How many niches is too many?

[rockandrollmark]

This seems to be a trend across the industry. I could choose many, but Merc seem to be the worst culprit...

Mercedes-Benz Line-up c. 1989

• 190E
• E-Class Saloon | Coupe | Convertible
• S-Class Saloon | LWB Saloon | Coupe
• SL
• G-Wagen

Today's line-up (2019)

• A-Class
• CLA | Coupe | Shooting Brake
• GLA
• B-Class
• C-Class Saloon | Estate | Coupe | Convertible
• GLC
• E-Class Saloon | Estate (plus an MG Streetwise-inspired plastic clad variant) | Coupe | Convertible
• GLE
• CLS (...no shooting brake, yes)
• S-Class Saloon (plus a Maybach variants, including a LWB land-yacht) | Coupe | Convertible
• GLS
• G-Class
• X-Class (...Navara with posh seats)
• V-Class (...Vito with carpet)
• SLC
• SL
• AMG GT
• ...and the new ECQ Electric thing

I make that 29.5 body styles! Similar story with BMW and the ever expanding range of X1, X2, X3, X4...

Were Mercedes-Benz (and BMW, and the VAG brands) really losing out on market-share in the past by not having a car for every sub-niche? I personally applaud the likes of Volvo. Granted if you go back to '89 they only had four cars they could sell you (340, 240, 740 and 480) but their lineup looks positively retrained in comparison to the competition:

• S60 | S90
• V40 | V60 | V90
• XC40 | XC60 | XC90

I keenly await the arrival of a jacked-up Scenic RX-style B-Class

[pits]

BMW have to be as bad if not worse, even from a rough idea
1 series hatch
1 series awful minivan thing
X1

2 series coupe
2 series convertible
X2

3 series saloon
3 series touring
3 series GT
X3

4 series coupe
4 series convertible
4 GT thing
X4

5 series saloon
5 series touring
5 series GT
X5

X6 GT
X7
7
8 coupe
8 convertible
8 GT on the way

i3
i8
Z4

Then there's all the hybrids, and various versions of the M cars, CS, competition, alpinas as well, plus their motorbike range from sports bikes to off-road etc.

Before anyone gets mad by my referring to them as the GT things, I've lost track of what's a saloon, a weird crossover or the actual GT things, they blur into one these days.

I'm surprised they haven't started releasing lawn mowers......quick Google, now wait they have.

https://gearpatrol.com/2010/04/16/bmw-designworks-...

[konark]

Don't forget the BINI.

[Second Best]

I think that what a lot of manufacturers forget (particularly the Germans offering more letters than there are in the alphabet), is that by diluting the brand so much, they forego long-term and/or more affluent customers, in exchange for a "quick win". Yes, it's great to get Zara and Shardonnay to buy an X1 114i GT M-sport Ecobks instead of a Mokka, but when they have to service it or find out they've lost £15k in a few years, they'll never buy one again, and tell their other mates that BMW are st because they cost too much.

Plus those who used to buy the posher versions probably won't appreciate every humdrum PCP car looking identical to the one they've saved up for. I'm in this group - I love my F-Type, but I'll never buy another Jaguar. Why the fk Jaguar thought it would be a good idea to throw two fingers to the V6 and V8 F-Type buyers by releasing an el cheapo four-pot F-Type is beyond me, but it's basically thrown me off the brand. I love my F-Type, but Jaguar aren't getting another penny off me directly.

[rayyan171]

pits said:

BMW have to be as bad if not worse, even from a rough idea
1 series hatch
1 series awful minivan thing
X1

2 series coupe
2 series convertible
X2

3 series saloon
3 series touring
3 series GT
X3

4 series coupe
4 series convertible
4 GT thing
X4

5 series saloon
5 series touring
5 series GT
X5

X6 GT
X7
7
8 coupe
8 convertible
8 GT on the way

i3
i8
Z4

Then there's all the hybrids, and various versions of the M cars, CS, competition, alpinas as well, plus their motorbike range from sports bikes to off-road etc.

Before anyone gets mad by my referring to them as the GT things, I've lost track of what's a saloon, a weird crossover or the actual GT things, they blur into one these days.

I'm surprised they haven't started releasing lawn mowers......quick Google, now wait they have.

https://gearpatrol.com/2010/04/16/bmw-designworks-...

Undoubtedly they are niches, but they are simply making this many models because there is a market for them, and from a simple business perspective they can either take whatever cut they can from putting together a car from the parts bin, or lose out. Audi had the Q2 (basically a golf) and BMW didn't like that, so they simply dipped into their massive catalogue of chassis' that they have, saw the Countryman that they had been making for years, and made a new body to fit over, dipping into the parts bin again to pull out seats, a sat nav and controls. They don't cost the world to develop them, as the core R&D has already been done into the chassis, so they can simply do some re-engineering here and there and suddenly the X2 is a thing.

Same thing applies to cars they make themselves - they pump so much money into making sure the 3 series is the car they need, which is probably their most important car, they can therefore make more models based from either taking two doors off or making a Gran Coupe and they suddenly have two more models. Audi on the other hand had to do some considerable re-engineering for the A5 Sportback from the coupe.

[cmvtec]

A few years ago, I could probably tell you a bit of information about each car in a manufacturer's lineup.

Now, I am quite often surprised when I see a Merc or Audi and wonder wtf it is and where it's supposed to sit in the range.

Also, I'm finding it difficult to tell most Mercedes saloons and coupes apart when there's nothing to scale them against.

[rockandrollmark]

cmvtec said:

A few years ago, I could probably tell you a bit of information about each car in a manufacturer's lineup.

Now, I am quite often surprised when I see a Merc or Audi and wonder wtf it is and where it's supposed to sit in the range.

Also, I'm finding it difficult to tell most Mercedes saloons and coupes apart when there's nothing to scale them against.

I saw an X6 and a similar coloured X4 parked up alongside each other the other day, and I’m not exaggerating when I say I could barely work out anything that differentiated the two.

[Sheepshanks]

rockandrollmark said:

This seems to be a trend across the industry. I could choose many, but Merc seem to be the worst culprit...

Mercedes-Benz Line-up c. 1989

• 190E
• E-Class Saloon | Coupe | Convertible
• S-Class Saloon | LWB Saloon | Coupe
• SL
• G-Wagen

Today's line-up (2019)

• A-Class
• CLA | Coupe | Shooting Brake
• GLA
• B-Class
• C-Class Saloon | Estate | Coupe | Convertible
• GLC
• E-Class Saloon | Estate (plus an MG Streetwise-inspired plastic clad variant) | Coupe | Convertible
• GLE
• CLS (...no shooting brake, yes)
• S-Class Saloon (plus a Maybach variants, including a LWB land-yacht) | Coupe | Convertible
• GLS
• G-Class
• X-Class (...Navara with posh seats)
• V-Class (...Vito with carpet)
• SLC
• SL
• AMG GT
• ...and the new ECQ Electric thing

I make that 29.5 body styles!

There's 39 models on their models home page - and that's down, and it's without (at least) the Navara and ECQ. I recall counting them a while ago and there were 44.

Makes me laugh that Honda have 4 in the UK, yet someone on here complained that a Honda salesman didn't know about the trim levels of one of the cars!

[SOL111]

Second Best said:

I think that what a lot of manufacturers forget (particularly the Germans offering more letters than there are in the alphabet), is that by diluting the brand so much, they forego long-term and/or more affluent customers, in exchange for a "quick win". Yes, it's great to get Zara and Shardonnay to buy an X1 114i GT M-sport Ecobks instead of a Mokka, but when they have to service it or find out they've lost £15k in a few years, they'll never buy one again, and tell their other mates that BMW are st because they cost too much.

