RE: Ford Fiesta ST M225 | Driven
Discussion
Frimley111R said:
J4CKO said:
You do realise car manufacturers have designers who have degrees in engineering, they do all sorts of testing, use different materials, better tolerances and design the engines to operate at that level. They dont just take a 2.0 pinto, hacksaw a cylinder off, whack a turbo on and crank up the boost.
The difference is with downsized engines is that the cooling circuit is much more critical. an old Pinto could lose its coolant and you could quite happily drive, get it off the road and wait for the AA, possibly even, if it was cold out, drive gently home and it would most likely survive, these new ones, producing much more power from a much smaller block, with the heat of a turbo, just dont have any margin to absorb and dissipate all that heat generated if the cooling fails and it all gets a bit like a Curly Wurly left on a dashboard in Spain, in August.
So, the disasters are, if your cooling lets go, the Degas pipe on the 1 litre Ecoboosts was substandard, been improved but I have heard of people having engine failures like that, and my brother just caught his wifes B max in time.
So, if you have an engine like that, keep as close an eye on the coolant side of things as the oil.
i bet manufacturers wish you could make a 3 cylinder like that The difference is with downsized engines is that the cooling circuit is much more critical. an old Pinto could lose its coolant and you could quite happily drive, get it off the road and wait for the AA, possibly even, if it was cold out, drive gently home and it would most likely survive, these new ones, producing much more power from a much smaller block, with the heat of a turbo, just dont have any margin to absorb and dissipate all that heat generated if the cooling fails and it all gets a bit like a Curly Wurly left on a dashboard in Spain, in August.
So, the disasters are, if your cooling lets go, the Degas pipe on the 1 litre Ecoboosts was substandard, been improved but I have heard of people having engine failures like that, and my brother just caught his wifes B max in time.
So, if you have an engine like that, keep as close an eye on the coolant side of things as the oil.
Interesting post though.
Would be very interested to hear fords thoughts.
Normally you dont really put any "headroom" in it (if it isnt a purely detuned version of a higher powered engine), depending on how you define it of course. Every part is calculated to achieve a certain failure rate for the fleet of cars you have out there and you run the engine against those limits. Any increase in performance will reduce life expectancy. For the UK with its cold weather and flat landscape (mostly), and reasonably good fuel they could probably accept the increased performance and wear, thermal loads in general were probably within reason . But maybe they have seen that its not good enough any more for their current demands. maybe they are afraid of cat life expecancy in combination with RDE demands with the latest Eu6 demands.
Normally you dont really put any "headroom" in it (if it isnt a purely detuned version of a higher powered engine), depending on how you define it of course. Every part is calculated to achieve a certain failure rate for the fleet of cars you have out there and you run the engine against those limits. Any increase in performance will reduce life expectancy. For the UK with its cold weather and flat landscape (mostly), and reasonably good fuel they could probably accept the increased performance and wear, thermal loads in general were probably within reason . But maybe they have seen that its not good enough any more for their current demands. maybe they are afraid of cat life expecancy in combination with RDE demands with the latest Eu6 demands.
CedricN said:
Would be very interested to hear fords thoughts.
Normally you dont really put any "headroom" in it (if it isnt a purely detuned version of a higher powered engine), depending on how you define it of course. Every part is calculated to achieve a certain failure rate for the fleet of cars you have out there and you run the engine against those limits. Any increase in performance will reduce life expectancy. For the UK with its cold weather and flat landscape (mostly), and reasonably good fuel they could probably accept the increased performance and wear, thermal loads in general were probably within reason . But maybe they have seen that its not good enough any more for their current demands. maybe they are afraid of cat life expecancy in combination with RDE demands with the latest Eu6 demands.
All pertinent points. The headroom I mentioned wasn't 'engineered for future uplifts', more to compensate for all possible operating conditions, e.g. extreme heat, poor octane, high ethanol, etc. Question is whether this is up to 12.5% of claimed power output.Normally you dont really put any "headroom" in it (if it isnt a purely detuned version of a higher powered engine), depending on how you define it of course. Every part is calculated to achieve a certain failure rate for the fleet of cars you have out there and you run the engine against those limits. Any increase in performance will reduce life expectancy. For the UK with its cold weather and flat landscape (mostly), and reasonably good fuel they could probably accept the increased performance and wear, thermal loads in general were probably within reason . But maybe they have seen that its not good enough any more for their current demands. maybe they are afraid of cat life expecancy in combination with RDE demands with the latest Eu6 demands.
The mountune upgrade kits are not as modular as they first appear. I purchased the warranty backed MR215 upgrade for my MK7, which has proved flawless. That said;
Brake upgrade; sold out for months.
Baffled sump. Sold out
Sports cat. Sold out
Both suspension packages. Sold out...
But most annoying of all.. MR215 to 230 upgrade? Yup sold out! MR 265 upgrade, no longer produced.
Whilst I am delighted with the product I initially bought, future Mountune upgrades are not particularly modular or seamless due to lack of availability..
I must also add that Ford have honoured all warranty and recall work, after I installed the mountune MR 215 kit. Retaining the factory warranty was huge part of the appeal for me.
Brake upgrade; sold out for months.
Baffled sump. Sold out
Sports cat. Sold out
Both suspension packages. Sold out...
But most annoying of all.. MR215 to 230 upgrade? Yup sold out! MR 265 upgrade, no longer produced.
Whilst I am delighted with the product I initially bought, future Mountune upgrades are not particularly modular or seamless due to lack of availability..
I must also add that Ford have honoured all warranty and recall work, after I installed the mountune MR 215 kit. Retaining the factory warranty was huge part of the appeal for me.
Frimley111R said:
J4CKO said:
You do realise car manufacturers have designers who have degrees in engineering, they do all sorts of testing, use different materials, better tolerances and design the engines to operate at that level. They dont just take a 2.0 pinto, hacksaw a cylinder off, whack a turbo on and crank up the boost.
The difference is with downsized engines is that the cooling circuit is much more critical. an old Pinto could lose its coolant and you could quite happily drive, get it off the road and wait for the AA, possibly even, if it was cold out, drive gently home and it would most likely survive, these new ones, producing much more power from a much smaller block, with the heat of a turbo, just dont have any margin to absorb and dissipate all that heat generated if the cooling fails and it all gets a bit like a Curly Wurly left on a dashboard in Spain, in August.
So, the disasters are, if your cooling lets go, the Degas pipe on the 1 litre Ecoboosts was substandard, been improved but I have heard of people having engine failures like that, and my brother just caught his wifes B max in time.
So, if you have an engine like that, keep as close an eye on the coolant side of things as the oil.
i bet manufacturers wish you could make a 3 cylinder like that The difference is with downsized engines is that the cooling circuit is much more critical. an old Pinto could lose its coolant and you could quite happily drive, get it off the road and wait for the AA, possibly even, if it was cold out, drive gently home and it would most likely survive, these new ones, producing much more power from a much smaller block, with the heat of a turbo, just dont have any margin to absorb and dissipate all that heat generated if the cooling fails and it all gets a bit like a Curly Wurly left on a dashboard in Spain, in August.
So, the disasters are, if your cooling lets go, the Degas pipe on the 1 litre Ecoboosts was substandard, been improved but I have heard of people having engine failures like that, and my brother just caught his wifes B max in time.
So, if you have an engine like that, keep as close an eye on the coolant side of things as the oil.
Interesting post though.
George Smiley said:
I didn’t think it was humanly possible to make a car more chav/council than the fiesta st yet somehow this pulls it off.
Isn't it good that we're all different so that the market can maintain some variety?I mean I think of Audi RS3s and Merc A45s (?) as a bit distasteful in comparison. Screams of finance and the farts and bangs seem so contrived. Seems like a totally different world than even 10 years ago where in general people worked their way up the stack, but I don't begrudge their existence.
