RE: Next BMW M3 confirmed as all-wheel drive...

[nickfrog]

Bladedancer said:

A1VDY said:

No one, absolutely no one 'buys' these cars, they're all rented out and returned we'll fked after 3 years. Available to everyone nowadays..

This is perhaps the saddest element of motoring these days.
People don't own these cars so they don't take care of them.

This is the saddest element of forums “these days“ : people making sweeping and absolute statements and assumptions while confusing their "opinions" with facts. Plenty of M cars bought with cash and plenty of them not owned and looked after well. Conversely, plenty of owners not looking after them.

[StuE39]

mcerbm said:

Anyone saying an electric M3 would be better in almost every metric, doesnt understand the absolute joy of driving a well pedalled engaging car with a three pedals, a well balanced chassis,and an entertaining engine.

An "M3 pure" sounds like a great idea, it isnt all about speed. A quick car that is a joy to interact with is what is most appealing to me. a 991 gt3 with a manual is my ideal car, plenty cars out there faster but that doesnt appeal.

A talented driver (think top level in British GT / BTCC / WEC) in a manual E46 M3 will lap a track quicker than 90% of the ownership of this new M3, its the driver that makes most of the difference. So why not enjoy the car at the time rather than going for all the aids to make the car quicker. especially turning it all electric!

This ^

I'm glad the new M3 doesn't have any sort of electric/hybrid assistance. Just a nice powerful petrol lump with 6 cylinders and potential choice of manual. These types of car still need to be engaging to drive (as engaging as 2019 at least). The engine sound (turbo, intake etc.) and the exhaust note add so much to the experience of driving these cars. Even the auto versions with paddle shifts allow the driver to enjoy control of the car.

[Chestrockwell]

nickfrog said:

Bladedancer said:

A1VDY said:

No one, absolutely no one 'buys' these cars, they're all rented out and returned we'll fked after 3 years. Available to everyone nowadays..

This is perhaps the saddest element of motoring these days.
People don't own these cars so they don't take care of them.

This is the saddest element of forums “these days“ : people making sweeping and absolute statements and assumptions while confusing their "opinions" with facts. Plenty of M cars bought with cash and plenty of them not owned and looked after well. Conversely, plenty of owners not looking after them.

I hate it when people go on like M3’s and C63’s are available to everyone. They really aren’t, cheapest PCP I could find on an M4 when I was looking was 6k down, 599 a month with 8k per year.

I’m sorry but that’s a lot of money and if it’s affordable to you, then you aren’t ‘everyone’. Most M4’s I see being driven around is by middle aged men, the odd youngster here and there, mainly down to mum and dads money which is fine as if my parents were rich, I wouldn’t say no to a car like an M4

[cerb4.5lee]

Chestrockwell said:

I wouldn’t say no to a car like an M4

Me too and I'd love one for sure, and I've wanted one since they first came out.

[Filos Hippos]

Thanks but no thanks...

6sp-manual N/A V8 RWD will do for the time being...

[RobM77]

BlueEyedBoy said:

RobM77 said:

I don't think someone needs to have £60k knocking around to have a preference between auto and manual or RWD and 4WD. I'd figured that one out by the age of 25 having owned only four road cars and driven only about 10-15 in total. By that time I had, like most car enthusiasts keen to experience as much as possible, tried cars with FWD, RWD and 4WD and both manual and auto boxes. All these years later my opinions haven't really changed, despite driving a lot more cars, including ones much faster than an M3 and worth more. £60k vs £20k really just means more power, more refinement and more gadgets; the basics of driving remain the same.

And? You really haven't said anything.

Well, you've quoted out the question I was answering. Someone stated that you needed to be able to afford a new M3 to have a gearbox preference or preference to which wheels are driven. I say that's just a fundamental of motoring present at any budget.

[Bladedancer]

nickfrog said:

Bladedancer said:

A1VDY said:

No one, absolutely no one 'buys' these cars, they're all rented out and returned we'll fked after 3 years. Available to everyone nowadays..

This is perhaps the saddest element of motoring these days.
People don't own these cars so they don't take care of them.

This is the saddest element of forums “these days“ : people making sweeping and absolute statements and assumptions while confusing their "opinions" with facts. Plenty of M cars bought with cash and plenty of them not owned and looked after well. Conversely, plenty of owners not looking after them.

I assume you have some sort of proof of this "plenty" claim? Or are you confusing your opinion with fact? You accuse me of sweeping statements but offer no proof yourself. Moot point then I guess. Also, I was making a general statement about PCP culture, but I accept it wasn't clear from the context so mea culpa on that one.

But let me ask a different question then.
Would you agree that effectively renting a car for 2-3 years, knowing you'll hand it back and it's sufficient to do bare minimum maintenance on said car and that any neglect will not come back to bite YOU in the back side is fostering a culture where people do not care about cars and simply see them as disposable?
As per your own jab, remember that how YOU would act isn't an indication of how MOST people would act.

