RE: Singer Vehicle Design | PH Meets
Discussion
As others have mooted, this seems a bit ott, a case of throwing everything at it because we can.
Mighty impressive by numbers - 560bhp and 1000kgs - but lacking purity and a little heavy handed.
Looking at the interior this must be a pre-production prototype but the juxtaposition between the 'off the shelf' steering wheel and fussy gold rev counter is jarring.
Mighty impressive by numbers - 560bhp and 1000kgs - but lacking purity and a little heavy handed.
Looking at the interior this must be a pre-production prototype but the juxtaposition between the 'off the shelf' steering wheel and fussy gold rev counter is jarring.
nunpuncher said:
I would have said there's no chance of them ever doing a 996 or any other water cooled 911 but I would have said the same of Magnus Walker several years ago.
Watching that episode of Jay Leno's garage, and how easily Magnus Walker was converted to the appeal of a modern car shows to me just how crap old cars are (I'm not saying they aren't cool, but they are objectively crap).You could spend £1.8m on this, but a 997 is probably a much better car. A 992 would destroy it in every respect. Except, of course, the door seals.
I dont understand the passion for these. It is a 964 restored mod, yes very expensively done, but it isn't a RUF and it isn't a factory GT2 RS. I am sure the few will love these but I just dont get the whole project. EV's will be way faster, V12s will sound so much better and there are some beautiful cars made today that handle way beyond the ability of any road. A rich persons toy!!
Thornaby said:
Mattjevans said:
No..... am I the only person who doesn't believe it.
I'm not having that about the door seals either.Still a lovely car though.
Geoffcapes said:
Mattjevans said:
Having started as a massive sceptical, I have enormous respect for what the Singer guys are doing.
But I don’t buy the “won’t turn a profit” line for a second. There’s an awful lot of marketing speak to justify cost.
Willing to bet they do a 996 next.
The 996 is generally regarded as the ugly duckling. I'd bet they skip that and go straight to the 997.But I don’t buy the “won’t turn a profit” line for a second. There’s an awful lot of marketing speak to justify cost.
Willing to bet they do a 996 next.
SydneyBridge said:
I had a close nose around Andy's at Goodwood and the attention to detail is absolutely stunning- its like a fine piece of art
Yep, once saw a Singer in the flesh and it’s absolutely mesmerising to look at, an astonishing effort that you could happily just stand there looking at for hours and hours. Well done Singer, phone number in the book for when I sell my business or the lottery numbers come up!
The engine alone is a very special thing. Air cooled, naturally aspirated and over 500hp.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLlEgTyGpg0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLlEgTyGpg0
Geoffcapes said:
The 996 is generally regarded as the ugly duckling. I'd bet they skip that and go straight to the 997.
Possibly right. Maybe more of a market, but also more people aware of what is possible to achieve with a 997 for a lot less than £1.5mTake a 997 Carrera 2 (say 35k)
Hartech ++ engine rebuild w LSD and all the various engine protection bits deep sump etc etc (say 20k)
Carbon bonnet, carbon roof, carbon ducktail, custom respray (say 25k)
Full new interior including RS seats (say 25k and that's pushing it)
Kline Inconel exhaust (10k)
Complete motorsport/Eibach type suspension with top of the line Ohlins (say 15k).
Not sure where the other £1.3m goes, apart from door seals
I like what Singer is doing to the vintage Porsches, but i would never choose one over the original on which they are based ( price taken into consideration) A large part of driving a vintage car is that you get an impression on how the car drove at that time with all the limitations and compromises of the old car. If you don’t want that you might as well buy a 992 and save yourself 1.5m dollars in the process.
Cripes said:
For $1.8m the interior looks really disappointing. Maybe i'm missing something? Wonky "lights" sticker, too much Max Power style, clear coat carbon and what's with the 60's alarm clock masquerading as a rev counter?
It’ll be their development car, doesn’t need a fancy leather interior. Even the ‘basic’ $400k Singer gets a stunning interior, all bespoke and to the customer’s spec in terms of seats, material and colours. Definitely no tape marking an electronics shop special “lights” switch. Sandpit Steve said:
Cripes said:
For $1.8m the interior looks really disappointing. Maybe i'm missing something? Wonky "lights" sticker, too much Max Power style, clear coat carbon and what's with the 60's alarm clock masquerading as a rev counter?
It’ll be their development car, doesn’t need a fancy leather interior. Even the ‘basic’ $400k Singer gets a stunning interior, all bespoke and to the customer’s spec in terms of seats, material and colours. Definitely no tape marking an electronics shop special “lights” switch. The “stripes” on the car’s flanks are actually the names of the various race circuits and roads/places the car was developed on ...
It is a truly wonderful development of what was once one of Stuttgart’s most reviled, unloved cars.
What do you get for your 1.8M ? Well for starters an engine that most likely costs £100k just to build (that’s without the tooling and development costs) I imagine Williams Engineering services don’t come cheap...
Carbon fibre panels the quality of which you probably won’t find this side of an F1, DTM or WRC car. Again, the tooling costs will have been eyewateringly expensive. IIRC only the roof or doors remain in steel.
Pretty much every component will be bespoke, that means prototype costs (no doubt lots of parts are subsequently redesigned and require further prototypes) and only when the final spec is agreed can tooling be manufactured.
Once you have the tooling, you knock on the door of a decent foundry and ask them to cast some cylinder heads. The first thing they’ll ask is what sort of volumes you’ll be wanting ... when you tell them 5 sets to start off with, they’ll either show you the door, or proceed to perform open wallet surgery on your finances.
Now do the same for the cam carriers, probably the crankcases, cam covers, camshafts, cylinder head scavenge pumps etc etc etc, and before you know it, the tooling costs are many hundreds of thousands of $.
Sure, you could build a very nice 964 for £100k, but with 560 N/A gee gees ? No chance.
Try building a sub-1000kg 964 and making it everyday drivable with a fully trimmed (and luxurious) cabin. Good luck with that BTW.
The car is an object lesson in what can be done with an aircooled 911, Singer should be applauded for pushing the envelope, just as others have done in other fields, because without such individuals, Concorde, landing a man on the moon or climbing the highest mountains wouldn’t have ever happened.
It's very, very nice. But it is not the ultimate, and it is not even that well finished.
This is much more like it IMO
https://www.pistonheads.com/features/ph-features/p...
This is much more like it IMO
https://www.pistonheads.com/features/ph-features/p...
Paracetamol said:
Absolutely top blokes and company. If they said the seals cost 500k to engineer..then they did.
Not a chance they spent 500k on door seals. Lots of artistic license and hyperbole. Don't disagree on the end product and them being great guys. No question.
If it was my money, I'd find it difficult to look past one of these:
I've seen it in the flesh and it is unbelievable.
https://www.guntherwerks.com/gallery
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