To me the Ford approach is actually a bit more reserved in comparison. You seem to see allsorts driving STs and the new one looks far too reserved if anything. The only thing I didn't like about the Mk7.5 was the seats were a bit garish with the stitched 'ST' logo
...but then again other's wouldn't blink an eyelid.
CedricN said:
Would be very interested to hear fords thoughts.
Normally you dont really put any "headroom" in it (if it isnt a purely detuned version of a higher powered engine), depending on how you define it of course. Every part is calculated to achieve a certain failure rate for the fleet of cars you have out there and you run the engine against those limits. Any increase in performance will reduce life expectancy. For the UK with its cold weather and flat landscape (mostly), and reasonably good fuel they could probably accept the increased performance and wear, thermal loads in general were probably within reason . But maybe they have seen that its not good enough any more for their current demands. maybe they are afraid of cat life expecancy in combination with RDE demands with the latest Eu6 demands.
The MK8 ST lost a cylinder, capacity and valve area. IMO the only way they got the same power as the MK7 was by running more boost. That ate into the "headroom". The MK8 is all about taking cost out of the engine, and reducing emissions, the slipper and suspension just flatter the lower spec engine.Normally you dont really put any "headroom" in it (if it isnt a purely detuned version of a higher powered engine), depending on how you define it of course. Every part is calculated to achieve a certain failure rate for the fleet of cars you have out there and you run the engine against those limits. Any increase in performance will reduce life expectancy. For the UK with its cold weather and flat landscape (mostly), and reasonably good fuel they could probably accept the increased performance and wear, thermal loads in general were probably within reason . But maybe they have seen that its not good enough any more for their current demands. maybe they are afraid of cat life expecancy in combination with RDE demands with the latest Eu6 demands.
Water Fairy said:
Frimley111R said:
J4CKO said:
You do realise car manufacturers have designers who have degrees in engineering, they do all sorts of testing, use different materials, better tolerances and design the engines to operate at that level. They dont just take a 2.0 pinto, hacksaw a cylinder off, whack a turbo on and crank up the boost.
The difference is with downsized engines is that the cooling circuit is much more critical. an old Pinto could lose its coolant and you could quite happily drive, get it off the road and wait for the AA, possibly even, if it was cold out, drive gently home and it would most likely survive, these new ones, producing much more power from a much smaller block, with the heat of a turbo, just dont have any margin to absorb and dissipate all that heat generated if the cooling fails and it all gets a bit like a Curly Wurly left on a dashboard in Spain, in August.
So, the disasters are, if your cooling lets go, the Degas pipe on the 1 litre Ecoboosts was substandard, been improved but I have heard of people having engine failures like that, and my brother just caught his wifes B max in time.
So, if you have an engine like that, keep as close an eye on the coolant side of things as the oil.
i bet manufacturers wish you could make a 3 cylinder like that The difference is with downsized engines is that the cooling circuit is much more critical. an old Pinto could lose its coolant and you could quite happily drive, get it off the road and wait for the AA, possibly even, if it was cold out, drive gently home and it would most likely survive, these new ones, producing much more power from a much smaller block, with the heat of a turbo, just dont have any margin to absorb and dissipate all that heat generated if the cooling fails and it all gets a bit like a Curly Wurly left on a dashboard in Spain, in August.
So, the disasters are, if your cooling lets go, the Degas pipe on the 1 litre Ecoboosts was substandard, been improved but I have heard of people having engine failures like that, and my brother just caught his wifes B max in time.
So, if you have an engine like that, keep as close an eye on the coolant side of things as the oil.
Interesting post though.
had a cupra with the 180hp version, driving wise one of the best hot hatch engine ive ever driven. Oil consumption etc was hilarious though, glad it was a leased car so i could just hand it back Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff