Is the engine the most important part of the car for you?
Discussion
cerb4.5lee said:
So do you prioritise the engine in a car or can you turn a blind eye to the engine and just enjoy the overall package. I really like the new 3 series but I wouldn't buy a 320d yet I'd be really happy in the 330i/M340i.
If the overall package has good handling and a decent ride I can live with a so-so engine. Otherwise the meh will indeed overwhelm the experience in a fun car.The daily on the other hand needs comfort, speed and needs to have a great sounding audio system.
I think the engine plays a huge role. I'd probably have kept my Mk7 Fiesta ST for a while longer if the engine was more characterful. While the chassis was absolutely brilliant I found that I really missed revving the engine out to the redline. My MK2 MR2 was about equal in power but I enjoyed driving it more due to the lust for revs it had. Hearing that motor zinging along at 6500rpm is probably more memorable than chucking the Fiesta into corners at high speed. Both were immensely fun though.
Depends entirely on the car.
The 5 cylinder turbo in my Fiat Coupe dominates the experience. The sound and boost is exhilarating and addictive.
The engine in my RX8 is wonderful to interact with on a twisty road and makes you work for it. And is silky smooth when driven gently. But despite that the handling is the best thing about the car.
A modded red block Volvo is a great mix of brawn and old school analogue feel. But it is probably the suprise the car generates that it the best thing!
Horses for courses
Better to have specific tools for each job instead of a spork of a car!
The 5 cylinder turbo in my Fiat Coupe dominates the experience. The sound and boost is exhilarating and addictive.
The engine in my RX8 is wonderful to interact with on a twisty road and makes you work for it. And is silky smooth when driven gently. But despite that the handling is the best thing about the car.
A modded red block Volvo is a great mix of brawn and old school analogue feel. But it is probably the suprise the car generates that it the best thing!
Horses for courses
Better to have specific tools for each job instead of a spork of a car!
Different cars have different sources of appeal - in some cars the engine is the stand-out feature, in others it's just a means to enjoy the chassis. Either engine or chassis can be enjoyed in isolation or in combination.
A really bad - unpredictable - chassis can ruin any car for me, however even a car with a terrible engine can be fun going down a mountain. So I guess a basic level of predictable behaviour and trust in the car's cornering is the bare minimum. Beyond that, a good engine or a good chassis can make a car fun.
No, engine isn't most important.
A well balanced car in terms of power, handling & braking is the best, regardless of weather the engine is good, bad or otherwise. I've driven cars that were hampered by a lack of power & other that were hampered by too much in relation to the rest of the package - best car for a thrash I ever had was a Sunny GTI - not spectacular in any department, but perfectly balanced in all aspects & much fun because of it!
I'm a lover of V6's, but hankering after them has delivered a few reasonably powerful but ultimately unsatisfying cars...... Lovely sound doesn't make up for turd handling.
A well balanced car in terms of power, handling & braking is the best, regardless of weather the engine is good, bad or otherwise. I've driven cars that were hampered by a lack of power & other that were hampered by too much in relation to the rest of the package - best car for a thrash I ever had was a Sunny GTI - not spectacular in any department, but perfectly balanced in all aspects & much fun because of it!
I'm a lover of V6's, but hankering after them has delivered a few reasonably powerful but ultimately unsatisfying cars...... Lovely sound doesn't make up for turd handling.
Honda K20's undoubtedly a great engine, but I never gelled with an S2000 in the same way I did with a number of MX5's. I'd love a mint MX5 based, Rocketer with the Jag V6, I think that would be my sweet spot.
Same experience as many with 320d's, but i always put that down to over hype in the press, in hindsight it was down to the engine.
Same experience as many with 320d's, but i always put that down to over hype in the press, in hindsight it was down to the engine.
aeropilot said:
Depends.........can be a real hoot.
Some 35 years ago, I bought a cheapo stopgap car while undertaking some serious surgery on my RS2000....
It was Marina TC coupe, and it was a pile of poo..........way worse than anything cited by Clarkson and Co on TG in recent years. The B Series (MGB) engine was a torguey and robust enough lump of cast iron, but BL did nothing else to it at all. So, the Morris Minor gearbox that the Marina was equipped with was not up to the task (I only had the car 6 month and went through 2 gearboxes in that period!) and the suspension was the stuff of comedy along with the 145 section remoulds
BUT.......it was huge fun, oversteer and understeer could be had in equal amounts at any time all at a safe 15mph speed, so it was a great skills improvement tool, like driving everyday on an old fashioned skid pan
Around 25yrs ago I too had a Marina GT Coupe after a MK2 Escort got stolen back in the NE. Although it handled like a bag of spanners, compared to the Escort (only a 1.3gl) the Marina went sideways easier and the engine was bomb proof, got thoroughly abused and never missed a beat. Some 35 years ago, I bought a cheapo stopgap car while undertaking some serious surgery on my RS2000....
It was Marina TC coupe, and it was a pile of poo..........way worse than anything cited by Clarkson and Co on TG in recent years. The B Series (MGB) engine was a torguey and robust enough lump of cast iron, but BL did nothing else to it at all. So, the Morris Minor gearbox that the Marina was equipped with was not up to the task (I only had the car 6 month and went through 2 gearboxes in that period!) and the suspension was the stuff of comedy along with the 145 section remoulds
BUT.......it was huge fun, oversteer and understeer could be had in equal amounts at any time all at a safe 15mph speed, so it was a great skills improvement tool, like driving everyday on an old fashioned skid pan
For years as a youngster it was always about going faster. Nowadays it's more about handling and stopping better, if the engine is a Corker then that's the icing on the cake. Currently have an Alfa Gulietta 170jtdm and an e46 330ci (slowly getting converted to track toy).
Engine / drivetrain doesn't have to have massive power, but for me it at the very least does have to be (A) responsive with decent torque. If it (B) sounds great and has decent top end, that's a bonus. But if an engine / drivetrain is slow and unresponsive, sounds coarse / strained and is gutless, then a great chassis would struggle to make up for it.
That means that many cars will be fine with characteristics noted at A (e.g., something like an E or S class will be fine with A, as does new Alpine and Lotuses always have done so etc.; but a nostalgia car (such as an a/c 911, Ur-Quattro, modern GT3 or any Mustang etc.) has to sound good as well, therefore B for those. (I don't care how competent a non-V8 Stang might be, if it didn't sing V8 at you, you'd leave it back.)
So while an engine doesn't have to be operatic and characterful, it certainly does have to be at least competent and if it fails even that basic test, that'd be it for me I'm afraid.
That means that many cars will be fine with characteristics noted at A (e.g., something like an E or S class will be fine with A, as does new Alpine and Lotuses always have done so etc.; but a nostalgia car (such as an a/c 911, Ur-Quattro, modern GT3 or any Mustang etc.) has to sound good as well, therefore B for those. (I don't care how competent a non-V8 Stang might be, if it didn't sing V8 at you, you'd leave it back.)
So while an engine doesn't have to be operatic and characterful, it certainly does have to be at least competent and if it fails even that basic test, that'd be it for me I'm afraid.
It depends on your priorities I think. Our daily had to enough grunt to make short work of trips to Europe and the daily commute. 440i with pretty much all the toys is a decent compromise.
The fun car its again a compromise between handling and engine. The Zed isn't the best handling car in the world but on Michelin pilot super sports I find it a hoot to drive and revving out a S54 is just brilliant.
Its replacement will be better handling, more practical but alas FI. I'll mourn losing an NA engine but probably be a lot happier with a more rounded package.
The fun car its again a compromise between handling and engine. The Zed isn't the best handling car in the world but on Michelin pilot super sports I find it a hoot to drive and revving out a S54 is just brilliant.
Its replacement will be better handling, more practical but alas FI. I'll mourn losing an NA engine but probably be a lot happier with a more rounded package.
cerb4.5lee said:
mwstewart said:
It's the heart of the machine. For me it's right up there - it's the difference between a good car and a great car.
This mirrors how i feel too and I do/have always placed a very strong priority on the engine for sure. If I haven't got on with the engine...then I haven't really got on with the car either. M44krv said:
aeropilot said:
Depends.........can be a real hoot.
Some 35 years ago, I bought a cheapo stopgap car while undertaking some serious surgery on my RS2000....
It was Marina TC coupe, and it was a pile of poo..........way worse than anything cited by Clarkson and Co on TG in recent years. The B Series (MGB) engine was a torguey and robust enough lump of cast iron, but BL did nothing else to it at all. So, the Morris Minor gearbox that the Marina was equipped with was not up to the task (I only had the car 6 month and went through 2 gearboxes in that period!) and the suspension was the stuff of comedy along with the 145 section remoulds
BUT.......it was huge fun, oversteer and understeer could be had in equal amounts at any time all at a safe 15mph speed, so it was a great skills improvement tool, like driving everyday on an old fashioned skid pan
Around 25yrs ago I too had a Marina GT Coupe after a MK2 Escort got stolen back in the NE. Although it handled like a bag of spanners, compared to the Escort (only a 1.3gl) the Marina went sideways easier and the engine was bomb proof, got thoroughly abused and never missed a beat. Some 35 years ago, I bought a cheapo stopgap car while undertaking some serious surgery on my RS2000....
It was Marina TC coupe, and it was a pile of poo..........way worse than anything cited by Clarkson and Co on TG in recent years. The B Series (MGB) engine was a torguey and robust enough lump of cast iron, but BL did nothing else to it at all. So, the Morris Minor gearbox that the Marina was equipped with was not up to the task (I only had the car 6 month and went through 2 gearboxes in that period!) and the suspension was the stuff of comedy along with the 145 section remoulds
BUT.......it was huge fun, oversteer and understeer could be had in equal amounts at any time all at a safe 15mph speed, so it was a great skills improvement tool, like driving everyday on an old fashioned skid pan
For years as a youngster it was always about going faster. Nowadays it's more about handling and stopping better, if the engine is a Corker then that's the icing on the cake. Currently have an Alfa Gulietta 170jtdm and an e46 330ci (slowly getting converted to track toy).
Your saving graces were that you both had a Rwd Escort as a choice and the Marina's were a necessity.
Howrare said:
Honda K20's undoubtedly a great engine, but I never gelled with an S2000 in the same way I did with a number of MX5's. I'd love a mint MX5 based, Rocketer with the Jag V6, I think that would be my sweet spot.
Same experience as many with 320d's, but i always put that down to over hype in the press, in hindsight it was down to the engine.
Minor point, the S2000 doesn't have the K20. It has the F20.Same experience as many with 320d's, but i always put that down to over hype in the press, in hindsight it was down to the engine.
aeropilot said:
Chewbacca North said:
Being an American car fan it's ALL about the engine.
Kids these days are a bit different. Young lad at work getting his first company car answered my question of "What's it got?", to which anyone my age would have answered with the engine, he replied, 4 USB ports.
Kids these days are a bit different. Young lad at work getting his first company car answered my question of "What's it got?", to which anyone my age would have answered with the engine, he replied, 4 USB ports.
But equally depressing at the same time....
to bothMuscleSaloon said:
A bit of a simple view, but If its not a V8 petrol its white goods to me.
Sure, I've owned, enjoyed, and appreciate all sorts of other engine configurations in countless different cars of all ages.
But it always comes back to the same thing for me.
this is my take on things too - V8 please, V6 at a push. Sure, I've owned, enjoyed, and appreciate all sorts of other engine configurations in countless different cars of all ages.
But it always comes back to the same thing for me.
I flirted with a TT a few years ago and while I didn't hate it, I certainly wasn't a fan - for me my Crossfires were far better (V6) but I really missed an 8
Novexx said:
No, engine isn't most important.
A well balanced car in terms of power, handling & braking is the best, regardless of weather the engine is good, bad or otherwise. I've driven cars that were hampered by a lack of power & other that were hampered by too much in relation to the rest of the package - best car for a thrash I ever had was a Sunny GTI - not spectacular in any department, but perfectly balanced in all aspects & much fun because of it!
I'm a lover of V6's, but hankering after them has delivered a few reasonably powerful but ultimately unsatisfying cars...... Lovely sound doesn't make up for turd handling.
I drive an mx-5 daily. It's ok, fun to plant around roundabouts the handlings fun but I wish the engine had more oomph. I keep looking at BBR upgrades. So at the moment it's roof down and enjoy the sunshine whilst commuting.A well balanced car in terms of power, handling & braking is the best, regardless of weather the engine is good, bad or otherwise. I've driven cars that were hampered by a lack of power & other that were hampered by too much in relation to the rest of the package - best car for a thrash I ever had was a Sunny GTI - not spectacular in any department, but perfectly balanced in all aspects & much fun because of it!
I'm a lover of V6's, but hankering after them has delivered a few reasonably powerful but ultimately unsatisfying cars...... Lovely sound doesn't make up for turd handling.
But the TVR ajp8, you can forgive everything for that engine, the responsiveness, the noise, the pops and bangs on overrun.
I don't think you can win either way. My EP3 CTR had a great engine and gearbox but what spoilt it for me was the steering.
My TVR wedge handled and braked for crap tbh honest but with that V8 did I care?
My old E46 M Sport 320cD barge has a crap engine but the styling, solidity and rwd handling means I love it nonetheless.
It's why those rare cars that get closer than most to getting everything right tend to be very expensive and collectible imho.......... E46 M3?
My TVR wedge handled and braked for crap tbh honest but with that V8 did I care?
My old E46 M Sport 320cD barge has a crap engine but the styling, solidity and rwd handling means I love it nonetheless.
It's why those rare cars that get closer than most to getting everything right tend to be very expensive and collectible imho.......... E46 M3?
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