Resurgence of the 50k sports car...

[Ultrafunkula]

I'm really liking the Supra, it seems to become more appealing to me as time goes on just like the Hyundai i30 N was. Would prefer a manual box though. If it's popular I hope this could lead to the market moving back towards performance coupe's, especially with the spectre of speed limiting on the horizon.

[StuTheGrouch]

ging84 said:

You have just quoted me fully explaining quite why I have such problem with people preferring manual boxes.
And in truth it's not the people who prefer the manual boxes I have a problem with, it's the people who go on about it and influence others, perfect example here where a thread is about not 1 specific car but a whole group and 3 replies in someone is complaining about the lack of manual gearbox.

Bit of a stretch to say that this is complaining, or influences others in any way:

Trevor555 said:

It's a shame some of these are auto only.

Certainly didn't deserve the response it got.

Perhaps you need to grow up a bit?

[StuTheGrouch]

Ultrafunkula said:

I'm really liking the Supra, it seems to become more appealing to me as time goes on just like the Hyundai i30 N was. Would prefer a manual box though . If it's popular I hope this could lead to the market moving back towards performance coupe's, especially with the spectre of speed limiting on the horizon.

Careful, Ging won't like that!

[Bumblebee7]

​S​upra and Alpine look awesome, but I would also want a manual for a fun car. At that price point I think I'd ultimately end up going for an Exige. Nothing to do with how much 'better' an auto is but a manual will make it that much more enjoyable. That being said it's all very hypothetical as I don't have the budget for any of those so will probably end up getting an mx5 or gt86 ​

[omniflow]

Not wanting to add fuel to the fire but...……

When accelerating hard in my 4C, I can sometimes get caught out on the upshifts and hit the rev limiter. The car accelerates so quickly in 1st, 2nd and 3rd that you have to be really focused to avoid hitting the limiter. If it had a manual gearbox then I really think the driving experience would be worse.

I don't have an issue with manual gearboxes, but I do think that things have progressed, and a modern TCT gearbox is actually more fun than a manual. 20 or 30 years ago, it was a very different story, but not any more.

[CABC]

ging84 said:

You have just quoted me fully explaining quite why I have such problem with people preferring manual boxes.
And in truth it's not the people who prefer the manual boxes I have a problem with, it's the people who go on about it and influence others, perfect example here where a thread is about not 1 specific car but a whole group and 3 replies in someone is complaining about the lack of manual gearbox.

now you've explained yourself better you have a point.

can i raise another issue, relating especially to "sports cars".
0-60 shouldn't be too much of a measure for sports cars, yet the public have fallen into the trap.
As a consequence most cars now reach 62kph in second gear, necessitating a set of ratios inappropriate for full enjoyment of the car. i wish more people looked at more relevant metrics.

[300bhp/ton]

ging84 said:

300bhp/ton said:

Why such a derisive comment ? You got a chip on your should or what

I do
It is supporting the legacy preferences that holds back the motor industry, and people yearning for a manual box in a non specific group of cars that never came with one is the absolute epitome of the issue.

The car companies know that a number of people will take 1 look and say its not a manual not interested, another number of people will consider it, maybe talk to friends read reviews and ultimately be put off because of the other groups opinions.

Manufacturers will know how many millions more it will cost them to design, test, approve, build and support 2 gearbox types. If the numbers don't add up they simply won't build the car. It won't be profitable enough with 2 gearboxes and won't sell well enough with only 1.

Basically people like this are a factor in why these type of cars went away.

Gearboxes already exist. R&D cost is likely minimal, maybe even small enough not to really show on a balance sheet. Do BMW use manuals with this engine already?

And given the choice, I'd be one of those to buy the manual.

[300bhp/ton]

GiveItSomeWellie said:

Since the 370Z was launched in 2009 (and taking heavy influence from the 350Z launched in 2003), the 86/BRZ in 2012, and the current MX-5 in 2015, then yes I would say it's dated.

Nothing wrong with that, however.

I think you are just looking at the year it was introduced and seeing if that was earlier than another. How does this make is 'dated'?

What exactly is dated about it as a car and it's abilities?

[300bhp/ton]

omniflow said:

I don't have an issue with manual gearboxes, but I do think that things have progressed, and a modern TCT gearbox is actually more fun than a manual. 20 or 30 years ago, it was a very different story, but not any more.

I guess it depends what angle of fun you are looking at.

For sheer speed building and surge in the back, yes I suspect a modern semi-auto/DSG type thing is impressive. But there is no denying they just have less engagement.

And out on the open roads you rarely if ever need every ounce of actual performance against a stop watch. For me I'd take involvement, interaction and overall driving enjoyment over outright performance.

I haven't driven every type of modern automatic. But everyone I have driven has been less fun and less engaging than a manual.

[CABC]

300bhp/ton said:

GiveItSomeWellie said:

Since the 370Z was launched in 2009 (and taking heavy influence from the 350Z launched in 2003), the 86/BRZ in 2012, and the current MX-5 in 2015, then yes I would say it's dated.

Nothing wrong with that, however.

I think you are just looking at the year it was introduced and seeing if that was earlier than another. How does this make is 'dated'?

What exactly is dated about it as a car and it's abilities?

Caterhams are 60 yrs old in design. look at what bad driver's cars they are after all this time.

[Composite Guru]

Baldchap said:

Recently bought a brand new Elise 250 Cup for a whisker over 50. Cracking drive and an absolutely manual gearbox.

I bought a year old 220 Cup 2 years ago and think its the best money I ever spent.

Nice thing with a Lotus is they don't fall off a cliff in depreciation.

[Herbs]

You have an issue with people who have a different preference to you?? wow...

Bearing in mind we are talking about sports cars, I think the lack of a manual option is something very much worthy of a comment on.

I suggest maybe go and have a read of the "are cars too fast for the road" thread and you will see why some people, like myself prefer a manual box.

A sports car is meant to be enthralling and engaging - an autobox regardless of how good it is, removes an element of engagement with the car. I've owned both manual, auto and automated manuals - some of the same car and in every case the manual version is more fun for me - albeit slightly slower.

A daily driver on the other is most definitely suited to being an auto for me.

[Guvernator]

Yep have to agree, we are talking about the resurgence of £50k sports cars. Yes we have a few more choices these days, unfortunately I don't desire to own any of the choices the OP has listed because they either have an auto gearbox, an anodyne modern turbo engine or both.

If I was looking to spend £50k on a sportscar, I'd be giving Lotus a call and picking up a manual v6 Exige.

[ORD]

Herbs said:

You have an issue with people who have a different preference to you?? wow...

Bearing in mind we are talking about sports cars, I think the lack of a manual option is something very much worthy of a comment on.

I suggest maybe go and have a read of the "are cars too fast for the road" thread and you will see why some people, like myself prefer a manual box.

A sports car is meant to be enthralling and engaging - an autobox regardless of how good it is, removes an element of engagement with the car. I've owned both manual, auto and automated manuals - some of the same car and in every case the manual version is more fun for me - albeit slightly slower.

A daily driver on the other is most definitely suited to being an auto for me.

I know this is all a matter of preference, but I am genuinely perplexed that anyone would want an auto box in a sports car. It takes away a large part of the experience. Much worse than a 4 cylinder turbo engine (and those are horrid enough).

[Reark]

Wow are people not bored of the auto/manual debate?

I genuinely feel sorry for people that feel the need to get a certain type of car or transmission etc. due to it's perceived acclaim.

The liberation you'll feel when you stop caring what people think is truly magnificent....

GET WHAT YOU WANT. fk EVERYONE ELSE

[Herbs]

Reark said:

Wow are people not bored of the auto/manual debate?

I genuinely feel sorry for people that feel the need to get a certain type of car or transmission etc. due to it's perceived acclaim.

The liberation you'll feel when you stop caring what people think is truly magnificent....

GET WHAT YOU WANT. fk EVERYONE ELSE

Pretty sure everyone who has commented, have done so because of their own personal preference, otherwise we would all be in auto's as that is the "perceived acclaim" according to manufacturers surely?

[DoYouEvenBoost]

CABC said:

Looks like 50k is becoming the new price for GT Sports cars, and all new releases are welcome. However, these are what I would call "GT Sports", as they're heavy, comfortable daily drivers too. "sports cars" should be light, simple and probably 30k-ish. we need more MX5 competition, like an MR2, Barchetta et al. For the most part these would be 2nd or 3rd cars in a household, and i appreciate that for that cost with modern legislation they would definitely need to be stripped down.

The Abarth 124 looks like a rather fantastic MX5. I've always liked the MX5, I really enjoy driving them but, they've never really grabbed me by the bits. The 124 however, I want it, I really want it. One parks in the work car park and it sets of the jealous beast, something the MX5, even with how good it is, doesn't give me. Plus it makes a dirty dirty dirty noise.


NUUUUUUURSE! It happened again!

[ORD]

DoYouEvenBoost said:

The Abarth 124 looks like a rather fantastic MX5. I've always liked the MX5, I really enjoy driving them but, they've never really grabbed me by the bits. The 124 however, I want it, I really want it. One parks in the work car park and it sets of the jealous beast, something the MX5, even with how good it is, doesn't give me. Plus it makes a dirty dirty dirty noise.


NUUUUUUURSE! It happened again!

I love the look of those. One of the few cars that always catches my attention and always looks fun.

[Tickle]

white_goodman said:

So if you were in the market for this kind of vehicle either new or a used purchase a few years down the line, would you go with the "safe" option i.e. a Boxster/Cayman or one of the "newer" alternatives?

Edited by white_goodman on Thursday 16th May 20:13

Not sure why you missed out Lotus for your £50k sports car criteria, they have been around for a while, both the models and company . The Exige S3 won EVO car of the year in 2012 and has been tweaked and revised more since. £50k would get you into an Exige 350. It is also available with a manual box linked to a V6. They sound and drive very well by all accounts.

[Composite Guru]

Tickle said:

white_goodman said:

So if you were in the market for this kind of vehicle either new or a used purchase a few years down the line, would you go with the "safe" option i.e. a Boxster/Cayman or one of the "newer" alternatives?

Edited by white_goodman on Thursday 16th May 20:13

Not sure why you missed out Lotus for your £50k sports car criteria, they have been around for a while, both the models and company . The Exige S3 won EVO car of the year in 2012 and has been tweaked and revised more since. £50k would get you into an Exige 350. It is also available with a manual box linked to a V6. They sound and drive very well by all accounts.

Because whenever "sports car" is mentioned then average Joe will tick the Porsche box without a thought. That's the last car I would go for. They are such a common sight now they aren't looked at as something special now.