BMW are top of the tree now it doesn't mean everyone else gives in surely?

I can imagine someone saying the same as you in 1992, as the mkiii suffered head gasket issues when BMW 'M' cars engines were sound and more powerful, then Toyota made the 2JZ and it was a lot better and a rival to the 'M' cars and AMG's etc.
But to try and develope a new engine for a low volume low profit car for a manufacturer like Toyota makes no sense. They themselves said as much - no BMW partnership no Supra. They never intended to 'achieve' something. Theyre not engineers, they just want to sell what the market wants at a profit they want.

Would be thinking Lotus use the engines due to supply/cost issues rather than it being the best engine. There are many more engines that would be above the Toyota engines if they were cost efficiently available.

My point isnt that BMW are top of the tree - they arent the best but they certainly hold their own in the engine making department.

The 2JZ started life in 1990 for their run of the mill bigger cars and morphed into a performance unit. It wasnt built originally as a performance engine for the Supra.


Toyota have a no win situation because if they really redid the Supra in almost exactly the same mould as the original people would have complained it is too expensive, too heavy and no one would have bought it even if the reviews loved it.

What people want is a remake of the original thats as quick as a GT-R, looks like a DB11, handles like an Exige, has the reliability of a Corolla, the interior of an Lexus LC, the weight of an Atom, the engine and tunability of the original Supra at the same cost as a Mustang. It doesnt exist, cant exist and people are surprised.

Edited by Pommy on Sunday 19th May 01:17

Scootersp

3,107 posts

187 months

Sunday 19th May 2019
quotequote all
I get exactly what you are saying it's just a shame they have taken that line, but I accept they are a business trying to make money at the end of the day and think this is the best way.

The point re the JZ being in the soarer/aristo/gs300 is true and then Lexus weren't really around or just starting. They could have done the same today with one of the numerous large capacity normally aspirated Lexus engines around, but they haven't perhaps to not tread on top end Lexus shoes? I don't know?

Basically all cars are flawed and I agree lots would moan about one or other aspect regardless of collaboration or sole Toyota design I just think having your top model effectively a tweaked version of another manufacturers car is a little bit of a cop out.

Other manufacturers 'waste' money on niche cars (Honda) so why not Toyota?

Pommy

14,229 posts

215 months

Monday 20th May 2019
quotequote all
Pommy said:
rallycross said:
forzaminardi said:
I / how much it'll cost in Australia?
1 million auzzie dollars! (not much then).
hehe probably not wrong.

Im in Oz and have a bit of chat about $85k plus on roads so probably $100k for the firsts ones after taxes and mark ups.

Quite a restricted supply i understand so probabl1y even overs with a likely few chancers at $120k...
Well it was right $85k plus on road so $95k to $105k on road.

https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/moto...


Hmm, thats a lot.

C.A.R.

3,967 posts

187 months

Monday 20th May 2019
quotequote all
There will no doubt be a track special with increased power (a-la Z4 40i) and a manual gearbox (again, as-per Z4) once the initial hype has calmed down about.

It'll be a GRMN version with silly stripes, like that Yaris.

Gazz28

10 posts

91 months

Tuesday 21st May 2019
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Not for me! The front looks like a MX5, the rear looks like a man squinting, banana yellow? Really? The side shot does it some justice but it can't take away that god awful rear end. I know you can say you won't see it when you're driving it, but I need a pretty sports car sat on my drive if I am to buy one.
I am sure the 'Supra' badge will have sales soaring.
Just my opinion and thoughts


300bhp/ton

41,030 posts

189 months

Tuesday 21st May 2019
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Niffty951 said:
Would love one but at £90k we're back into the big budget market. I'm looking at less that half that. £40k would be a stretch. (I appreciate this is less than the equivalent market value of a new 944 turbo but I still think 90k relative to the average wage has moved the bar from 1990
Curious where are you getting £90k from? Just looked and they are $55k starting price. I’d think you should be able to land one in the UK for £55-60k depending on the exact route you take. Still a lot of money. But ballpark to the Supra.