RE: Lotus unveils 2000hp, £2m Evija
Discussion
otolith said:
Oh, it can, it just takes a plan and money.
Whether the outcome will still be recognisably Lotus is another matter.
I’d rather see a new Esprit than a marketing wet dream like this. Let’s see if the money keeps flowing, it’s just a classic from a British manufacturer, I sincerely hope it works out for them but I have my doubts, and history backs this up. Whether the outcome will still be recognisably Lotus is another matter.
yonex said:
otolith said:
Oh, it can, it just takes a plan and money.
Whether the outcome will still be recognisably Lotus is another matter.
I’d rather see a new Esprit than a marketing wet dream like this. Let’s see if the money keeps flowing, it’s just a classic from a British manufacturer, I sincerely hope it works out for them but I have my doubts, and history backs this up. Whether the outcome will still be recognisably Lotus is another matter.
yonex said:
otolith said:
Oh, it can, it just takes a plan and money.
Whether the outcome will still be recognisably Lotus is another matter.
I’d rather see a new Esprit than a marketing wet dream like this. Let’s see if the money keeps flowing, it’s just a classic from a British manufacturer, I sincerely hope it works out for them but I have my doubts, and history backs this up. Whether the outcome will still be recognisably Lotus is another matter.
There have been a number of brands repositioned and resurrected when backed with serious money. They have not, generally, retained much more than the name. The last few years of Lotus, though, have seen them get their feet on the ground, control their costs and improve their product and marketing. I think if Geely play their cards right it will be successful. It might mean that they no longer make the kinds of cars I like at prices I am willing or able to pay, but that’s ok. They’ll leave a vacuum for someone else to have a crack at.
yonex said:
and history backs this up.
which history is that?A german sports car manufacturer nearly went bust about 40yrs ago and decided to replace its iconic sports car with something completely different. luckily, they also produced a popular lower cost sports car that saved them. They now make lots of cash as a premium SUV maker.
A Nordic car manufacturer nearly went bust but was saved by a cash-rich company from the new (or very old) world that has a plan to invest and become a major player in global car production.
a British car producing conglomerate had lots of major brands, innovative cars, loyal customers and world class engineers. hard to believe, but management blew it and it all got sold for a £1.
British workforce thought to be militant and incapable of producing cars.
Foreign car companies invest in new plant in UK and end up producing high quality products that are better and more reliable than those built in the 'home' country.
sitting outside your 'history' comment tickled me into lubricated keyboard activity, sorry.
history is a long time.
tl,dr - otolith is right
CABC said:
which history is that?
A german sports car manufacturer nearly went bust about 40yrs ago and decided to replace its iconic sports car with something completely different. luckily, they also produced a popular lower cost sports car that saved them. They now make lots of cash as a premium SUV maker.
A Nordic car manufacturer nearly went bust but was saved by a cash-rich company from the new (or very old) world that has a plan to invest and become a major player in global car production.
a British car producing conglomerate had lots of major brands, innovative cars, loyal customers and world class engineers. hard to believe, but management blew it and it all got sold for a £1.
British workforce thought to be militant and incapable of producing cars.
Foreign car companies invest in new plant in UK and end up producing high quality products that are better and more reliable than those built in the 'home' country.
sitting outside your 'history' comment tickled me into lubricated keyboard activity, sorry.
history is a long time.
tl,dr - otolith is right
I’m talking about the many false dawns, as you well know. I’m not sure if they’re going to have an easier time with EV, it’s certainly nowhere near as difficult to make ludicrous performance. Whether it works, or likely ever gets used, it’s £2M, and will be purchased by very rich people who already have a fleet of cars from their competitors. A german sports car manufacturer nearly went bust about 40yrs ago and decided to replace its iconic sports car with something completely different. luckily, they also produced a popular lower cost sports car that saved them. They now make lots of cash as a premium SUV maker.
A Nordic car manufacturer nearly went bust but was saved by a cash-rich company from the new (or very old) world that has a plan to invest and become a major player in global car production.
a British car producing conglomerate had lots of major brands, innovative cars, loyal customers and world class engineers. hard to believe, but management blew it and it all got sold for a £1.
British workforce thought to be militant and incapable of producing cars.
Foreign car companies invest in new plant in UK and end up producing high quality products that are better and more reliable than those built in the 'home' country.
sitting outside your 'history' comment tickled me into lubricated keyboard activity, sorry.
history is a long time.
tl,dr - otolith is right
I guess it’s a departure from yet another SE Exige or Evie’s
. I’d genuinely like them to succeed, but it’s not an easy market, these days performance cars are as aspirational for the average person as genital warts. yonex said:
I’m talking about the many false dawns, as you well know. I’m not sure if they’re going to have an easier time with EV, it’s certainly nowhere near as difficult to make ludicrous performance. Whether it works, or likely ever gets used, it’s £2M, and will be purchased by very rich people who already have a fleet of cars from their competitors.
I guess it’s a departure from yet another SE Exige or Evie’s. I’d genuinely like them to succeed, but it’s not an easy market, these days performance cars are as aspirational for the average person as genital warts.
just a little friday evening debate. i know about the false dawns of recent Lotus history!I guess it’s a departure from yet another SE Exige or Evie’s
. I’d genuinely like them to succeed, but it’s not an easy market, these days performance cars are as aspirational for the average person as genital warts. but otolith is right, no need repeating his words.
small, light sports cars are difficult for any manufacturer and most have given up. there are no german sports cars anymore (of the simple & light variety), and even Mazda shared costs with Fiat.
Geely is repositioning Lotus into something people may not like (await new Elise with interest) but history is full of such feats easily achieved with money, a plan and time. or happenstance. Porsche is one, Volvo is underway, Burberry, Nokia (a paper company), Apple, WPP. Aston and JLR are remarkable too.
unsprung said:
lol, clever
it would be interesting to find, some weeks later, that your handiwork had gone viral such that enthusiasts were now confused as to the origin of this car
make another version with Dyson on it !!!
it would be interesting to find, some weeks later, that your handiwork had gone viral such that enthusiasts were now confused as to the origin of this car
make another version with Dyson on it !!!
would need to find a silver Dyson, I’m not good enough to do a logo from another background. yonex said:
I’d rather see a new Esprit than a marketing wet dream like this...
I think that's the point. If a car like this makes it into production and is as mental as claimed then paying 911 Turbo money for a 'new' Esprit doesn't seem all that crazy. Such is the power of branding or the appeal of a marque. For 20 years they've built nothing but hopelessly impractical Elise variants for car nerds, which might be great but we have to admit we are in a vanishingly tiny minority of people who care. If Lotus are to start selling 'Esprits' again the brand has to appeal to 911 not Boxster owners.yonex said:
I’d rather see a new Esprit than a marketing wet dream like this. Let’s see if the money keeps flowing, it’s just a classic from a British manufacturer, I sincerely hope it works out for them but I have my doubts, and history backs this up.
You will never see a new Esprit or anything like it until something like this car changes the mental perception of the value of the brand. Since the 90s the repeated owners and managers of the Lotus brand have gone against all global economic and social trends and touted ‘cheapness’ until we are now at the point that everyone knows Lotus is cheap. It’s non aspirational. It’s about being a small manufacturer who competes against the bottom of the market. But economics alone very obviously tell us that a low volume manufacturer cannot compete on price against a volume player. And that as costs, regulation and consumer expectations have risen this has become less and less possible.
All the specialist car companies have had their economic crunch calls over the last 20 years as the business, consumer and legal landscape has changed so rapidly. Porsche and Aston got the timing of their ‘baby’ products right by delivering them at the peak earning power of the Boomer generation. Lotus got it right also with the Elise and rather than tapping the Boomer market they successfully tapped the newly economically free youth market, freed by the incomes from the tech boom and the massive deregulation of consumer lending. The big difference is that both Aston and Porsche built on this ‘baby’ car success and the volumes it gave them to deliver more high end cars to both new markets and to its burgeoning client base. They also understood the absolute importance of fitting their cars with all the basic requirements of an old people’s home because pretty much anyone in the West with the money for their product is old. Lotus on the other hand didn’t buildnon their success but squandered it and at the time when others were building their halo products up to take advantage of the stellar growth in global affluence and brand powers Lotus actually pulled away and became isolated from the real consumer world and obsessed with promoting the image of cheapness to a world that was making it very clear that every single day cheapness was becoming more and more revolting and toxic.
We now find ourselves with the massive problem that consumers demand goods that are purely financially aspirational and the Lotus brand has become Kryptonite to a world of SuperSpenders.
But even Porsche struggled with the price point issue that as more premium brands such as Ferrari easily crossed the £100k threshold, the Porsche brand was struggling. About ten years ago the Board came close to dropping the diesel van as it was this cheap and ubiquitous product that was parked on every normal
street and dragging down brand values and stopping them being able to raise the price of 911s at the rate that they wanted to. Instead, what they did was opt for the rare, limited edition and ‘you can’t have one because you are not important enough as a human’ route of special editions and this has worked in hoofing their base 911 prices up at the rate they needed.
Now Lotus pretty much only sells one time only, limited editions. There is probably one being launched today to get a few cars sold like the special edition yesterday managed. That path is used by Lotus to just shift goods, it won’t work to break pricing barriers etc.
Lotus need to deliver a massive adrenaline shot to its brand perception before they can either push up the prices of revamped existing products or launch new ones at the required pricing. That is exactly what this £2m car is about. What the car is or has is of no relevance whatsoever. It’s only got electric motors because that’s what is on trend, where the grants are and it allows for the most headline number wins but the only truly important number is that price tag. The purpose of this car is to distribute a great image around the world with a massive price tag underneath it next to the word Lotus.
This car is hugely, hugely important as it is the first significant step in making the vital brand perception change that has been killing this company and brand for decades.
It’s the first big step in changing the perception of onlookers and potential consumers as a Lotus passes by and their first thought is that the driver couldn’t afford a Ferrari, Lamborghini, 911, Aston to seeing Lotus as being in the same aspirational and value camp as those brands and that the owner chose to buy a Lotus rather than having no choice because they are poor and inferior humans.
As an aside, what Lotus do need to add to this car is an important urban safety feature to warn pedestrians that an EV is coming and that is to add a switch that pumps out the sound of the electric motor through massive speakers. It’s going to be important that the owners can ‘warn’ the pedestrian throng around Knightsbridge of their presence and therefore superiority as humans.
This car’s sole purpose is to start the rebranding of the beard from the beard of the ale drinker to the beard of the hipster. And Britain isn’t where it’s at for this. The other key aspect of Lotus is that it is in an export or die position. Everything Lotus now does will be focussed on markets where their potential clients are and where their brand has the strongest power. That’s not going to be here because of the legion of whinging beards and kids who want everything on benefits.
DonkeyApple said:
You will never see a new Esprit or anything like it until something like this car changes the mental perception of the value of the brand. Since the 90s the repeated owners and managers of the Lotus brand have gone against all global economic and social trends and touted ‘cheapness’ until we are now at the point that everyone knows Lotus is cheap. It’s non aspirational. It’s about being a small manufacturer who competes against the bottom of the market.
But economics alone very obviously tell us that a low volume manufacturer cannot compete on price against a volume player. And that as costs, regulation and consumer expectations have risen this has become less and less possible.
All the specialist car companies have had their economic crunch calls over the last 20 years as the business, consumer and legal landscape has changed so rapidly. Porsche and Aston got the timing of their ‘baby’ products right by delivering them at the peak earning power of the Boomer generation. Lotus got it right also with the Elise and rather than tapping the Boomer market they successfully tapped the newly economically free youth market, freed by the incomes from the tech boom and the massive deregulation of consumer lending. The big difference is that both Aston and Porsche built on this ‘baby’ car success and the volumes it gave them to deliver more high end cars to both new markets and to its burgeoning client base. They also understood the absolute importance of fitting their cars with all the basic requirements of an old people’s home because pretty much anyone in the West with the money for their product is old. Lotus on the other hand didn’t buildnon their success but squandered it and at the time when others were building their halo products up to take advantage of the stellar growth in global affluence and brand powers Lotus actually pulled away and became isolated from the real consumer world and obsessed with promoting the image of cheapness to a world that was making it very clear that every single day cheapness was becoming more and more revolting and toxic.
We now find ourselves with the massive problem that consumers demand goods that are purely financially aspirational and the Lotus brand has become Kryptonite to a world of SuperSpenders.
But even Porsche struggled with the price point issue that as more premium brands such as Ferrari easily crossed the £100k threshold, the Porsche brand was struggling. About ten years ago the Board came close to dropping the diesel van as it was this cheap and ubiquitous product that was parked on every normal
street and dragging down brand values and stopping them being able to raise the price of 911s at the rate that they wanted to. Instead, what they did was opt for the rare, limited edition and ‘you can’t have one because you are not important enough as a human’ route of special editions and this has worked in hoofing their base 911 prices up at the rate they needed.
Now Lotus pretty much only sells one time only, limited editions. There is probably one being launched today to get a few cars sold like the special edition yesterday managed. That path is used by Lotus to just shift goods, it won’t work to break pricing barriers etc.
Lotus need to deliver a massive adrenaline shot to its brand perception before they can either push up the prices of revamped existing products or launch new ones at the required pricing. That is exactly what this £2m car is about. What the car is or has is of no relevance whatsoever. It’s only got electric motors because that’s what is on trend, where the grants are and it allows for the most headline number wins but the only truly important number is that price tag. The purpose of this car is to distribute a great image around the world with a massive price tag underneath it next to the word Lotus.
This car is hugely, hugely important as it is the first significant step in making the vital brand perception change that has been killing this company and brand for decades.
It’s the first big step in changing the perception of onlookers and potential consumers as a Lotus passes by and their first thought is that the driver couldn’t afford a Ferrari, Lamborghini, 911, Aston to seeing Lotus as being in the same aspirational and value camp as those brands and that the owner chose to buy a Lotus rather than having no choice because they are poor and inferior humans.
As an aside, what Lotus do need to add to this car is an important urban safety feature to warn pedestrians that an EV is coming and that is to add a switch that pumps out the sound of the electric motor through massive speakers. It’s going to be important that the owners can ‘warn’ the pedestrian throng around Knightsbridge of their presence and therefore superiority as humans.
This car’s sole purpose is to start the rebranding of the beard from the beard of the ale drinker to the beard of the hipster. And Britain isn’t where it’s at for this. The other key aspect of Lotus is that it is in an export or die position. Everything Lotus now does will be focussed on markets where their potential clients are and where their brand has the strongest power. That’s not going to be here because of the legion of whinging beards and kids who want everything on benefits.
Well put. Much more eloquent than my attempt.But economics alone very obviously tell us that a low volume manufacturer cannot compete on price against a volume player. And that as costs, regulation and consumer expectations have risen this has become less and less possible.
All the specialist car companies have had their economic crunch calls over the last 20 years as the business, consumer and legal landscape has changed so rapidly. Porsche and Aston got the timing of their ‘baby’ products right by delivering them at the peak earning power of the Boomer generation. Lotus got it right also with the Elise and rather than tapping the Boomer market they successfully tapped the newly economically free youth market, freed by the incomes from the tech boom and the massive deregulation of consumer lending. The big difference is that both Aston and Porsche built on this ‘baby’ car success and the volumes it gave them to deliver more high end cars to both new markets and to its burgeoning client base. They also understood the absolute importance of fitting their cars with all the basic requirements of an old people’s home because pretty much anyone in the West with the money for their product is old. Lotus on the other hand didn’t buildnon their success but squandered it and at the time when others were building their halo products up to take advantage of the stellar growth in global affluence and brand powers Lotus actually pulled away and became isolated from the real consumer world and obsessed with promoting the image of cheapness to a world that was making it very clear that every single day cheapness was becoming more and more revolting and toxic.
We now find ourselves with the massive problem that consumers demand goods that are purely financially aspirational and the Lotus brand has become Kryptonite to a world of SuperSpenders.
But even Porsche struggled with the price point issue that as more premium brands such as Ferrari easily crossed the £100k threshold, the Porsche brand was struggling. About ten years ago the Board came close to dropping the diesel van as it was this cheap and ubiquitous product that was parked on every normal
street and dragging down brand values and stopping them being able to raise the price of 911s at the rate that they wanted to. Instead, what they did was opt for the rare, limited edition and ‘you can’t have one because you are not important enough as a human’ route of special editions and this has worked in hoofing their base 911 prices up at the rate they needed.
Now Lotus pretty much only sells one time only, limited editions. There is probably one being launched today to get a few cars sold like the special edition yesterday managed. That path is used by Lotus to just shift goods, it won’t work to break pricing barriers etc.
Lotus need to deliver a massive adrenaline shot to its brand perception before they can either push up the prices of revamped existing products or launch new ones at the required pricing. That is exactly what this £2m car is about. What the car is or has is of no relevance whatsoever. It’s only got electric motors because that’s what is on trend, where the grants are and it allows for the most headline number wins but the only truly important number is that price tag. The purpose of this car is to distribute a great image around the world with a massive price tag underneath it next to the word Lotus.
This car is hugely, hugely important as it is the first significant step in making the vital brand perception change that has been killing this company and brand for decades.
It’s the first big step in changing the perception of onlookers and potential consumers as a Lotus passes by and their first thought is that the driver couldn’t afford a Ferrari, Lamborghini, 911, Aston to seeing Lotus as being in the same aspirational and value camp as those brands and that the owner chose to buy a Lotus rather than having no choice because they are poor and inferior humans.
As an aside, what Lotus do need to add to this car is an important urban safety feature to warn pedestrians that an EV is coming and that is to add a switch that pumps out the sound of the electric motor through massive speakers. It’s going to be important that the owners can ‘warn’ the pedestrian throng around Knightsbridge of their presence and therefore superiority as humans.
This car’s sole purpose is to start the rebranding of the beard from the beard of the ale drinker to the beard of the hipster. And Britain isn’t where it’s at for this. The other key aspect of Lotus is that it is in an export or die position. Everything Lotus now does will be focussed on markets where their potential clients are and where their brand has the strongest power. That’s not going to be here because of the legion of whinging beards and kids who want everything on benefits.
In business perception is reality, the perception is that Lotus build ‘toy’ cars. A £2M EV is only going to reinforce that IMO. Unfortunately they have milked various cash cows to death, failed to make the cars that a wider audience wants. A revolving door for MD’s and many failed new dawns. GM ownership always seemed like I high point for me, and it’s what they’re going to need in the future, if they want to remain a car manufacturer.
rockin said:
Believe some of this stuff and you'll believe Apple began their mega success by selling a gold plated, diamond studded iPhone to Jay-Z and then everyone else just wanted to jump on the bandwagon with a cheap iPod.
Although Lotus did appoint Swizz Beatz as one of their directors,
"Swizz Beatz is having a hot year, starting with his first Grammy win with Jay-Z earlier this year for the single "On to the Next One". He made headlines again when he was announced the new Vice President of Creative Design & Global Marketing for Lotus Cars Group. Only selling in the States since 2005, Lotus Cars Group is looking to make some power moves over here. They thought Swizz Beatz, a known connoisseur of Lotus sports cars, among other luxury sport car brands, would be a great fit for their team."
Although Lotus did appoint Swizz Beatz as one of their directors,
"Swizz Beatz is having a hot year, starting with his first Grammy win with Jay-Z earlier this year for the single "On to the Next One". He made headlines again when he was announced the new Vice President of Creative Design & Global Marketing for Lotus Cars Group. Only selling in the States since 2005, Lotus Cars Group is looking to make some power moves over here. They thought Swizz Beatz, a known connoisseur of Lotus sports cars, among other luxury sport car brands, would be a great fit for their team."
yonex said:
In business perception is reality, the perception is that Lotus build ‘toy’ cars. A £2M EV is only going to reinforce that IMO. Unfortunately they have milked various cash cows to death, failed to make the cars that a wider audience wants. A revolving door for MD’s and many failed new dawns. GM ownership always seemed like I high point for me, and it’s what they’re going to need in the future, if they want to remain a car manufacturer.
I agree with that apart from this car which isn’t a car but is the first step in repositioning the brand in the eyes of global consumers. It’s an attempt, a first step to get into the same room as the big brands and out of the tKMax arena. What’s smart about it is that if they can sell them then it will be a zero cost marketing and brand positioning exercise that will have cleared the way for the new mainstream products. DonkeyApple said:
yonex said:
In business perception is reality, the perception is that Lotus build ‘toy’ cars. A £2M EV is only going to reinforce that IMO. Unfortunately they have milked various cash cows to death, failed to make the cars that a wider audience wants. A revolving door for MD’s and many failed new dawns. GM ownership always seemed like I high point for me, and it’s what they’re going to need in the future, if they want to remain a car manufacturer.
I agree with that apart from this car which isn’t a car but is the first step in repositioning the brand in the eyes of global consumers. It’s an attempt, a first step to get into the same room as the big brands and out of the tKMax arena. What’s smart about it is that if they can sell them then it will be a zero cost marketing and brand positioning exercise that will have cleared the way for the new mainstream products. The spec needs to reflective the price.
“Light is right” Is good but “flimsy and rattly” is not. Difficult to find the right balance.
Putting a mediocre saloon car engine with a SC is maybe not the best way to build an image of a thoroughbred sports car producer. Lotus didn’t have much choice though.
I’m probably in the minority in appreciating the Lotus handling characteristics enough to buy one. Less then 300 sold in UK last year. But having said that I have replaced most of the running gear to bring it up to spec.
The electric Hypercar is too far removed from reality to be of any relevance imho.
yonex said:
In business perception is reality, the perception is that Lotus build ‘toy’ cars. A £2M EV is only going to reinforce that IMO. Unfortunately they have milked various cash cows to death, failed to make the cars that a wider audience wants. A revolving door for MD’s and many failed new dawns. GM ownership always seemed like I high point for me, and it’s what they’re going to need in the future, if they want to remain a car manufacturer.
Really? The Elan M100 was a failure that just cemented Lotus' slide into obscurity at the time, produced under GM ownership.Coincidentally, it was GM (as Vauxhall) that nearly bankrupted the company over the VX220 deal - which in turn led to the cancellation of the M250.
The common theme with their bumpy ride is simply that they've been run on a shoestring budget for decades - one that has barely covered producing the occasional new model, never mind serious investments in marketing, network, brand positioning, production facilities and all the other expensive elements needed to move away from being a niche brand.
Ultimately, even Bahar's ridiculous plan essentially failed because the parent company refused to bankroll it.
And of course the counter example - the Elise - was not produced as a grand plan to (as you put it) "build a world beating empire" - it was hoped to sell a few hundred units to keep the lights on in a company that had almost run itself into the ground.
If you think this car - which will be spoken of in the same terms as other exotica - is a 'toy car', you're living in the past. It's a great statement of intent, bur more importantly, it is the first visible sign of the level of investment Geely are putting into the company. It appears to be orders of magnitude more than GM ever spent, and (as with Volvo) to be applied with a 'light touch' that is letting the company do what it feels best.
yonex said:
And the difference between GM and the latest sugar daddy is what exactly?
GM ran them into the ground and apparently forced a bland and undistinguished product direction on them.Geely appear to have already committed tens, if not hundreds of millions into improvements in their infrastructure and facilities, and have encouraged them to produce a model that is sufficiently interesting that it's been featured in the main stream non-motoring press.
Of course we don't know how it will pan out, but these are the most positive signs I've seen come out of Hethel for a long, long time.
Tuna said:
GM ran them into the ground and apparently forced a bland and undistinguished product direction on them.
Geely appear to have already committed tens, if not hundreds of millions into improvements in their infrastructure and facilities, and have encouraged them to produce a model that is sufficiently interesting that it's been featured in the main stream non-motoring press.
Of course we don't know how it will pan out, but these are the most positive signs I've seen come out of Hethel for a long, long time.
I really hope it works out, they are a fantastic team of engineers, always have been. Geely appear to have already committed tens, if not hundreds of millions into improvements in their infrastructure and facilities, and have encouraged them to produce a model that is sufficiently interesting that it's been featured in the main stream non-motoring press.
Of course we don't know how it will pan out, but these are the most positive signs I've seen come out of Hethel for a long, long time.
Tuna said:
it was GM (as Vauxhall) that nearly bankrupted the company....
...although Lotus did design the new and highly regarded Corvette ZR-1 engine for GM. Regrettably actual production of that engine couldn't be handled by Lotus so it was built by Mercury Marine in Oklahoma, USA.And this week GM have launched a brand new mid-engine V8 Corvette at a price point which punts any ideas of a new V8 Esprit right out of the ball-park. Lotus left that gap in the market wide open.
Tuna said:
Bahar's ridiculous plan essentially failed because.....
.... it was a ridiculous plan, hopelessly over ambitious in every way. You may recall that Lotus' recently launched Evora wasn't even present at Bahar's infamous "five new models in five years" presentation. Pure brilliance.And then there was the "Faceless People" advertising/promotion campaign. And the retail shop on Regent St paying huge rent to sell T-shirts and key-rings but no cars.
Tuna said:
Geely letting the company do what it feels best.
Presumably that's why the first thing Geely did was fire the management, so the company could get on with what it felt was best. What about all the talk of a new Lotus SUV - it seems to have gone remarkably quiet.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff