Bad crash at my local boy racer meet

Bad crash at my local boy racer meet

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anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 22nd July 2019
quotequote all
blueg33 said:
How were the spectators who were hurt standing on the pavement victims of their own stupidity? As I mentioned above, most of the victims were on the pavement.
Well let’s see, there are fast cars being driven quickly and erratically on an open public road by people you’ve never met and you have no idea how well they can drive or how accustomed to the car they are.....so, do you stand on the pavement as close to the road as possible or do you think, hmmm that looks a bit dangerous I’ll go stand about 20ft away....

same reason why I get very concerned watching a rally and see people go stand on the outside of the fastest corners of a loose surface stage.... of a car hits them, all you hear is “rallies are dangerous” not “people are stupid”.

blueg33

35,590 posts

223 months

Monday 22nd July 2019
quotequote all
pablo said:
Well let’s see, there are fast cars being driven quickly and erratically on an open public road by people you’ve never met and you have no idea how well they can drive or how accustomed to the car they are.....so, do you stand on the pavement as close to the road as possible or do you think, hmmm that looks a bit dangerous I’ll go stand about 20ft away....

same reason why I get very concerned watching a rally and see people go stand on the outside of the fastest corners of a loose surface stage.... of a car hits them, all you hear is “rallies are dangerous” not “people are stupid”.
You still have a right to expect the pavement on a public road to be safe.

What about someone who wasn’t there for the cars just walking past?

You generally don’t get pavements at rally’s and you have to make a specific trip to get there. But here, completely unconnected people could have been hurt purely because of people being tts behind the wheel.

can't remember

1,077 posts

127 months

Monday 22nd July 2019
quotequote all
blueg33 said:
How were the spectators who were hurt standing on the pavement victims of their own stupidity? As I mentioned above, most of the victims were on the pavement.
It's to do with measuring risk. A bunch of dicks are driving like dicks. Is the pavement at a potential dick intersection a safe place to be? No, but it's exiting and you get a good view/content. So yes it's stupidity (On reflection this may be a harsh word to use. Gormless may be more appropriate,). Most sensible people wouldn't be stood there.

There may be a huge number of other factors at play in the minds of everyone involved but ultimately it comes down to being aware of what's going on around you and acting accordingly.

Durzel

12,232 posts

167 months

Monday 22nd July 2019
quotequote all
blueg33 said:
You still have a right to expect the pavement on a public road to be safe.

What about someone who wasn’t there for the cars just walking past?

You generally don’t get pavements at rally’s and you have to make a specific trip to get there. But here, completely unconnected people could have been hurt purely because of people being tts behind the wheel.
Generally you would expect a pavement to be safe, but generally you don't have a critical mass of idiots around you driving like nutters. If you put yourself in harms way by attending one of these events, with untrained cocksure drivers about, you have to share in some of the blame if something happens to you.

And yes - someone who just happened to be walking along would be totally blameless. Those that had gone there specifically to watch and encourage this sort of behaviour, not so much.

I think "stupidity" is the right word to use. No one forced those spectators to be there.

Edited by Durzel on Monday 22 July 07:03

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 22nd July 2019
quotequote all
pablo said:
Well let’s see, there are fast cars being driven quickly and erratically on an open public road by people you’ve never met and you have no idea how well they can drive or how accustomed to the car they are.....so, do you stand on the pavement as close to the road as possible or do you think, hmmm that looks a bit dangerous I’ll go stand about 20ft away....

same reason why I get very concerned watching a rally and see people go stand on the outside of the fastest corners of a loose surface stage.... of a car hits them, all you hear is “rallies are dangerous” not “people are stupid”.
Is that why they state on the tickets ‘Motorsport is dangerous’.

SOL111

627 posts

131 months

Monday 22nd July 2019
quotequote all
Everyone there was complicit by virtue of attendance.

Noone wants injuries but spectating while dheads are doing 70 in a 40 are knowingly putting themselves in danger (and giving those dheads motivation to play up for the crowd).

98elise

26,381 posts

160 months

Monday 22nd July 2019
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SOL111 said:
Everyone there was complicit by virtue of attendance.

Noone wants injuries but spectating while dheads are doing 70 in a 40 are knowingly putting themselves in danger (and giving those dheads motivation to play up for the crowd).
It's public roads an public footpaths. How do you know all the injured were "spectators"?

In precious incidents cars have been hit that have nothing to do with the event.

Durzel

12,232 posts

167 months

Monday 22nd July 2019
quotequote all
98elise said:
SOL111 said:
Everyone there was complicit by virtue of attendance.

Noone wants injuries but spectating while dheads are doing 70 in a 40 are knowingly putting themselves in danger (and giving those dheads motivation to play up for the crowd).
It's public roads an public footpaths. How do you know all the injured were "spectators"?

In precious incidents cars have been hit that have nothing to do with the event.
He didn't say anything about who was and wasn't injured. He pointed out that spectators are putting themselves at risk and, if they are among the injured, it's partly their fault.

SOL111

627 posts

131 months

Monday 22nd July 2019
quotequote all
98elise said:
SOL111 said:
Everyone there was complicit by virtue of attendance.

Noone wants injuries but spectating while dheads are doing 70 in a 40 are knowingly putting themselves in danger (and giving those dheads motivation to play up for the crowd).
It's public roads an public footpaths. How do you know all the injured were "spectators"?

In precious incidents cars have been hit that have nothing to do with the event.
Naturally I wasn't referring to dog walkers and other innocent parties but thought that was pretty obvious.

If a random dog walker was hit whilst out, that makes it worse.

loskie

5,145 posts

119 months

Monday 22nd July 2019
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Pablo you sum it up perfectly.
Am I the only one that suspects that the OP is a 14 to 15yr old car nut?
One of the millennials who view everything through their damned phone.
Just watch with your eyes FFS.

Repeating his dad parrot fashion how "overpaid" local councillors are.

Let's face it a username can mean anything, something, everything or nothing.

ukaskew

10,642 posts

220 months

Monday 22nd July 2019
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irocfan said:
I'm not sure that we are TBH
Not well catered for track days? WWII gave us a huge number of disused airfields and engineering talent, we've run with that and have an embarrassment of riches in terms of motorsport in the UK. The majority of the country has at least two circuits within 2 hours.



There is a trackday somewhere in the country pretty much every single day between March and October: https://www.trackdays.co.uk/calendar/. Plenty of affordable options too, for example the Action Days at Castle Combe start at £25 a session.



Edited by ukaskew on Monday 22 July 08:12

poo at Paul's

14,116 posts

174 months

Monday 22nd July 2019
quotequote all
If the cockends attending did not drive like muppets, it would never have happened, not just the crash, but I suspect half the "spectators" would not be there either.

Yes, they are all complicit, yes they are all morons who should have better things to do of a Thursday evening, but the attendance of the spectators alone could only really result in and incident of someone maybe bumping into someone else, unless there are the tosspots driving around like they are gods gift and no rules, or speed limits or laws apply to them. Once they are lobbed into the mix, an incident like this is inevitable.
And of course the irony is that any driver with an ounce of common sense or experience would be wise to keep his or her speed down to significantly less than the posted limit with an unpredictable gathering of such a large number of people in such an area, ie one where such a gathering is not "normal".
To the morons defending how these bellends drive through these crowds because it is some "charity meet" (cringe), is this how you would drive or think others should drive around or through a large number of people in say a town, football match or concert when they chuck them all out, or large funeral gathering in Ireland?
Their driving, their whole reason for being there are bombing about like bellends is the very definition of recklessness, it is entirely predictable that doing so is putting these people in danger. The simple answer and ONLY answer is not that the council needs to put on some organised activity for these fking bells, it is that it must simply STOP. Either by the drivers stopping going and or stopping driving like cocks, or the police arresting everyone there and impounding all their stmobiles.

SOL111

627 posts

131 months

Monday 22nd July 2019
quotequote all
Thing is, most of us get the car meet thing. It's not my scene and never was but I appreciate people love that stuff. However, there's a huge difference between meeting up and the Fast and Furious crap.

Reading about it, if enthusiasts want to distance themselves from the nuisance side of things, then they should turn their backs instead of fueling it. The fact that so many spectators were lining the street just goes to show that it's not merely a few bad apples but a whole load of dheads.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-h...

Dr Jekyll

23,820 posts

260 months

Monday 22nd July 2019
quotequote all
poo at Paul's said:
Either by the drivers stopping going and or stopping driving like cocks, or the police arresting everyone there and impounding all their stmobiles.
On what charge?

Kuji

785 posts

121 months

Monday 22nd July 2019
quotequote all
itcaptainslow said:
zarjaz1991 said:
Police....friendly chat....trust each other.....PIPE DREAM.

FIne upstanding citizens such as myself don't trust the police, there's no chance that these cruising types are going to.
You're probably in the minority being fair-I know of nobody "straight" who has a big issue with the police/law enforcement in this country.

Sure, the speed cameras everywhere etc are a tad annoying, but I still trust the police, and to be fair, when I used to go to Cruise Herts meets, the majority of people there seemed to as well.
I agree.

I have friends from all walks, and the ones that dislike the police have a reason for it.

DonkeyApple

54,934 posts

168 months

Monday 22nd July 2019
quotequote all
Boydie88 said:
Doesn't need to be covertly. Police could be using these events to have their own display at the static meet, showing off some tech or their cars etc. Not only would this act as a deterrent, it might also improve relations between the Police and those at the meet.
Policing should be more about preventing crime than reacting to it.
Or they could bring a car crusher along and show off what happens to the toys of people who weren’t able to behave properly in public at the previous meet?

Why do the police always have to be everyone’s best mate and spend loads of money setting up stalls and being all chatty? These meets are clearly important to a lot of people and I’m sure as with all groups in society the vast majority are just good people looking to have fun so why not actively seek out the rotten apples and crush their toys in public to serve as a little reminder to everyone as to where the line is?


1602Mark

16,205 posts

172 months

Monday 22nd July 2019
quotequote all
ukaskew said:
irocfan said:
I'm not sure that we are TBH
Not well catered for track days? WWII gave us a huge number of disused airfields and engineering talent, we've run with that and have an embarrassment of riches in terms of motorsport in the UK. The majority of the country has at least two circuits within 2 hours.



There is a trackday somewhere in the country pretty much every single day between March and October: https://www.trackdays.co.uk/calendar/. Plenty of affordable options too, for example the Action Days at Castle Combe start at £25 a session.



Edited by ukaskew on Monday 22 July 08:12
Plus there are evening events in the summer months.

I live down here in Cornwall and my local airfield is about 3/4 of a mile away on the road to Perranporth. Every couple of months the local 'drag and drift' event means people can attend, pay a tenner and drag or drift till their hearts content. I believe it was initially started by locals who wanted to enjoy their cars in relative safety. Generally, apart from the occasional overly loud exhaust, people driving to and from the event are pretty well behaved. Then again, our lanes aren't lined with cameras held by people trying to be the next YouTube sensation or Stig with McDonalds trays under their rear wheels in an attempt to drift their mums C1. The point is, organising an event is something that can be done by anyone. Policing the behaviour of people on route to or from the venue is a wholly different thing.

The whole 'the council should give us a place we can use' argument is one that I've heard for most of my life. I think the first time it related to skateboarding after a pedestrian got knocked over? The thing is, being given a venue doesn't mean people don't have to assume personal responsibility. No amount of free venue is going to stop people showing off, speeding and/or driving like a twunt at inappropriate times on public roads. You only have to check out the footage from the Ace Cafe, a free venue that even has people to martial poor behaviours. Nor is it down to the Police. It is simply personal responsibility and we are too quick to blame other people or organisations nowadays.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-Jz-J0k4os&t=...

finishing touch

808 posts

166 months

Monday 22nd July 2019
quotequote all
Having been one of the minor helpers on a closed road rally earlier this year two things struck me. (not literally I may add)

Firstly, considering how few entries there were how many staff and marshals that were needed, well into the hundreds, to make this a safe event.

Secondly, how well locals and spectators responded to the well meaning advice from our marshalling. Polite and friendly only begins to describe it.
One farmer, whose yard we had borrowed for a radio car, even offered the use of his teleporter should anyone need recovery. Those sort of things
were in hand, but still nice of the bloke to offer.

We do all this for free, although I did get the T shirt.

DonkeyApple

54,934 posts

168 months

Monday 22nd July 2019
quotequote all
ukaskew said:
Not well catered for track days? WWII gave us a huge number of disused airfields and engineering talent, we've run with that and have an embarrassment of riches in terms of motorsport in the UK. The majority of the country has at least two circuits within 2 hours.



There is a trackday somewhere in the country pretty much every single day between March and October: https://www.trackdays.co.uk/calendar/. Plenty of affordable options too, for example the Action Days at Castle Combe start at £25 a session.



Edited by ukaskew on Monday 22 July 08:12
Exactly. Someone also mentioned that these people couldn’t afford such events nor attend during the week because of work.

Obviously, as workers they can take a days holiday, this is the UK not the USSR. And very obviously, if they have the wealth to Fast and Furious their car then they have the wealth to attend a track day or formal event.

The reality is that it has nothing to do with this. It’s the style of the meet that is important. You can’t be Vin Diesel if you have to prebook a ticket, take a day off work and go to a formal event. For the event to work it has to be in that illicit urban environment etc.

The modern industrial car park meet is more the equivalent of the 90s rave scene. I think by looking at it from the viewpoint of a car event we can miss the truth and fail to fully understand. However, by looking at them instead as just one of this generations excuses for semi illicit social gatherings it probably gives a fairer understanding as to how to handle them.

A question to ask is whether we want to over police and formalise the events as it will simply drive them underground. The art is in attempting to apply enough law to prevent 99% of the most stupid activity while not tipping too far.

What appears to be a key danger point not just at these meets but at so many car meets is the exit of the venue. We’ve seen a car drive over the top of a Morgan at one meet, a Mustang spin out of an exit into the trees and now this.

What is missing is some very simple and obvious common sense. During a car meet the exit is the most dangerous place. Sight lines are blocked, peers are egging on the simple minded and excessive speed is being mixed in.

So what is the solution? It seems rather obvious in that you want to add more control to the exit point. Just stick up a set of temporary traffic lights because during the meet the junction becomes too dangerous not to be formalised in such a way. And place a mobile speed van in a suitable place to act as a visual enforcer.

Just insisting that all such events have traffic controlled exits would make a big difference.




Hungrymc

6,643 posts

136 months

Monday 22nd July 2019
quotequote all
DonkeyApple said:
Just insisting that all such events have traffic controlled exits would make a big difference.
That's exactly why I wouldn't want to be the organizer of this event. Its obvious that some marshalling was needed and to continue to arrange it without addressing that (or stopping future meets) must be somewhat dodgy when things go so very wrong.

And if you did control the standard of driving, I guess many attendees would lose interest and stop going as it loses the "underground" bit.

It really isn't just people who like to drive and so the track days won't cut it. Its the combination of being questionable legally and showing off in front of a crowd that the people who go enjoy. I think ?