RE: Mid-engined Corvette Stingray revealed!
Discussion
It’s not just tooling. If the initial design isn’t started with the intention to make both LHD/RHD then sometimes the packaging is just impossible to do right. The cost is also more prohibitive.
You are correct, all car journo’s forget that prices in the US don’t include local sales taxes. That would get in the way of a good story. People in the U.K. also forget that when comparing prices, US cars are subject to 10% import duty, VAT is due on everything including the import duty. It isn’t always car manufacturers that are at fault for inflated U.K. pricing...
You are correct, all car journo’s forget that prices in the US don’t include local sales taxes. That would get in the way of a good story. People in the U.K. also forget that when comparing prices, US cars are subject to 10% import duty, VAT is due on everything including the import duty. It isn’t always car manufacturers that are at fault for inflated U.K. pricing...
mitch_ said:
It’s not just tooling. If the initial design isn’t started with the intention to make both LHD/RHD then sometimes the packaging is just impossible to do right. The cost is also more prohibitive.
You are correct, all car journo’s forget that prices in the US don’t include local sales taxes. That would get in the way of a good story. People in the U.K. also forget that when comparing prices, US cars are subject to 10% import duty, VAT is due on everything including the import duty. It isn’t always car manufacturers that are at fault for inflated U.K. pricing...
Yes, there’s a lot of differences between prices quoted and actually paid in the US and U.K. markets. The US price in the RRP as it leaves the factory, a US customer will be expected to pay a bunch of local taxes, registration fees, delivery charge from the factory to the dealer - and the RRP is not binding on the dealer, so many of them can and do add a few grand to popular new models like this one. You are correct, all car journo’s forget that prices in the US don’t include local sales taxes. That would get in the way of a good story. People in the U.K. also forget that when comparing prices, US cars are subject to 10% import duty, VAT is due on everything including the import duty. It isn’t always car manufacturers that are at fault for inflated U.K. pricing...
The price generally quoted by dealers in the U.K. is pretty much the on-the-road price, including all taxes.
When bringing a US car to another market, there’s a bunch of market-specific costs that need to be amortised too, including but not limited to RHD differences, lights (amber indicators and rear fog lights required in Europe), crash testing inc tougher European pedestrian safety rules, speedometer readout in km/h, regional settings for stereo and satnav etc. These costs are spread over comparatively few cars when compared to the massive US market.
So, our $60k is currently £48k. Add delivery (£2k by boat, £10k by plane from US), import duty of 10% (£4.8k) and VAT at 20% (inc on the duty, £11k) and you’re looking at £66k to get it to Felixstowe. There’s probably £3-4K of market-specific costs, with the technical costs listed above plus local marketing, training and dealer margin. It can’t possibly come in less than about £74k on the road in the U.K.
Now the base-spec $60k car most likely won’t be coming to the U.K. anyway, we’ll need the one with the top-spec interior, leather, upgraded stereo etc. I think £80k is where they’ll be at.
On the other side of the equation, no Porsche leaves the dealer within £10k of the “list” price due to all the options and customisations available, it’s not difficult to get a Cayman S well past £70k - and if we leave the EU without an agreement there will be 10% import duty on them too.
TL:DR - comparing US and U.K. car prices is comparing apples and oranges.
Grindle said:
What? There is no market in places like Australia where they love their fast cars, New Zealand and the car mad Japanese have no money?
You are very wrong. The actual answer rather is that they've realised it makes sense rather late, which is why we DO have RHD Mustangs now.
I refer you to the Corvette owners club which i was in for years where they had international owners of the cars who would have loved to have the wheel on the correct side for their roads.
There is no contest between LHD and RHD. In global terms, the latter is almost, but not quite, a niche market. Or more accurately: a series of niche markets.You are very wrong. The actual answer rather is that they've realised it makes sense rather late, which is why we DO have RHD Mustangs now.
I refer you to the Corvette owners club which i was in for years where they had international owners of the cars who would have loved to have the wheel on the correct side for their roads.
Australians are a special case. They have high household incomes and today they purchase almost as many Mustangs per capita as Americans do (and they are the only country to do this). But they are a mere 26 million people.
All the other countries mentioned by the original commenter are either too small -- lol 460,000 people in Malta -- or of insufficient household income.
This idea on PH that RHD markets constitute a marketplace that is leading the world or equal to LHD is (pun intended) a chimera.
a Corvette SUV
a Corvette saloon
Rumours of this sort have appeared in the past. But now I believe it will happen. The launch event of the C8 (video here) was too profound in execution for the introduction of the C8 alone.
"GM insiders tell us a Corvette brand will eventually include a sedan and an SUV or crossover"
https://autoweek.com/article/car-news/corvette-bra...
a Corvette saloon
Rumours of this sort have appeared in the past. But now I believe it will happen. The launch event of the C8 (video here) was too profound in execution for the introduction of the C8 alone.
"GM insiders tell us a Corvette brand will eventually include a sedan and an SUV or crossover"
https://autoweek.com/article/car-news/corvette-bra...
unsprung said:
There is no contest between LHD and RHD. In global terms, the latter is almost, but not quite, a niche market. Or more accurately: a series of niche markets.
Ah yes. But as King Boris will tell us on Tuesday, continuing to drive on the left is one of the clearest indications that he has "taken back control".Two thirds of countries around the world drive on the left although they only contain about one third of the global population - making it a win for Johnny Frenchman.
rockin said:
Ah yes. But as King Boris will tell us on Tuesday, continuing to drive on the left is one of the clearest indications that he has "taken back control".
Two thirds of countries around the world drive on the left although they only contain about one third of the global population - making it a win for Johnny Frenchman.
Two thirds of countries around the world drive on the left although they only contain about one third of the global population - making it a win for Johnny Frenchman.
I may have read it here on PH, but I do recall that, under either Attlee or Churchill, the UK did undertake a study of switching from keep-left to keep-right (or whatever the appropriate terms are).
Back then, of course, it would have been relatively affordable. The Swedes, after all, managed it in the late 1960s. Today, of course, with sophisticated and costly infrastructure well in place, it is all but impossible.
That doesn't mean, however, that there aren't opportunities to make things easier, say, via a trade deal that reduces or eliminates tariffs and the like. I'm aware that this is a politically-charged topic (chickens, NHS, etc.). But, hey, never a two nations were more complimentary in their approaches to life and work and so on (at least, in my humble opinion).
I don't know a lot about the shenanigans of the current contest to occupy the house at No. 10. But whatever's happening, it's probably a lot less like "Alice in Wonderland" than what we've got over here at the moment. lol
unsprung said:
a Corvette SUV
a Corvette saloon
Rumours of this sort have appeared in the past. But now I believe it will happen. The launch event of the C8 (video here) was too profound in execution for the introduction of the C8 alone.
"GM insiders tell us a Corvette brand will eventually include a sedan and an SUV or crossover"
https://autoweek.com/article/car-news/corvette-bra...
Oh for fa Corvette saloon
Rumours of this sort have appeared in the past. But now I believe it will happen. The launch event of the C8 (video here) was too profound in execution for the introduction of the C8 alone.
"GM insiders tell us a Corvette brand will eventually include a sedan and an SUV or crossover"
https://autoweek.com/article/car-news/corvette-bra...
ks sake, I absolutely hate this st. 
Sandpit Steve said:
mitch_ said:
It’s not just tooling. If the initial design isn’t started with the intention to make both LHD/RHD then sometimes the packaging is just impossible to do right. The cost is also more prohibitive.
You are correct, all car journo’s forget that prices in the US don’t include local sales taxes. That would get in the way of a good story. People in the U.K. also forget that when comparing prices, US cars are subject to 10% import duty, VAT is due on everything including the import duty. It isn’t always car manufacturers that are at fault for inflated U.K. pricing...
Yes, there’s a lot of differences between prices quoted and actually paid in the US and U.K. markets. The US price in the RRP as it leaves the factory, a US customer will be expected to pay a bunch of local taxes, registration fees, delivery charge from the factory to the dealer - and the RRP is not binding on the dealer, so many of them can and do add a few grand to popular new models like this one. You are correct, all car journo’s forget that prices in the US don’t include local sales taxes. That would get in the way of a good story. People in the U.K. also forget that when comparing prices, US cars are subject to 10% import duty, VAT is due on everything including the import duty. It isn’t always car manufacturers that are at fault for inflated U.K. pricing...
The price generally quoted by dealers in the U.K. is pretty much the on-the-road price, including all taxes.
When bringing a US car to another market, there’s a bunch of market-specific costs that need to be amortised too, including but not limited to RHD differences, lights (amber indicators and rear fog lights required in Europe), crash testing inc tougher European pedestrian safety rules, speedometer readout in km/h, regional settings for stereo and satnav etc. These costs are spread over comparatively few cars when compared to the massive US market.
So, our $60k is currently £48k. Add delivery (£2k by boat, £10k by plane from US), import duty of 10% (£4.8k) and VAT at 20% (inc on the duty, £11k) and you’re looking at £66k to get it to Felixstowe. There’s probably £3-4K of market-specific costs, with the technical costs listed above plus local marketing, training and dealer margin. It can’t possibly come in less than about £74k on the road in the U.K.
Now the base-spec $60k car most likely won’t be coming to the U.K. anyway, we’ll need the one with the top-spec interior, leather, upgraded stereo etc. I think £80k is where they’ll be at.
On the other side of the equation, no Porsche leaves the dealer within £10k of the “list” price due to all the options and customisations available, it’s not difficult to get a Cayman S well past £70k - and if we leave the EU without an agreement there will be 10% import duty on them too.
TL:DR - comparing US and U.K. car prices is comparing apples and oranges.
From my past experience I will be interested to see how much difference RHD makes. I lost track of the number of times people told me they would buy a Cadillac if they made them RHD. So when they produced the CTS, STS, even the miserable BLS, imagine my ‘surprise’ when people still didn’t buy them.
A lot of people out there just don’t have the balls to buy something that isn’t German and slightly off the well beaten track so they make up excuses.
As the C8 will no doubt be delayed a year or more in the U.K. I wonder how many of the people on this thread who say they will definitely buy one will actually see it through.
Sandpit Steve said:
So, our $60k is currently £48k. Add delivery (£2k by boat, £10k by plane from US), import duty of 10% (£4.8k) and VAT at 20% (inc on the duty, £11k) and you’re looking at £66k to get it to Felixstowe. There’s probably £3-4K of market-specific costs, with the technical costs listed above plus local marketing, training and dealer margin. It can’t possibly come in less than about £74k on the road in the U.K.
Now the base-spec $60k car most likely won’t be coming to the U.K. anyway, we’ll need the one with the top-spec interior, leather, upgraded stereo etc. I think £80k is where they’ll be at.
On the other side of the equation, no Porsche leaves the dealer within £10k of the “list” price due to all the options and customisations available, it’s not difficult to get a Cayman S well past £70k - and if we leave the EU without an agreement there will be 10% import duty on them too.
TL:DR - comparing US and U.K. car prices is comparing apples and oranges.
Hang on, you are saying that the UK branch of Chevrolet will be paying full retail for these before they go anywhere near the boat? I really can't see that happening, I can't even see US dealers paying full retail for these, otherwise they wouldn't bother selling them.Now the base-spec $60k car most likely won’t be coming to the U.K. anyway, we’ll need the one with the top-spec interior, leather, upgraded stereo etc. I think £80k is where they’ll be at.
On the other side of the equation, no Porsche leaves the dealer within £10k of the “list” price due to all the options and customisations available, it’s not difficult to get a Cayman S well past £70k - and if we leave the EU without an agreement there will be 10% import duty on them too.
TL:DR - comparing US and U.K. car prices is comparing apples and oranges.
My big issue with the official UK imports of the previous Corvettes is that they very much seem to be priced to be about the same price as if I walked into a US dealer, added the same options, and imported it myself (as this is what your numbers are for). There should be no way that it should be about the same cost for me to do so paying retail all the way through the chain.
Chevrolet must be making money on these when they sell them to the US dealers, and the US dealers must also be making money on them, so should they not be basing the margin for UK sales on the rate to US dealers with a significant discount due to increased volume and it being an internal sale that will have UK margins then applied again?
the C8 interior
video here
https://www.instagram.com/p/B0FaM6hh4xH/
article here
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/chevrolet/corvette...
tankplanker said:
My big issue with the official UK imports of the previous Corvettes is that they very much seem to be priced to be about the same price as if I walked into a US dealer, added the same options, and imported it myself. There should be no way that it should be about the same cost for me to do so paying retail all the way through the chain.
I don't understand. What's the problem with that?Your US personal import,
- Will need some electrical work, Satnav conversion and IVA inspection
- Will not have a GM three year European warranty
rockin said:
tankplanker said:
My big issue with the official UK imports of the previous Corvettes is that they very much seem to be priced to be about the same price as if I walked into a US dealer, added the same options, and imported it myself. There should be no way that it should be about the same cost for me to do so paying retail all the way through the chain.
I don't understand. What's the problem with that?Your US personal import,
- Will need some electrical work, Satnav conversion and IVA inspection
- Will not have a GM three year European warranty
Don’t blame the Americans for this, if you think any other manufacturer is different then you’re kidding yourself. JLR used to import the Evoque to Brazil and pay all the import taxes as normal on the cars they sold there. Two years ago they built a factory outside Rio de Janeiro to assemble Evoque and Discovery Sports so that they didn’t have to pay the import taxes anymore. Now the cars are more expensive! They didn’t build the factory for the customers, they did it to improve their margins.
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