RE: Tom Hartley: PH Meets

RE: Tom Hartley: PH Meets

Author
Discussion

cayman-black

7,774 posts

157 months

Thursday 16th May
quotequote all
I think there are a few dealers that are just as big , better than them now, Redline,Romans, Bramleys to name some i,m sure there are more.

johnnyBv8

1,887 posts

132 months

Thursday 16th May
quotequote all
ITBScone said:
An incredible amount of bitter envy on here from people who probably don't have first-hand experience. This is why forums are dying, it's easier to just sit in a real armchair. One thing I do agree on is the lake pictures, it's not that it's a bad idea, just poorly executed. The photos are crap.
There's a lot of validity underlying the sentiment though - there's no way the TH name (not even the business) is worth even a fraction of £250m (this must either have been misquoted, or, oddly, TH doesn't understand commercial valuation). Then, if you look at the reviews on Google, TH have a low score and are way below most specialist/performance independents, with plenty of unhappy buyers. Add this to the (admittedly old) link on business behaviours, and it's perhaps understandable that the PH response isn't very positive.


Edited by johnnyBv8 on Thursday 16th May 14:32

cookie1600

1,128 posts

102 months

Thursday 16th May
quotequote all
Just preparing the next cars for an advertorial photo-shoot








J4CKO

27,204 posts

141 months

Thursday 16th May
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Rawwr said:
J4CKO said:
"Thats Pretty low Mister, If i had a length of rubber hose...."
National Lampoons Christmas Vacation?
Yep, when Mr Shirley cancels bonuses without warning, it sprang into my head on reading that transcript.

nicholasm

138 posts

126 months

Thursday 16th May
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Tankrizzo said:
Wonder how much they paid PH to write the article?
I just hope it wasn't someone else's life savings frown
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Bob Dong

2,028 posts

103 months

Thursday 16th May
quotequote all
ITBScone said:
An incredible amount of bitter envy on here from people who probably don't have first-hand experience. This is why forums are dying, it's easier to just sit in a real armchair. One thing I do agree on is the lake pictures, it's not that it's a bad idea, just poorly executed. The photos are crap.
Haha "You can't dislike anyone with money, everyone is jealous" is my favourite PH trope. Took a while to get to it!

suffolk009

3,950 posts

106 months

Thursday 16th May
quotequote all
I stopped following Snr on twitter. Just cars I can neither afford and often don't like, and a disturbing level of misogyny (he's no fan of women in politics).

I'd have thought employing an architect to design that showroom would have been a good idea.

And that lake is stupid.


Rawwr

21,964 posts

175 months

Thursday 16th May
quotequote all
J4CKO said:
Yep, when Mr Shirley cancels bonuses without warning, it sprang into my head on reading that transcript.
What do I win?

carinaman

13,392 posts

113 months

Thursday 16th May
quotequote all
johnnyBv8 said:
ITBScone said:
An incredible amount of bitter envy on here from people who probably don't have first-hand experience. This is why forums are dying, it's easier to just sit in a real armchair. One thing I do agree on is the lake pictures, it's not that it's a bad idea, just poorly executed. The photos are crap.
There's a lot of validity underlying the sentiment though - there's no way the TH name (not even the business) is worth even a fraction of £250m (this must either have been misquoted, or, oddly, TH doesn't understand commercial valuation). Then, if you look at the reviews on Google, TH have a low score and are way below most specialist/performance independents, with plenty of unhappy buyers. Add this to the (admittedly old) link on business behaviours, and it's perhaps understandable that the PH response isn't very positive.
Any cynicism and doubting is consistent with the Rich Energy thread in the F1 forum?

TH have something in their Corporate Responsibility Policy about employees not leaving the scene of accidents?


trails

485 posts

90 months

Thursday 16th May
quotequote all
ITBScone said:
An incredible amount of bitter envy on here from people who probably don't have first-hand experience. This is why forums are dying, it's easier to just sit in a real armchair. One thing I do agree on is the lake pictures, it's not that it's a bad idea, just poorly executed. The photos are crap.
Forums are dying for many reasons, not being sycophantic isn't one of them.


Edited by trails on Thursday 16th May 16:06

markcoznottz

4,958 posts

165 months

Thursday 16th May
quotequote all
Bob Dong said:
ITBScone said:
An incredible amount of bitter envy on here from people who probably don't have first-hand experience. This is why forums are dying, it's easier to just sit in a real armchair. One thing I do agree on is the lake pictures, it's not that it's a bad idea, just poorly executed. The photos are crap.
Haha "You can't dislike anyone with money, everyone is jealous" is my favourite PH trope. Took a while to get to it!
Mixed anecdotes really, but they should be more careful about what they say and employ someone impartial to do thier social media. Ok it's not a monestary but you wouldn't hear other high end purveyors say controversial stuff. The self valuation is just crass. Having said that you can't accuse them of not being serious about what they do. Having your house next door to your business is a pretty good sign your not going to dissapear overnight.

Butter Face

18,432 posts

101 months

Thursday 16th May
quotequote all
suffolk009 said:
I stopped following Snr on twitter.


hehe

nicholasm

138 posts

126 months

Thursday 16th May
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Butter Face said:


hehe
Haha. Good etiquette dictates the greeting should take place before the meating.

Cheib

16,197 posts

116 months

Thursday 16th May
quotequote all
2 GKC said:
Not even close. Less than £10m.

I suspect a lot of their cars are SOR
That's a laughably low number!!!!!

The bitterness on here is amazing. I've never met them, unlikely to be a customer and do look at their social media and can see it can divide opinion......all I can do is admire then fact that as a family business they've been doing it for something like 40 years and remember for a lot of that time it hasn't been a one way ticket.

As to the business being worth £10 mil ? I reckon you're further away than the £250mil. The brand might not be worth that but if you looked at what that business turns over and it's client list it's worth a lot. The client list/relationships and the goodwill they have are worth a huge amount.

Can't see the exact company they trade out of but for comparison

Tom Hartley Jr turnover was £100mil in 2018 with profits of £6mil (turnover up 20% YoY)
Romans Intil tutnover of £80 profits of £2mil (tunover also up 20%)

So my guess is Tom Hartley's turnover is well above £100mil based on that...and those profit number obviously might not show the full story (salaries are obviously above that line etc).

I'd say the real profits of the business are somewhere in the £10mil to £20mil a year area. £200mil ? Not far off I'd say...although they are the business so they couldn't sell it for that as the relationships would walk with them.



bloomen

2,358 posts

100 months

Thursday 16th May
quotequote all
Cheib said:
although they are the business so they couldn't sell it for that as the relationships would walk with them.
That's the key.

They don't make anything. They don't have exclusive rights to anything. The people there do something.

If the people are gone you're not left with a great deal. You'd be buying an airdrop into something with ongoing interest and leads. Whether that's worth that amount is up to you I suppose.

johnnyBv8

1,887 posts

132 months

Thursday 16th May
quotequote all
Cheib said:
That's a laughably low number!!!!!

The bitterness on here is amazing. I've never met them, unlikely to be a customer and do look at their social media and can see it can divide opinion......all I can do is admire then fact that as a family business they've been doing it for something like 40 years and remember for a lot of that time it hasn't been a one way ticket.

As to the business being worth £10 mil ? I reckon you're further away than the £250mil. The brand might not be worth that but if you looked at what that business turns over and it's client list it's worth a lot. The client list/relationships and the goodwill they have are worth a huge amount.

Can't see the exact company they trade out of but for comparison

Tom Hartley Jr turnover was £100mil in 2018 with profits of £6mil (turnover up 20% YoY)
Romans Intil tutnover of £80 profits of £2mil (tunover also up 20%)

So my guess is Tom Hartley's turnover is well above £100mil based on that...and those profit number obviously might not show the full story (salaries are obviously above that line etc).

I'd say the real profits of the business are somewhere in the £10mil to £20mil a year area. £200mil ? Not far off I'd say...although they are the business so they couldn't sell it for that as the relationships would walk with them.
The article doesn't refer to the value of the business as £250m though - it values the brand name as £250m!

J4CKO

27,204 posts

141 months

Thursday 16th May
quotequote all
Rawwr said:
J4CKO said:
Yep, when Mr Shirley cancels bonuses without warning, it sprang into my head on reading that transcript.
What do I win?
A years subscription to the Jelly of the Month club !

Muzzer79

2,678 posts

128 months

Thursday 16th May
quotequote all
GranCab said:
Why wouldn't you just go to your friendly franchised dealer for your exotic or a specialist like DK Engineering ?
I think their angle is that they can obtain cars that a 'friendly franchised dealer' cannot. i.e very low mileage hyper cars, etc which dealers tend not to hold in stock, if they're even able to get them.

I have no dealings with TH or TH Junior so cannot comment on the quality of their operation.

It does seem however that a lot of posters here seem to think that this business is fairly cushy and that the Hartleys are making money for nothing.

Yet I don't see any of these posters having similar business turning the kind of money that, like them or loathe them, the Hartley business does.

If it's that easy and/or the Hartleys are that dodgy - start a supercar dealership up yourself and take all their business?

Selling cars like these is relatively easy - they're the best of their kind. Lakes, glass showrooms and the like are all just chintz.

It's knowing who and when to buy the best from, who and when to sell them to and agreeing a price for each transaction where the skill and contact base is.

I'd expect that most of their sales come from a list of contacts and former clients that takes years to build up.


Rawwr

21,964 posts

175 months

Thursday 16th May
quotequote all
J4CKO said:
A years subscription to the Jelly of the Month club !
Oh you're good.

Are you using the whole fist, Doc?

WJNB

1,637 posts

102 months

Thursday 16th May
quotequote all
I read somewhere that TH Snr is of gypsy stock.