Plus those who used to buy the posher versions probably won't appreciate every humdrum PCP car looking identical to the one they've saved up for. I'm in this group - I love my F-Type, but I'll never buy another Jaguar. Why the fk Jaguar thought it would be a good idea to throw two fingers to the V6 and V8 F-Type buyers by releasing an el cheapo four-pot F-Type is beyond me, but it's basically thrown me off the brand. I love my F-Type, but Jaguar aren't getting another penny off me directly.

Except they don't cost too much, especially when you purchase a service plan, and most German cars hold their value better than an equivalent Ford/Vauxhall etc.

You see it as dilution but companies are in business to make money. Rich people who buy prestige are in the top 5%. 'Diluting' the brand, as you call it is attempting to market to the other 95%.

You do the maths and see what you'd rather do as a business. You're comparing a few flagship 7 series sales with hundreds of 116i's.

[kambites]

To state the obvious: "too many niches" is one more than makes the maximum profit. They know what they're doing.

[Nickbrapp]

Don’t forget the GLC coupe and GLE coupe

[anonymous-user]

Lotus Elise,

111S
111R
340R
Cup220
Cup230
Cup250
Cup260
Sprint
Sport 190
Sport 160
Sport 135R
Lotus Sport 111
Type 23
50th Anniversary Edition
60th Anniversary Edition
Jim Clark Type 25
Type 25
Type 49
Type 72
Type 79
Type 99T
Sports Racer
Race Tech
Club Racer
California Edition
Purist Edition
Final Edition
Roger Becker SC

[kambites]

If you're counting every engine option and special edition over every generation of a car, I'm sure there are far worse than the Elise!

Well, maybe a bit worse anyway.

[anonymous-user]

kambites said:

Well, maybe a bit worse anyway.

[f1nn]

kambites said:

To state the obvious: "too many niches" is one more than makes the maximum profit. They know what they're doing.

Absolutely this. If people keep buying them, manufacturers will keep making them.

[swamp]

Premium manufacturers produce niche cars because they can increases sales without damaging their brand.

[TheDrBrian]

Second Best said:

I think that what a lot of manufacturers forget (particularly the Germans offering more letters than there are in the alphabet), is that by diluting the brand so much, they forego long-term and/or more affluent customers, in exchange for a "quick win". Yes, it's great to get Zara and Shardonnay to buy an X1 114i GT M-sport Ecobks instead of a Mokka, but when they have to service it or find out they've lost £15k in a few years, they'll never buy one again, and tell their other mates that BMW are st because they cost too much.

Ha.In three years time they'll just roll whats left of the cars' value into another poverty spec stbox with the correct badge.

[GroundEffect]

Second Best said:

I think that what a lot of manufacturers forget (particularly the Germans offering more letters than there are in the alphabet), is that by diluting the brand so much, they forego long-term and/or more affluent customers, in exchange for a "quick win". Yes, it's great to get Zara and Shardonnay to buy an X1 114i GT M-sport Ecobks instead of a Mokka, but when they have to service it or find out they've lost £15k in a few years, they'll never buy one again, and tell their other mates that BMW are st because they cost too much.

Plus those who used to buy the posher versions probably won't appreciate every humdrum PCP car looking identical to the one they've saved up for. I'm in this group - I love my F-Type, but I'll never buy another Jaguar. Why the fk Jaguar thought it would be a good idea to throw two fingers to the V6 and V8 F-Type buyers by releasing an el cheapo four-pot F-Type is beyond me, but it's basically thrown me off the brand. I love my F-Type, but Jaguar aren't getting another penny off me directly.

So you're a snob?

[kiethton]

Sheepshanks said:

There's 39 models on their models home page - and that's down, and it's without (at least) the Navara and ECQ. I recall counting them a while ago and there were 44.

Makes me laugh that Honda have 4 in the UK, yet someone on here complained that a Honda salesman didn't know about the trim levels of one of the cars!

Think there are coupe versions of the GLC and GLE as well?

[anonymous-user]

GroundEffect said:

So you're a snob?

Hmmmm, look one post higher up the thread. Words in bold are the key identifier of the species...

DrBrain said:

In three years time they'll just roll whats left of the cars' value into another poverty spec ***tbox with the correct badge.