Resurgence of the 50k sports car...
Discussion
Pulse00 said:
Are people forgetting that auto boxes nowadays have paddles and can be driven in full manual mode?
It's not remotely the same thing though. And many may offer a "manual" mode, but still end up changing gears for you.Not saying this will be the case with the Supra. But a few I've driven recently still kickdown in manual mode and change up at the redline. Which to me seems to completely defeat the object of manual control. One was also reluctant to downshift at times too.
TBH in terms of "control" they seem to have no greater control than 4 speed automatics with a shift lever from 25 years ago.
white_goodman said:
A decade ago maybe not but my point was that there was some pricing parity between the mk4 Supra TT when it was new and a base 911 Carrera. Supra is still 50k, 911 is getting on for double that...
I'm not saying it wasn't, I haven't been able to find any UK prices. Do you have any for 1993-98 period?I found some US figures and it seemed the Supra was priced at the 968, so I would assume still a fair chunk less money than a same year 911.
white_goodman said:
370Z is a 10 year old design, looks dated and cheap inside and down on power.
Yes it might have been available for a while. Not sure how this makes it dated though. It's not as if it is running carbs, live axle and a Hotchkiss rear end.I also don't see how it is cheap inside compared to the GT86 and MX-5 to which you were comparing. And to which it is priced very similar too. And in that company again how can you claim it is down on power???
It has more power than a base model Cayman.
white_goodman said:
Mustang GT is a great shout. It's a big/heavy old bus but the option of a 5 litre V8 and manual box for 50k is pretty compelling.
It's not really that big or heavy. And old, come on get with 
The S550 platform is only a few years old. What exactly are you calling old on it???white_goodman said:
Camaro or Challenger is not available on the UK market and besides the Challenger is no sports car (nice car though).
They aren't officially available I agree. Although I think GM did import the Camaro for a while. But you can buy them new, so should probably count. Especially as not everyone on PH is in the UK.white_goodman said:
Morgan is surely more than 50k and probably a waiting list of several years?
£55k for a V6 manual. Which is fast, very cool and great in every way. I think waiting times are a lot less these days too.
https://www.morgan-motor.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/...
white_goodman said:
If I was spending 50k on a car, it would need to be something that I could live with every day.
That's fair, but not what you said in your op. 
And depending on were you drive and how far, there is no reason a Morgan couldn't be an option for some.
white_goodman said:
I would love an Elise but could I live with one every day?
Why not? Apart from slightly more of a struggle to get in/out of, they are not really hugely different to an MX-5 in terms of comfort.If you/a person could live with an MR2 MKIII or a Pug 106/Ford KA daily, then an Elise is unlikely to be anymore of a hardship IMO.
Edited by 300bhp/ton on Friday 17th May 15:01
otolith said:
Pulse00 said:
Are people forgetting that auto boxes nowadays have paddles and can be driven in full manual mode?
No.Not the same thing.
300bhp/ton said:
Why not? Apart from slightly more of a struggle to get in/out of, they are not really hugely different to an MX-5 in terms of comfort.
If you/a person could live with an MR2 MKIII or a Pug 106/Ford KA daily, then an Elise is unlikely to be anymore of a hardship IMO.
I can't find list prices for the 993 Carrera, which would have been contemporary to the mk4 Supra but I seem to remember it started around 50k (about the same as the Supra TT). 996 Carrera started at 56k when it was launched. NA Supra was probably 968 money. Not getting the "rose-tinted" opinions on the mk4 Supra in the Supra thread, hailing it as some kind of supercar slayer. I seem to remember a group test in Top Gear magazine when it was new against the E36 M3 Evo and the TVR Cerbera. The Supra TT was no faster than the M3 and not as quick as the Cerbera if I can recall, which stock, was a genuine supercar slayer. I agree that some tuned Supras were very quick though.If you/a person could live with an MR2 MKIII or a Pug 106/Ford KA daily, then an Elise is unlikely to be anymore of a hardship IMO.
