RE: The Brave Pill: Porsche 911 (996)
Discussion
CaptainSlow said:
Oakman said:
CaptainSlow said:
If you're getting a new clutch put in how much extra would it be to put in an uprated IMS bearing at the same time?
The bulk of the cost involved in IMS bearing replacement is getting at it. IE. The labour charges for dropping the engine gearbox assembly, doing RMS is also part of it. You check and do the clutch as part of the IMS job as everything is accessible then. A fools errand not to change the IMS bearing when you’ve done all the labour involved to get at the RMS and clutch.
The problem is, that the industry can’t agree on the best solution to solve the problem, and some of the fixes are so intrusive and labour intensive that they’re on the way to the cost of a full rebuild or replacement motor if the worst happens.
You need to look at production numbers for these engines - there are a looooot of 986 and 996 cars. A lot of them didn’t fail. And a lot of them still haven’t failed and are carrying wear that you’d associate with a twenty year old car.
Lubricating a bearing or tearing a motor half down whilst it’s still awkwardly in the car to replace a bearing doesn’t make it into a rebuilt engine and it doesn’t remove myriad other potential failure points.
My advice to anyone buying a car like this is to fix what’s broken, don’t use it in the salt and make sure you have enough cash and enough want for the car to fix whatever the worst it can chuck at you.
In 10 years these 996’s will be regarded as a paragon of simplicity with manual gear shift, rear mounted six and hydraulic steering....
Julian Thompson said:
Let’s be clear here - there has been a whole industry spring up because of the IMS and bearing issue on these old Porsche’s.
The problem is, that the industry can’t agree on the best solution to solve the problem, and some of the fixes are so intrusive and labour intensive that they’re on the way to the cost of a full rebuild or replacement motor if the worst happens.
You need to look at production numbers for these engines - there are a looooot of 986 and 996 cars. A lot of them didn’t fail. And a lot of them still haven’t failed and are carrying wear that you’d associate with a twenty year old car.
Lubricating a bearing or tearing a motor half down whilst it’s still awkwardly in the car to replace a bearing doesn’t make it into a rebuilt engine and it doesn’t remove myriad other potential failure points.
My advice to anyone buying a car like this is to fix what’s broken, don’t use it in the salt and make sure you have enough cash and enough want for the car to fix whatever the worst it can chuck at you.
In 10 years these 996’s will be regarded as a paragon of simplicity with manual gear shift, rear mounted six and hydraulic steering....
So I need to hold on to mine for 10 years, keep the mileage down and then I can cash in? The problem is, that the industry can’t agree on the best solution to solve the problem, and some of the fixes are so intrusive and labour intensive that they’re on the way to the cost of a full rebuild or replacement motor if the worst happens.
You need to look at production numbers for these engines - there are a looooot of 986 and 996 cars. A lot of them didn’t fail. And a lot of them still haven’t failed and are carrying wear that you’d associate with a twenty year old car.
Lubricating a bearing or tearing a motor half down whilst it’s still awkwardly in the car to replace a bearing doesn’t make it into a rebuilt engine and it doesn’t remove myriad other potential failure points.
My advice to anyone buying a car like this is to fix what’s broken, don’t use it in the salt and make sure you have enough cash and enough want for the car to fix whatever the worst it can chuck at you.
In 10 years these 996’s will be regarded as a paragon of simplicity with manual gear shift, rear mounted six and hydraulic steering....
cvega said:
I bought one of the "cheapest" 996s two years ago, with 140k on it. Once it grenades itself, I'll have a full hartech rebuild and have a 20k bombproof 911. Choices....
Having spent much of the last month looking at the various ways of fulfilling my dream of 911 ownership, I’m rapidly coming to the conclusion that this is a *very* good plan. Find one with decent bodywork and interior, and stick the money in the bank for when the engine eventually dies. Alternative is to spend double on a 997 .... and have nothing left for the disaster fund.
Tricuspid said:
Find one with decent bodywork and interior, and stick the money in the bank for when the engine eventually dies. Alternative is to spend double on a 997 .... and have nothing left for the disaster fund.
Yup, leave the purists to compare their gentleman's parts and meanwhile you'll be rocking the roads in a great car.Considered one and a 4S then looked at what a Mercedes SL55 AMG offered for similar money. So far 3 years of trouble free motoring, more comfort, more refinement, shattering performance and a roof off on in a sunny day in 16 secs without leaving your seat. Love Porsche’s - but the 996? I’ll take the AMG any day.
Chris Stott said:
Had my 2000 manual coupe 11 years. Bought on 57k, now on 172k. Lives outside and used as a daily in all weathers. Never had any engine issues, and clean bored when checked last year.
Mine has a few mods now - Konis, H&R -30 springs, H&R arbs, all other suspension bits replaced, X74 alignment, RSS engine mounts, cup wheel, BMC filter and helmholtz bypass, full exhaust, rear wiper delete, continental DAB head unit and Alpine speaker upgrade.
Probably worth no more than £10k, but I can’t think of anything else that I could replace it with that would be as good an all rounder unless I spent a load more money.
Forget the IMS... it’s a non issue in cars that get driven regularly... Indy looked at mine when I had the RMS replaced last year. Seal was long gone, but looked in decent nick. More risk changing it than just leaving it where it is.
Clutches last forever - mine has its 1st replacement at 120k. Used to eat rear tyres in 6-8k, but I have PS4’s now and they are brilliant - grip well and last well.
Mine has a small rust bubble in the NS front arch I’ll get fixed this summer, but no other signs.
I budget c.£2k/yr for maintenance.
Check the rear arches in the upper part of the wheel well. There's a sheet metal fold that will be rusty. Other areas:Mine has a few mods now - Konis, H&R -30 springs, H&R arbs, all other suspension bits replaced, X74 alignment, RSS engine mounts, cup wheel, BMC filter and helmholtz bypass, full exhaust, rear wiper delete, continental DAB head unit and Alpine speaker upgrade.
Probably worth no more than £10k, but I can’t think of anything else that I could replace it with that would be as good an all rounder unless I spent a load more money.
Forget the IMS... it’s a non issue in cars that get driven regularly... Indy looked at mine when I had the RMS replaced last year. Seal was long gone, but looked in decent nick. More risk changing it than just leaving it where it is.
Clutches last forever - mine has its 1st replacement at 120k. Used to eat rear tyres in 6-8k, but I have PS4’s now and they are brilliant - grip well and last well.
Mine has a small rust bubble in the NS front arch I’ll get fixed this summer, but no other signs.
I budget c.£2k/yr for maintenance.
Edited by Chris Stott on Saturday 18th May 18:07
Top of rear tunnel, where gearbox meets engine
Above steering rack
Under the undertrays, especially where there are drainage holes in the floor structure
Edited by jimPH on Saturday 18th May 22:39
cvega said:
You could go for the next trouble proof 911 which is... 997.2. well in the IMS department anyway , they still score bore. 35,40k ?
I bought one of the "cheapest" 996s two years ago, with 140k on it. Once it grenades itself, I'll have a full hartech rebuild and have a 20k bombproof 911. Choices....
I don’t believe the 2nd gen engines bore score. Completely different design that addresses that and does away with the IMS tooI bought one of the "cheapest" 996s two years ago, with 140k on it. Once it grenades itself, I'll have a full hartech rebuild and have a 20k bombproof 911. Choices....
Edited by cvega on Saturday 18th May 12:44
Edited by cvega on Saturday 18th May 12:44
My experiences with 9X7 cars (have owned 3) has been that the 2 year old one was fine for 4 year up to 70,000 miles before I sold it. The older ones I bought (14 year old 987s and 6 year old 997 c4s) needed £1000’s spending on them per year. £2k a year is doable if it’s well maintained up to that point not just service stamps but other bits too
Radiators and air con condensers corrode
Front wheel arches corrode, bodge to repair on a long term keeper, correct fix is new panels and that’s £2k+ painted in
Exhaust studs and manifolds corrode
Gear linkage is weak point
Alternator cable terminals corrode and fail leading to hot restart issues
Coil packs crack / fail
Front end suspension will be v tired on any 9X6 if not replaced and can cost up to £3k if it all needs doing shocks / springs / wishbones / bushes / drop links / arb etc
I had a steering rack fail
I had a 997 gearbox fail that is apparently rare (£4K)
Pse valve failed twice
Coolant pipes corrode due to stupid bi-metal design, a pig to replace as Cmoose referenced earlier
That’s before the potential engine issues that i dodged on 4 of my Porsche’s. The threat did kill the enjoyment a little though
It’s honestly possibly cheaper overall to buy a 981S with a loan and enjoy several years of low running costs
I loved all of mine but I’d budget £2k a year to run if you want an older one that drives well
There will be loads of people saying all mine needed was an oil change every 2 years but that’s not my experience of running them and I bet if you checked them out there would be a long list of impending work and sub optimal component condition. I like to keep my cars a1 so they drive like new that’s really the point of a drivers car like a Porsche.
Esceptico said:
I really don’t like the base 996.1 shape yet in GT3 form I think it looks great. Amazing how simple changes make such a difference. Of course GT3 also much better in other ways too. Gratuitous pic.
Quoted just to see it again. The 996 gt3 is a car I would have over many things Porsche and un-Porsche.My 996 turbo also was a car I bought for its performance not looks or sound but the looks really grew on me. It has some beautiful functionally aerodynamic shapes with the ram operated double spoiler and silky curves around the rear wings. Even the turbo wheels and details like the wing mirrors are perfectly in tune with the styling.
I didn't ever fall in love with the sound and having to drop the engine for a tiny repair on top to a leaky high pressure oil line, and then again for a leaky clutch slave cylinder was the end of the ownership joy for me.. but that said I'd do it all again and still browse the classifieds from time to time looking at GT3s
d! Buy while you can!!!Biased, but I love mine. I agree on what others are saying, budget a £2k maintainance bill on average a year - I do around 5k miles per annum on that. Half of that is age stuff that mine was due and won't need for a long while again though, I think a lot are at that awkward age. I just did a pair of engine mounts for £150 as a one hour driveway job, but then last year the oil cooler went and it was almost a £1k job with the engine out - you win some you lose some.
Performance wise they're still quick cars! I know 300hp isn't mega these days, but it is actually quite light for its size at 1300kg. Compared to a friends S3 which is 300hp, but then 1500kg which people still call 'quick'.
Mines got the aerokit which makes it look like a faux GT3. I don't think it's an ugly car!
Performance wise they're still quick cars! I know 300hp isn't mega these days, but it is actually quite light for its size at 1300kg. Compared to a friends S3 which is 300hp, but then 1500kg which people still call 'quick'.
Mines got the aerokit which makes it look like a faux GT3. I don't think it's an ugly car!
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