[nickfrog]

Bladedancer said:

nickfrog said:

Bladedancer said:

A1VDY said:

No one, absolutely no one 'buys' these cars, they're all rented out and returned we'll fked after 3 years. Available to everyone nowadays..

This is perhaps the saddest element of motoring these days.
People don't own these cars so they don't take care of them.

This is the saddest element of forums “these days“ : people making sweeping and absolute statements and assumptions while confusing their "opinions" with facts. Plenty of M cars bought with cash and plenty of them not owned and looked after well. Conversely, plenty of owners not looking after them.

I assume you have some sort of proof of this "plenty" claim? Or are you confusing your opinion with fact? You accuse me of sweeping statements but offer no proof yourself. Moot point then I guess. Also, I was making a general statement about PCP culture, but I accept it wasn't clear from the context so mea culpa on that one.

But let me ask a different question then.
Would you agree that effectively renting a car for 2-3 years, knowing you'll hand it back and it's sufficient to do bare minimum maintenance on said car and that any neglect will not come back to bite YOU in the back side is fostering a culture where people do not care about cars and simply see them as disposable?
As per your own jab, remember that how YOU would act isn't an indication of how MOST people would act.

When people say “no one, absolutely no one“ and you agree with them, I conclude that no M3s have been bought for cash, which is quite an sweeping statemnet. But I know 3 people who have. I have no data but then again, I am convinced that some people have bought M3s for cash, so plenty of cars out there surely, not zero and certainly more than 2 as I know of 3. That's not a sweeping statement, that's an educated guess.

If you're in the market for one, just buy new or second hand making sure it was privately owned. But that won't be a guarantee that it hasn't been neglected. If you're not in the market for one, what's the problem? Car financing wasn't invented last Tuesday.

[Julian Thompson]

My M4 is a purchased long term keeper and I use it only occasionally (had it 2 years it’s done 1800 miles) and I really look after it much more than I would if it were rented - I appreciate we are in the minority but we are out there!

[SOL111]

Bladedancer said:

I assume you have some sort of proof of this "plenty" claim? Or are you confusing your opinion with fact? You accuse me of sweeping statements but offer no proof yourself. Moot point then I guess. Also, I was making a general statement about PCP culture, but I accept it wasn't clear from the context so mea culpa on that one.

But let me ask a different question then.
Would you agree that effectively renting a car for 2-3 years, knowing you'll hand it back and it's sufficient to do bare minimum maintenance on said car and that any neglect will not come back to bite YOU in the back side is fostering a culture where people do not care about cars and simply see them as disposable?
As per your own jab, remember that how YOU would act isn't an indication of how MOST people would act.

I've PCP'd a few BMW's now and it's standard to purchase the service pack as it's so much cheaper than paying for servicing as you go.

You could argue that some don't even bother but the risk is that you lose your warranty, should anything go wrong.

Add to that, you'll be charged extra upon return if you've failed to maintain the services required.

So it's way cheaper to service than not.

[E65Ross]

Bladedancer said:

I assume you have some sort of proof of this "plenty" claim? Or are you confusing your opinion with fact? You accuse me of sweeping statements but offer no proof yourself. Moot point then I guess. Also, I was making a general statement about PCP culture, but I accept it wasn't clear from the context so mea culpa on that one.

But let me ask a different question then.
Would you agree that effectively renting a car for 2-3 years, knowing you'll hand it back and it's sufficient to do bare minimum maintenance on said car and that any neglect will not come back to bite YOU in the back side is fostering a culture where people do not care about cars and simply see them as disposable?
As per your own jab, remember that how YOU would act isn't an indication of how MOST people would act.

No, Because in the agreements you need to have the car serviced, get penalised if it's handed back with scratches etc etc. Cars are all serviced according to the manufacturers recommendations.

[R.Sole]

Bladedancer said:

I assume you have some sort of proof of this "plenty" claim? Or are you confusing your opinion with fact? You accuse me of sweeping statements but offer no proof yourself. Moot point then I guess. Also, I was making a general statement about PCP culture, but I accept it wasn't clear from the context so mea culpa on that one.

But let me ask a different question then.
Would you agree that effectively renting a car for 2-3 years, knowing you'll hand it back and it's sufficient to do bare minimum maintenance on said car and that any neglect will not come back to bite YOU in the back side is fostering a culture where people do not care about cars and simply see them as disposable?
As per your own jab, remember that how YOU would act isn't an indication of how MOST people would act.

If you read the leasing thread there are plenty asking questions about putting part worn tyres and trying to hand back early to avoid an oil change and any dodge to save a few quid does not seem like people that are “looking after” cars!

[HM-2]

A1VDY said:

No one, absolutely no one 'buys' these cars, they're all rented out and returned we'll fked after 3 years. Available to everyone nowadays..

Do you ever post about anything other than how much you hate PCP?
It was boring when you started, and it's even more boring now.

[HighwayStar]

R.Sole said:

Bladedancer said:

I assume you have some sort of proof of this "plenty" claim? Or are you confusing your opinion with fact? You accuse me of sweeping statements but offer no proof yourself. Moot point then I guess. Also, I was making a general statement about PCP culture, but I accept it wasn't clear from the context so mea culpa on that one.

But let me ask a different question then.
Would you agree that effectively renting a car for 2-3 years, knowing you'll hand it back and it's sufficient to do bare minimum maintenance on said car and that any neglect will not come back to bite YOU in the back side is fostering a culture where people do not care about cars and simply see them as disposable?
As per your own jab, remember that how YOU would act isn't an indication of how MOST people would act.

If you read the leasing thread there are plenty asking questions about putting part worn tyres and trying to hand back early to avoid an oil change and any dodge to save a few quid does not seem like people that are “looking after” cars!

There will be people who don’t want to/can’t look after cars they PCP’d. PCP gets some people into a car they can afford the monthly’s on but the running costs, servicing fuel and consumables would be the killer.
Some want a nice car to swan around in but baulk at proper tyres etc. when the time comes.
I think an enthusiast who’s really into they’re cars and knows what they’re buying would be more inclined to look after their car irrespective of bought or PCP’d.

[RobM77]

Bladedancer said:

nickfrog said:

Bladedancer said:

A1VDY said:

No one, absolutely no one 'buys' these cars, they're all rented out and returned we'll fked after 3 years. Available to everyone nowadays..

This is perhaps the saddest element of motoring these days.
People don't own these cars so they don't take care of them.

This is the saddest element of forums “these days“ : people making sweeping and absolute statements and assumptions while confusing their "opinions" with facts. Plenty of M cars bought with cash and plenty of them not owned and looked after well. Conversely, plenty of owners not looking after them.

I assume you have some sort of proof of this "plenty" claim? Or are you confusing your opinion with fact? You accuse me of sweeping statements but offer no proof yourself. Moot point then I guess. Also, I was making a general statement about PCP culture, but I accept it wasn't clear from the context so mea culpa on that one.

But let me ask a different question then.
Would you agree that effectively renting a car for 2-3 years, knowing you'll hand it back and it's sufficient to do bare minimum maintenance on said car and that any neglect will not come back to bite YOU in the back side is fostering a culture where people do not care about cars and simply see them as disposable?
As per your own jab, remember that how YOU would act isn't an indication of how MOST people would act.

To be fair, the original claim was "absolutely nobody", so all anyone needs is to know just one person whose bought an M3 for cash and the claim is discredited!

[nickfrog]

R.Sole said:

If you read the leasing thread there are plenty asking questions about putting part worn tyres and trying to hand back early to avoid an oil change and any dodge to save a few quid does not seem like people that are “looking after” cars!

Are part worn tyres only bought by people who don't own their car? In what way letting someone else pay for the service when it, will be due change anything to the car's maintenance compliance?

[MDL111]

nickfrog said:

R.Sole said:

If you read the leasing thread there are plenty asking questions about putting part worn tyres and trying to hand back early to avoid an oil change and any dodge to save a few quid does not seem like people that are “looking after” cars!

Are part worn tyres only bought by people who don't own their car? In what way letting someone else pay for the service when it, will be due change anything to the car's maintenance compliance?

I think he might have a general point though that an enthusiast who plans to keep their car long(er) term might treat it better - eg make sure engine/gearbox gets warmed up/cooled down properly. Service it (eg oil change) more than the pure servicing schedule / get stuff checked after track days etc - preventative stuff basically as opposed to just sticking to the minimum servicing requirement per schedule

[R.Sole]

nickfrog said:

R.Sole said:

If you read the leasing thread there are plenty asking questions about putting part worn tyres and trying to hand back early to avoid an oil change and any dodge to save a few quid does not seem like people that are “looking after” cars!

Are part worn tyres only bought by people who don't own their car? In what way letting someone else pay for the service when it, will be due change anything to the car's maintenance compliance?

[anonymous-user]

I PCP'd my last M3. As my daily driver I didn't see any point in skimping on looking after it. Yes, good tyres cost £1k to replace all around, servicing isn't cheap and so on, but compared to the hundreds a month I was spending on the 'rental' it wasn't the end of the earth.

Certainly did't look after it differently to if I had bought it cash.

My wife's Volvo estate I leased because cheap. If it needs new tyres a month before it goes back, it'll be getting linglongs. Last weekend I spend about 3 hours hoovering, cleaning, polishing then waxing it.

Just because I wasn't daft enough to throw cash away into depreciation, doesn't mean I treat the thing like a motorised dustbin.

[stuart_83]

I PCP'd my current car, mainly because I got a hefty discount and 0% APR.

I look after it as if it's my own car - thoroughly detailed every time I clean it, it'll get serviced when needed, and quality tyres when it needs them. It's only ever run on super unleaded too.

I keep it immaculate, and park as far away from everyone as possible.

I've also bought a set of winter wheels and tyres for it.

Am I doing this wrong???