Edited by 300bhp/ton on Friday 17th May 15:01
Nissan seem to have above average model life cycles compared to their peers. 10 years is pretty old for a new model these days. Just think, in 2009, the 987 Cayman and 997 were the current Porsche models and there have been 2 new generations of Cayman/911 since then. Nothing wrong with the fundamentals of the 370Z but the infotainment is very dated (perhaps not the biggest issue in a sports car) but it has less power than the Supra/Cayman S/Z4 M40i. More than the GT86/MX5 for sure but they're sub-30k.
I realise that the current Mustang isn't that old, I've driven one in fact. "Big old bus" is just an expression and nearly 1800kg is certainly not light. I liked it but it felt more GT than compact sports car.
white_goodman said:
Nothing wrong with the fundamentals of the 370Z but the infotainment is very dated
I must admit that I was pleasantly surprised by the Navigation system in my 370Z(2011 model) and it has touch screen. I have a 2017 Mini Cooper S with Sat Nav and that isn't touch screen, BMW seem really late to the party regards that(I know that they do it now though). I think what lets the 370Z down is the performance and if you're used to a 300bhp plus turbo hatchback(for example)...you are going to be left disappointed by it I think. It is very old school with its ethos.
Pulse00 said:
For me, the Alpine A110 is just an uglier, slower, heavier Alfa 4c. It also lacks a pretty special carbon fibre tub.
Would't be my choice in the price segment!
No, of course it wouldn’t as you took a 4c on a two balloons and a stick lease...Would't be my choice in the price segment!
Some of us bought cars we really wanted even if cheap lease deals were not available.
You sound like a certain Boxster owner who bought/leased the base model and will decry anything else in an effort to justify his own errors.
The 4c has a crap cabin, poor handling without the mods and poorer performance than the Alpine. I do like the looks though..
DoYouEvenBoost said:
The Abarth 124 looks like a rather fantastic MX5. I've always liked the MX5, I really enjoy driving them but, they've never really grabbed me by the bits. The 124 however, I want it, I really want it. One parks in the work car park and it sets of the jealous beast, something the MX5, even with how good it is, doesn't give me. Plus it makes a dirty dirty dirty noise.
NUUUUUUURSE! It happened again!
There's no more new ones coming into the UK, although there's a few pre reg ones still about.NUUUUUUURSE! It happened again!
And yes, the "dirty noise" is a good description.
If you get one you must have the visibility pack, the headlights are brilliant.
white_goodman said:
I can't find list prices for the 993 Carrera, which would have been contemporary to the mk4 Supra but I seem to remember it started around 50k (about the same as the Supra TT). 996 Carrera started at 56k when it was launched. NA Supra was probably 968 money. Not getting the "rose-tinted" opinions on the mk4 Supra in the Supra thread, hailing it as some kind of supercar slayer. I seem to remember a group test in Top Gear magazine when it was new against the E36 M3 Evo and the TVR Cerbera. The Supra TT was no faster than the M3 and not as quick as the Cerbera if I can recall, which stock, was a genuine supercar slayer. I agree that some tuned Supras were very quick though.
Nissan seem to have above average model life cycles compared to their peers. 10 years is pretty old for a new model these days. Just think, in 2009, the 987 Cayman and 997 were the current Porsche models and there have been 2 new generations of Cayman/911 since then. Nothing wrong with the fundamentals of the 370Z but the infotainment is very dated (perhaps not the biggest issue in a sports car) but it has less power than the Supra/Cayman S/Z4 M40i. More than the GT86/MX5 for sure but they're sub-30k.
I realise that the current Mustang isn't that old, I've driven one in fact. "Big old bus" is just an expression and nearly 1800kg is certainly not light. I liked it but it felt more GT than compact sports car.
I found a US review for the Supra in 1994. It was $36k for a non turbo and $40k for the turbo model. I have a feeling a 911 would have been significantly more money. Nissan seem to have above average model life cycles compared to their peers. 10 years is pretty old for a new model these days. Just think, in 2009, the 987 Cayman and 997 were the current Porsche models and there have been 2 new generations of Cayman/911 since then. Nothing wrong with the fundamentals of the 370Z but the infotainment is very dated (perhaps not the biggest issue in a sports car) but it has less power than the Supra/Cayman S/Z4 M40i. More than the GT86/MX5 for sure but they're sub-30k.
