RE: Toyota Celica GT-Four ST205 | Spotted
Discussion
I don't think it's U.K. dealers pushing prices higher and higher, as much as prices in Japan rising and the value of Sterling falling. That we're no longer seeing many imports coming to the U.K. is given by rising prices on 90's icons in Japan. Just look at how few Skyline GT-R's, Supras, etc. are being imported now. Far fewer than in the years they were cheaper to buy in Japan.
Being a 1998 this GT-4 is one of the last built, is in lovely condition, so an example like this is especially rare desirable in Japan and currently fetching around £11- 12K at auctions there. Add to that the costs of shipping, duties, etc. and the price doesn't appear so unrealistic. Look at other rally fugitives of Europe such as Integrales, or Escort Cosworths and Japanese cars, such as this - which were better, start to look undervalued, really - but there will be adjustment at some point...
I think comparing this example to pre-facelift GT-4's of higher mileage that have been in the U.K. several years, or U.K. cars is probably unrealistic in terms of pricing, since the U.K. is so much harsher a climate for these cars. They rust underneath, etc.
Comparing pricing of a 1994 GT4 to a 1998 would be like comparing a Rev 3 MR2 Turbo, to a Rev 5. One costs a helluva lot more than the other to buy in Japan, - in part due to rarity & collectability no doubt.
The U.S. is now also eligible for the early (1994) examples, which will serve to inflate prices further, where demand exceeds supply. All 90's icons are going up in price,,,
The replacement cost of stock like this once sold rises over time therefore, so these factors should be expected to be reflected in the price.
If the dealer doesn't sell it, the value will probably continue to go up in line with market prices dictated by the Japanese market, being that's where the car appears to currently be stored..
... Maybe they don't really want to sell it?
Being a 1998 this GT-4 is one of the last built, is in lovely condition, so an example like this is especially rare desirable in Japan and currently fetching around £11- 12K at auctions there. Add to that the costs of shipping, duties, etc. and the price doesn't appear so unrealistic. Look at other rally fugitives of Europe such as Integrales, or Escort Cosworths and Japanese cars, such as this - which were better, start to look undervalued, really - but there will be adjustment at some point...
I think comparing this example to pre-facelift GT-4's of higher mileage that have been in the U.K. several years, or U.K. cars is probably unrealistic in terms of pricing, since the U.K. is so much harsher a climate for these cars. They rust underneath, etc.
Comparing pricing of a 1994 GT4 to a 1998 would be like comparing a Rev 3 MR2 Turbo, to a Rev 5. One costs a helluva lot more than the other to buy in Japan, - in part due to rarity & collectability no doubt.
The U.S. is now also eligible for the early (1994) examples, which will serve to inflate prices further, where demand exceeds supply. All 90's icons are going up in price,,,
The replacement cost of stock like this once sold rises over time therefore, so these factors should be expected to be reflected in the price.
If the dealer doesn't sell it, the value will probably continue to go up in line with market prices dictated by the Japanese market, being that's where the car appears to currently be stored..
... Maybe they don't really want to sell it?
Edited by Petrolism on Thursday 13th June 04:32
kainedog said:
I guess these could make 300 bhp with out too much work and be more reliable than evos and Scoobys? I'd have one given the choice as not so common
300bhp out of the st205 was easy enough. Mine was about 320bhp for 16k miles but a piston ring land broke up which wasn't uncommon on stock engines.Forged rebuild at the time was 5k fitted with new turbo, made 354bhp and was quick. Timed 0-60 in wet was 4s, 0-100mph in 10.9s on a box.
It would hang the back end out in the damp or wet and just pull out of bends like a hooligan :-)
Loved mine.
Petrolism said:
I don't think it's U.K. dealers pushing prices higher and higher, as much as prices in Japan rising and the value of Sterling falling. That we're no longer seeing many imports coming to the U.K. is given by rising prices on 90's icons in Japan. Just look at how few Skyline GT-R's, Supras, etc. are being imported now. Far fewer than in the years they were cheaper to buy in Japan.
Being a 1998 this GT-4 is one of the last built, is in lovely condition, so an example like this is especially rare desirable in Japan and currently fetching around £11- 12K at auctions there. Add to that the costs of shipping, duties, etc. and the price doesn't appear so unrealistic. Look at other rally fugitives of Europe such as Integrales, or Escort Cosworths and Japanese cars, such as this - which were better, start to look undervalued, really - but there will be adjustment at some point...
I think comparing this example to pre-facelift GT-4's of higher mileage that have been in the U.K. several years, or U.K. cars is probably unrealistic in terms of pricing, since the U.K. is so much harsher a climate for these cars. They rust underneath, etc.
Comparing pricing of a 1994 GT4 to a 1998 would be like comparing a Rev 3 MR2 Turbo, to a Rev 5. One costs a helluva lot more than the other to buy in Japan, - in part due to rarity & collectability no doubt.
The U.S. is now also eligible for the early (1994) examples, which will serve to inflate prices further, where demand exceeds supply. All 90's icons are going up in price,,,
The replacement cost of stock like this once sold rises over time therefore, so these factors should be expected to be reflected in the price.
If the dealer doesn't sell it, the value will probably continue to go up in line with market prices dictated by the Japanese market, being that's where the car appears to currently be stored..
... Maybe they don't really want to sell it?
The early models are the best. Mine being a 1995 means it doesn't have all that added weight of homologation rubbish like antilag etc which doesn't work anyway. No sunroof, no ABS and no airbags. Mine tipped the scales at 1360 on a weight bridge which is relatively light weight for a 4WD car especially when things like Focus RS and RS3's are nearly 300KG's heavier! Being a 1998 this GT-4 is one of the last built, is in lovely condition, so an example like this is especially rare desirable in Japan and currently fetching around £11- 12K at auctions there. Add to that the costs of shipping, duties, etc. and the price doesn't appear so unrealistic. Look at other rally fugitives of Europe such as Integrales, or Escort Cosworths and Japanese cars, such as this - which were better, start to look undervalued, really - but there will be adjustment at some point...
I think comparing this example to pre-facelift GT-4's of higher mileage that have been in the U.K. several years, or U.K. cars is probably unrealistic in terms of pricing, since the U.K. is so much harsher a climate for these cars. They rust underneath, etc.
Comparing pricing of a 1994 GT4 to a 1998 would be like comparing a Rev 3 MR2 Turbo, to a Rev 5. One costs a helluva lot more than the other to buy in Japan, - in part due to rarity & collectability no doubt.
The U.S. is now also eligible for the early (1994) examples, which will serve to inflate prices further, where demand exceeds supply. All 90's icons are going up in price,,,
The replacement cost of stock like this once sold rises over time therefore, so these factors should be expected to be reflected in the price.
If the dealer doesn't sell it, the value will probably continue to go up in line with market prices dictated by the Japanese market, being that's where the car appears to currently be stored..
... Maybe they don't really want to sell it?
Edited by Petrolism on Thursday 13th June 04:32
BricktopST205 said:
The early models are the best. Mine being a 1995 means it doesn't have all that added weight of homologation rubbish like antilag etc which doesn't work anyway. No sunroof, no ABS and no airbags. Mine tipped the scales at 1360 on a weight bridge which is relatively light weight for a 4WD car especially when things like Focus RS and RS3's are nearly 300KG's heavier!
Yes there is no real difference between late ones and early ones - WRC ones had the deactivated rally mods such as spray bar and anti-lag but as you say don't actually do anything and if you do go through re-activating them they would lunch the standard engine/clutch etc in no time!The smart buyer buys on condition rather than pre or post facelift, in fact most owners I spoke to prefered the earlier WRC spoiler to the face lifted three post spoilers for instance. Mine was a 1995 non-WRC, but had ABS sunroof the sought after OEM visor and fittings etc. and sold at a very nice premium vs other cars on the market.
The dealer selling this one wont shift it unless a really clueless buyer comes along.
Have had mine for ten and a half years.
Looked like this when I bought it:
Then, after various modifications and upgrades, I had it resprayed (same colour) and a Castrol livery put on in 2012:
Had the decals refreshed late last year and it's still going strong, now on just over 140,000 miles on the original engine (was on 82K when I got it).
Not my daily driver any more though, my wife uses it to go to the shops and the gym in but I do 18,000 miles a year now so I don't want to put that on it!
Looked like this when I bought it:
Then, after various modifications and upgrades, I had it resprayed (same colour) and a Castrol livery put on in 2012:
Had the decals refreshed late last year and it's still going strong, now on just over 140,000 miles on the original engine (was on 82K when I got it).
Not my daily driver any more though, my wife uses it to go to the shops and the gym in but I do 18,000 miles a year now so I don't want to put that on it!
This was mine, ha e regretted selling it ever since and have first dibs when the owner decides to sell it I can still afford it. I know what everyone’s getting at about the dealers and prices, I guess I’m just gutted that all the old jap stuff is going crazy. And I agree that there are very few differences mechanically between early and late specs. Rev3-5 is like comparing an st205 with a 185 (non Cs model) which I still love anyway.
As another poster has said above these cars are not getting any cheaper to buy at source and the flow of decent genuine low mileage good grade cars coming to the UK has now all but dried up.Had a quick look on Goo net for current GT4 prices in Japan,how much would this bad boy cost on the road in the uk,not got a clue but alot I'd imagine!!
http://www.goo-net-exchange.com/usedcars/TOYOTA/CE...
http://www.goo-net-exchange.com/usedcars/TOYOTA/CE...
gazchap said:
Have had mine for ten and a half years.
Looked like this when I bought it:
Then, after various modifications and upgrades, I had it resprayed (same colour) and a Castrol livery put on in 2012:
Had the decals refreshed late last year and it's still going strong, now on just over 140,000 miles on the original engine (was on 82K when I got it).
Not my daily driver any more though, my wife uses it to go to the shops and the gym in but I do 18,000 miles a year now so I don't want to put that on it!
Hadn't seen it round Shrewsbury for a while so I wondered if you still had it!Looked like this when I bought it:
Then, after various modifications and upgrades, I had it resprayed (same colour) and a Castrol livery put on in 2012:
Had the decals refreshed late last year and it's still going strong, now on just over 140,000 miles on the original engine (was on 82K when I got it).
Not my daily driver any more though, my wife uses it to go to the shops and the gym in but I do 18,000 miles a year now so I don't want to put that on it!
evojam said:
As another poster has said above these cars are not getting any cheaper to buy at source and the flow of decent genuine low mileage good grade cars coming to the UK has now all but dried up.Had a quick look on Goo net for current GT4 prices in Japan,how much would this bad boy cost on the road in the uk,not got a clue but alot I'd imagine!!
http://www.goo-net-exchange.com/usedcars/TOYOTA/CE...
Nice, although the rad will need replacing pretty much straight away!http://www.goo-net-exchange.com/usedcars/TOYOTA/CE...
Engine bays on these do look good with the cooler in place, here was mine, detailed to within an inch of its life!
09 said:it’s certainly nothing like comparing two different models of a Célica GT-4 (ST205 and ST185) with totally different body panels, interior and many other component differences!
Edited by Petrolism on Thursday 13th June 22:17
evojam said:
As another poster has said above these cars are not getting any cheaper to buy at source and the flow of decent genuine low mileage good grade cars coming to the UK has now all but dried up.Had a quick look on Goo net for current GT4 prices in Japan,how much would this bad boy cost on the road in the uk,not got a clue but alot I'd imagine!!
http://www.goo-net-exchange.com/usedcars/TOYOTA/CE...
It would cost well over double to buy and import that white one from the dealer in Japan -, compared to this Silver one offered on Pistonheads.http://www.goo-net-exchange.com/usedcars/TOYOTA/CE...
I’ve watched the same thing happen with other models (M3’s, Skyline GT-R’s, Supras, Evos, etc) where some enthusiasts in the U.K. reckon a grey import car isn’t worth what’s being asked, irrespective of prices at source (Japan).
Meanwhile other markets like the U.S. will pay willingly and strongly for them.
Look at what Supras are fetching in the U.S. ($100k USD isn’t unusual for nice ones - even with higher mileages) and it becomes not inconceivable that Célica GT4’s are destined to rise...
The same naysayers may be surprised when none of these cars come in any more (and the number of remaining cars on U.K. roads dwindle) when prices elsewhere continue to increase.
It’s (lack of) supply and (increased) demand combined with nostalgia that causes modern classics to appreciate. This - in combination with a lack of enthusiasm for the way modern cars are developing, being ever heavier and loaded with complicated electronics, decreased feel and less soul.
Those who understand why the 90’s icons of Japan are special & therefore destined to rise will wisely hang onto theirs.
The days of plentiful Celica GT-4’s are over. Check back in a few years’ time and see the difference then...
Edited by Petrolism on Thursday 13th June 23:28
gazchap said:
s m said:
Hadn't seen it round Shrewsbury for a while so I wondered if you still had it!
Heh, don't live in Shrewsbury any more - now living near Ironbridge.Still work in Shrews though so once in a blue moon I do drive it into work in the morning!
That is a great 'commute' on a quiet morning
I’m not saying that I can’t understand why 90’s jap cars are going up in value I’m saying that the amount being asked for some is ridiculous especially like this grey one that was half the price a few years ago and didn’t even sell back then.
To put it in perspective the white one I’m about to show that’s owned by mishimoto and up for sale for 13.5k is worth every single penny! Anyone that saw it magazine featured or in the flesh at japfest will vouch for the spec and how clean it is. If I had the money I would have it tomorrow. I guess I’m just gutted because All the jap stuff will be out of reach by the time I don’t need a diesel anymore.
And yes I’m well aware the bodies on the 185 and 205 are very different, that’s not what I was getting at but I can’t be arsed to turn this in to a big argument
To put it in perspective the white one I’m about to show that’s owned by mishimoto and up for sale for 13.5k is worth every single penny! Anyone that saw it magazine featured or in the flesh at japfest will vouch for the spec and how clean it is. If I had the money I would have it tomorrow. I guess I’m just gutted because All the jap stuff will be out of reach by the time I don’t need a diesel anymore.
And yes I’m well aware the bodies on the 185 and 205 are very different, that’s not what I was getting at but I can’t be arsed to turn this in to a big argument
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff