RE: Next BMW M3 confirmed as all-wheel drive...
Discussion
Bladedancer said:
This is perhaps the saddest element of motoring these days.
People don't own these cars so they don't take care of them. This just adds to the disposable goods culture we're seeing everywhere. Shame people who champion for eco solutions and recycling don't see how much waste is created by this.
What absolute nonsense. If you like cars you will take care of them regardless of how the car is financed. People don't own these cars so they don't take care of them. This just adds to the disposable goods culture we're seeing everywhere. Shame people who champion for eco solutions and recycling don't see how much waste is created by this.
TX.
Terminator X said:
Bladedancer said:
This is perhaps the saddest element of motoring these days.
People don't own these cars so they don't take care of them. This just adds to the disposable goods culture we're seeing everywhere. Shame people who champion for eco solutions and recycling don't see how much waste is created by this.
What absolute nonsense. If you like cars you will take care of them regardless of how the car is financed. People don't own these cars so they don't take care of them. This just adds to the disposable goods culture we're seeing everywhere. Shame people who champion for eco solutions and recycling don't see how much waste is created by this.
TX.
Niffty951 said:
Apologies for my original outburst of pessimism. I'm only bitter because old 911 values keep rising. It depressed me reading my own post.
That being said the last 550hp (ish) supercharged v8 8-speed auto I drove did disappoint me. When someone pulls out of the fast lane and you appropriately respond by denting the floor pan there seems an endless delay of various half selected gears before any torque actually gets to the rear wheels. You dare not plant the throttle early in anticipation as you can never be quite sure if you'll get a more immediate response and end up in the passenger seat of the car in front.
I'm 100% certain I enjoyed the response of my less potent 500hp E39 M5 (manual) more in the same scenario and to be honest probably preferred the E34 3.8's response even more than that. That thing really was immediate between the throttle pedal and the shove in the back. Endlessly satisfying and very much more usable in a bend!
What did you do to get the E39 to 500bhp? supercharged? I ran one for quite a few years and it was an excellent all rounder.That being said the last 550hp (ish) supercharged v8 8-speed auto I drove did disappoint me. When someone pulls out of the fast lane and you appropriately respond by denting the floor pan there seems an endless delay of various half selected gears before any torque actually gets to the rear wheels. You dare not plant the throttle early in anticipation as you can never be quite sure if you'll get a more immediate response and end up in the passenger seat of the car in front.
I'm 100% certain I enjoyed the response of my less potent 500hp E39 M5 (manual) more in the same scenario and to be honest probably preferred the E34 3.8's response even more than that. That thing really was immediate between the throttle pedal and the shove in the back. Endlessly satisfying and very much more usable in a bend!
Edited by Niffty951 on Thursday 8th August 22:13
E65Ross said:
No, Because in the agreements you need to have the car serviced, get penalised if it's handed back with scratches etc etc. Cars are all serviced according to the manufacturers recommendations.
SOL111 said:
I've PCP'd a few BMW's now and it's standard to purchase the service pack as it's so much cheaper than paying for servicing as you go.
You could argue that some don't even bother but the risk is that you lose your warranty, should anything go wrong.
Add to that, you'll be charged extra upon return if you've failed to maintain the services required.
So it's way cheaper to service than not.
Correct. However, it is sufficient to service it as per manufacturer, so it is enough to meet ridiculous 20k/2 years schedules of nowadays invented to keep fleet managers happy. Running in service? Nah, who needs that. If you thrash it and still service every 20k/2 years they won't bat an eyelash. Condition based servicing? Give me a break. I've seen oil from my old BMW when it was still happily claiming it'll do another 9k on it.You could argue that some don't even bother but the risk is that you lose your warranty, should anything go wrong.
Add to that, you'll be charged extra upon return if you've failed to maintain the services required.
So it's way cheaper to service than not.
This, of course, is nothing new and not connected to PCP. But short term lease in my opinion compounds the problem.
nickfrog said:
If you're in the market for one, just buy new or second hand making sure it was privately owned. But that won't be a guarantee that it hasn't been neglected. If you're not in the market for one, what's the problem? Car financing wasn't invented last Tuesday.
I'm in the market, but not for M3 specifically, but another performance car (need and estate otherwise M3/M5 would be an option) and quite a few cars I've given a miss just because the service book showed a car serviced every 18-20k and no run-in service. Frankly, bearing in mind the fact I was looking at what I'd consider high performance vehicles that require a fair bit of attention, I was a bit shocked that this was the servicing. Funny enough, most of these cars' previous owners were finance companies.Terminator X said:
What absolute nonsense. If you like cars you will take care of them regardless of how the car is financed.
TX.
And if you don't? To most people car is a car, a tool, a toy. They don't care about it as much as petrolheads.TX.
Finance like PCP made cars really easy to change cars. Because as long as you do a bare minimum to satisfy the paperwork, you won't be bitten by any problems that you might have caused and you won't have to sell the car yourself (and if I saw M car with services every 20k I'd most likely walk away and almost all enthusiasts I know share this sentiment). So you can just rag the living daylights out of a car, do bare minimum servicing required and just hand it in without consequences.
Bladedancer said:
it is sufficient to service it as per manufacturer, so it is enough to meet ridiculous 20k/2 years schedules
If you're actually using the performance on tap, there's no way you'll get 20k intervals in the variable servicing. Maybe 13-15k, which is still higher than I'd personally go for...but most of the cars sold for cash will equally have the buyer pick the fixed-price servicing option (as it's so cheap), so it's a moot point anyway as the non-PCP cars are typically not going to be serviced any more frequently anyway.Bladedancer said:
E65Ross said:
No, Because in the agreements you need to have the car serviced, get penalised if it's handed back with scratches etc etc. Cars are all serviced according to the manufacturers recommendations.
SOL111 said:
I've PCP'd a few BMW's now and it's standard to purchase the service pack as it's so much cheaper than paying for servicing as you go.
You could argue that some don't even bother but the risk is that you lose your warranty, should anything go wrong.
Add to that, you'll be charged extra upon return if you've failed to maintain the services required.
So it's way cheaper to service than not.
Correct. However, it is sufficient to service it as per manufacturer, so it is enough to meet ridiculous 20k/2 years schedules of nowadays invented to keep fleet managers happy. Running in service? Nah, who needs that. If you thrash it and still service every 20k/2 years they won't bat an eyelash. Condition based servicing? Give me a break. I've seen oil from my old BMW when it was still happily claiming it'll do another 9k on it.You could argue that some don't even bother but the risk is that you lose your warranty, should anything go wrong.
Add to that, you'll be charged extra upon return if you've failed to maintain the services required.
So it's way cheaper to service than not.
This, of course, is nothing new and not connected to PCP. But short term lease in my opinion compounds the problem.
nickfrog said:
If you're in the market for one, just buy new or second hand making sure it was privately owned. But that won't be a guarantee that it hasn't been neglected. If you're not in the market for one, what's the problem? Car financing wasn't invented last Tuesday.
I'm in the market, but not for M3 specifically, but another performance car (need and estate otherwise M3/M5 would be an option) and quite a few cars I've given a miss just because the service book showed a car serviced every 18-20k and no run-in service. Frankly, bearing in mind the fact I was looking at what I'd consider high performance vehicles that require a fair bit of attention, I was a bit shocked that this was the servicing. Funny enough, most of these cars' previous owners were finance companies.Terminator X said:
What absolute nonsense. If you like cars you will take care of them regardless of how the car is financed.
TX.
And if you don't? To most people car is a car, a tool, a toy. They don't care about it as much as petrolheads.TX.
Finance like PCP made cars really easy to change cars. Because as long as you do a bare minimum to satisfy the paperwork, you won't be bitten by any problems that you might have caused and you won't have to sell the car yourself (and if I saw M car with services every 20k I'd most likely walk away and almost all enthusiasts I know share this sentiment). So you can just rag the living daylights out of a car, do bare minimum servicing required and just hand it in without consequences.
It's clear that you've never owned a modern BMW as you'd know that the service intervals would drop like a stone if you ragged the crap out of one every day.
You're right about the bare minimum to some extent as the minimum is really all you need. You just seem to have missed the fact that the minimum is a variable that changes to make sure you don't ruin the car.
mcerbm said:
What did you do to get the E39 to 500bhp? supercharged? I ran one for quite a few years and it was an excellent all rounder.
Sadly I only did a bhp error! I meant 400hp.. it did still feel good though. Even to date I haven't experienced a car with better suspension. Stiff and flat when needed, superb body control and yet silent, supple and smooth over broken tarmac. The XF R came close but the M5 was masterful.SOL111 said:
The condition based service intervals are perfectly ok and exactly that, condition based. It has nothing to do with keeping fleet managers happy or they wouldn't offer 3 year unlimited mileage warranties.
It's clear that you've never owned a modern BMW as you'd know that the service intervals would drop like a stone if you ragged the crap out of one every day.
You're right about the bare minimum to some extent as the minimum is really all you need. You just seem to have missed the fact that the minimum is a variable that changes to make sure you don't ruin the car.
I did own a E92. Modern enough? And I've seen how the oil looked like after a year when the car still said it was good for another 9k miles.It's clear that you've never owned a modern BMW as you'd know that the service intervals would drop like a stone if you ragged the crap out of one every day.
You're right about the bare minimum to some extent as the minimum is really all you need. You just seem to have missed the fact that the minimum is a variable that changes to make sure you don't ruin the car.
But you are right, I didn't ragged the crap out of it every day. Not my thing but good for some I guess.
You think people will do the minimum and it'll be enough. 2 problems - they often don't do minimum and minimum is aimed at surviving the 3 year warranty you've mentioned.
I've lost count of how many cars I've seen that had a service schedule of "X miles or 12 months, whichever comes sooner" (says so in the damn book). And what do people do? 12 months, even if it means doing twice X miles in that time.
I find myself looking for a car at the moment. I look at service history of many cars for sale and just despair. Off-hand example, 2.0 liter, almost 300 hp, 1st service - 17k. 2nd service 37k miles. In 5 years. That's it. Good on you, you did bare minimum, it got to the end of its warranty, why wouldn't it? It's just 3 years after all. But then some years into car's life problems like 'oh look, cam chain has stretched' will start cropping up.
wab172uk said:
Why not offer a Manual with AWD? That's my preferred option.
Then give it that button, like on the M5, to turn the AWD off.
Exactly this.Then give it that button, like on the M5, to turn the AWD off.
As to the comments that the last M3 couldn't put the power down through the rear wheels. A bad chassis is no excuse for adding complexity. I feel the natural sensible limit for RWD seems to be 700hp ish, but 400hp through the rear wheels should not be any issue in a RWD. Not even with a peaky turbo like my old 944. The best of which now smoothly runs 420hp and 495lb/ft torque with under 1300kg.
Fastlane said:
I can't help but look at this and think, unless you are going to track it, why wouldn't you buy a Tesla Model 3 Performance instead?
I don't like the way they look inside or out, poor build quality, typically lots of niggles but the big one for me....joyless soulless motoring. I had a p85 for 2 weeks and I couldn't get my head around how something so quick was so dull and boring. But, having seen this pic of the new M3 I no longer want one of those either!
Bladedancer said:
SOL111 said:
The condition based service intervals are perfectly ok and exactly that, condition based. It has nothing to do with keeping fleet managers happy or they wouldn't offer 3 year unlimited mileage warranties.
It's clear that you've never owned a modern BMW as you'd know that the service intervals would drop like a stone if you ragged the crap out of one every day.
You're right about the bare minimum to some extent as the minimum is really all you need. You just seem to have missed the fact that the minimum is a variable that changes to make sure you don't ruin the car.
I did own a E92. Modern enough? And I've seen how the oil looked like after a year when the car still said it was good for another 9k miles.It's clear that you've never owned a modern BMW as you'd know that the service intervals would drop like a stone if you ragged the crap out of one every day.
You're right about the bare minimum to some extent as the minimum is really all you need. You just seem to have missed the fact that the minimum is a variable that changes to make sure you don't ruin the car.
But you are right, I didn't ragged the crap out of it every day. Not my thing but good for some I guess.
You think people will do the minimum and it'll be enough. 2 problems - they often don't do minimum and minimum is aimed at surviving the 3 year warranty you've mentioned.
I've lost count of how many cars I've seen that had a service schedule of "X miles or 12 months, whichever comes sooner" (says so in the damn book). And what do people do? 12 months, even if it means doing twice X miles in that time.
I find myself looking for a car at the moment. I look at service history of many cars for sale and just despair. Off-hand example, 2.0 liter, almost 300 hp, 1st service - 17k. 2nd service 37k miles. In 5 years. That's it. Good on you, you did bare minimum, it got to the end of its warranty, why wouldn't it? It's just 3 years after all. But then some years into car's life problems like 'oh look, cam chain has stretched' will start cropping up.
You can of course avoid all these issues you describe and pony up for a new car.....
wab172uk said:
Why not offer a Manual with AWD? That's my preferred option.
Then give it that button, like on the M5, to turn the AWD off.
Pretty sure this is explained in the original article. Perhaps not, but I'm sure I heard something about how the AWD version has too much power/torque for a manual gearbox so that will be reserved for the RWD version which has a less powerful/torquey engine. Then give it that button, like on the M5, to turn the AWD off.
"Any BMW M3 news is big news on PistonHeads - there are dozens of owners on here, the cars remain top searches on the classifieds, and they make great feature fodder, too. It's the archetypal BMW M car, so big changes are treated with some suspicion, as in the outgoing version using a turbocharged engine."
Justification for this non-story
Justification for this non-story
tim milne said:
"Any BMW M3 news is big news on PistonHeads - there are dozens of owners on here, the cars remain top searches on the classifieds, and they make great feature fodder, too. It's the archetypal BMW M car, so big changes are treated with some suspicion, as in the outgoing version using a turbocharged engine."
Justification for this non-story
I don't think it's a non-story, personally. New M3s are always a big deal for enthusiasts.Justification for this non-story
It's really going to depend on how the front end looks as to whether I'll even consider changing my current M4 for a new one, but I know for sure if I do get one I'll buy it on PCP this time just to annoy the s
t out of the hand wringers who posted earlier in this thread. 
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