I realise that the current Mustang isn't that old, I've driven one in fact. "Big old bus" is just an expression and nearly 1800kg is certainly not light. I liked it but it felt more GT than compact sports car.
Btw the 370z is just over £29k new. I think you are being unfair saying 332hp is underpowered for that price range.
Didn't see an M2 Competition on this list.
I'll put in a shout for the BMW M2.
405 Bhp, 1600Kg, Manual if you wish and many a low mileage \ demonstrator available for sub 50K and according to Matt Prior \ Chris Harris not that far off a Cayman in terms of handling etc.
£47K 300 miles. what am I missing?
I'll put in a shout for the BMW M2.
405 Bhp, 1600Kg, Manual if you wish and many a low mileage \ demonstrator available for sub 50K and according to Matt Prior \ Chris Harris not that far off a Cayman in terms of handling etc.
£47K 300 miles. what am I missing?
300bhp/ton said:
white_goodman said:
370Z is a 10 year old design, looks dated and cheap inside and down on power.
Yes it might have been available for a while. Not sure how this makes it dated though. It's not as if it is running carbs, live axle and a Hotchkiss rear end.I also don't see how it is cheap inside compared to the GT86 and MX-5 to which you were comparing. And to which it is priced very similar too. And in that company again how can you claim it is down on power???
It has more power than a base model Cayman.
I do agree about the interior, it's pretty low rent, not as bad as the 350 was. And he said it looks dated. No-one mentioned carbs, live axles, whatever else.
The design is an evolution of the 350, which was around for a while before the 370 came along.
Lots of people like proper manual gearboxes, mechanical/viscous diffs as opposed to E-diffs, revvy NA engines as opposed to small capacity turbocharged engines, but all of those things make it a bit 'old fashioned' compared to contemporary offerings, such as the Cayman you mention with it's 2.0 4 pot turbo and PDK box, as opposed to the Nissan's slightly clunky manual, or conventional auto.
BathyThermo said:
The design is an evolution of the 350, which was around for a while before the 370 came along.
Lots of people like proper manual gearboxes, mechanical/viscous diffs as opposed to E-diffs, revvy NA engines as opposed to small capacity turbocharged engines, but all of those things make it a bit 'old fashioned' compared to contemporary offerings, such as the Cayman you mention with it's 2.0 4 pot turbo and PDK box, as opposed to the Nissan's slightly clunky manual, or conventional auto.
The old fashioned nature of the 370Z really appealed to me(RWD/Manual/N/A/LSD, but I do appreciate that it is a marmite car(the interior feels very basic/low rent but it comes with a bit of kit) and most do prefer the turbo/auto combination now I agree.Lots of people like proper manual gearboxes, mechanical/viscous diffs as opposed to E-diffs, revvy NA engines as opposed to small capacity turbocharged engines, but all of those things make it a bit 'old fashioned' compared to contemporary offerings, such as the Cayman you mention with it's 2.0 4 pot turbo and PDK box, as opposed to the Nissan's slightly clunky manual, or conventional auto.
Regards the clunky manual gearbox I do like it overall but I keep missing 2nd to 3rd gear at very high rpm(It wants to go into 5th for some reason)...I don't know if its me or the car though!!
cerb4.5lee said:
The old fashioned nature of the 370Z really appealed to me(RWD/Manual/N/A/LSD, but I do appreciate that it is a marmite car(the interior feels very basic/low rent but it comes with a bit of kit) and most do prefer the turbo/auto combination now I agree.
Regards the clunky manual gearbox I do like it overall but I keep missing 2nd to 3rd gear at very high rpm(It wants to go into 5th for some reason)...I don't know if its me or the car though!!
It has a good old mechanical feel, but an MX-5, for instance, has a much nicer shift, in my opinion.Regards the clunky manual gearbox I do like it overall but I keep missing 2nd to 3rd gear at very high rpm(It wants to go into 5th for some reason)...I don't know if its me or the car though!!
Speaking of gearshifts, 4th into 5th in my Mother's new 1.0T Civic is horrendous. Having just googled it, a few people are complaining about it online, but you can push the stick laterally, further than it needs to be to go into 5th. It's easy to miss 5th and just be pushing against the gate.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff