RE: Why the Lotus Elise still matters | PH Footnote
Discussion
I think being into driving goes with out saying.
The Ginetta G4 laps quicker than Caterham on some tracks (last time I looked, going back). So I think that speaks for itself really.
The modern G40 looks more practical. Although I prefer the retro looks and smaller size of the G4.
A Ford Focus is a commercial success. Not sure that tells you which car has the best balance, lap times, smile factor.
The Ginetta G4 laps quicker than Caterham on some tracks (last time I looked, going back). So I think that speaks for itself really.
The modern G40 looks more practical. Although I prefer the retro looks and smaller size of the G4.
A Ford Focus is a commercial success. Not sure that tells you which car has the best balance, lap times, smile factor.
Edited by Kubevoid on Wednesday 14th August 19:55
Kubevoid said:
I think being into driving goes with out saying.
The Ginetta G4 laps quicker than Caterham on some tracks (last time I looked, going back). So I think that speaks for itself really.
The modern G40 looks more practical. Although I prefer the retro looks and smaller size of the G4.
A Ford Focus is a commercial success. Not sure that tells you which car has the best balance, lap times, smile factor.
A G4 or G40 is very crude by comparison with an Elise. Agree that commercial success isn't everything ( and lap times are pretty unrelated to smile factor) but if you aren't a success in your chosen niche that does tell you something. Genettas these days are quite successful as race cars - but don't make any real impact as road cars.The Ginetta G4 laps quicker than Caterham on some tracks (last time I looked, going back). So I think that speaks for itself really.
The modern G40 looks more practical. Although I prefer the retro looks and smaller size of the G4.
A Ford Focus is a commercial success. Not sure that tells you which car has the best balance, lap times, smile factor.
Edited by Kubevoid on Wednesday 14th August 19:55
Many good track cars don't have much road impact... Ultima, Radical, Bac Mono, etc. Not sure it has any meaning at all.
Factor in most people want to buy into a label, image, look, practicality, budget etc. It's not all a about the drive. Lotus have a lot of these covered. That's not to say they are the ultimate at one specific task
Factor in most people want to buy into a label, image, look, practicality, budget etc. It's not all a about the drive. Lotus have a lot of these covered. That's not to say they are the ultimate at one specific task
Kubevoid said:
Many good track cars don't have much road impact... Ultima, Radical, Bac Mono, etc. Not sure it has any meaning at all.
Factor in most people want to buy into a label, image, look, practicality, budget etc. It's not all a about the drive. Lotus have a lot of these covered. That's not to say they are the ultimate at one specific task
Factor in most people want to buy into a label, image, look, practicality, budget etc. It's not all a about the drive. Lotus have a lot of these covered. That's not to say they are the ultimate at one specific task
A good track car often isn't that good on the road, and vice versa. I've owned road legal trackday cars and they're normally a compromise in both environments. The Elise though, I must confess, is the nicest road car I've ever driven from a pure driving pleasure point of view. I can imagine how it could be better, but nobody's done that yet. I'm primarily thinking of improved ergonomics and better balance from a low mounted longitudinal engine. For now though, yes, the best I've tried.SidewaysSi said:
I think THE Julian Thompson bought a S1 Sport 160 not too long ago. In Titanium or similar I think.
I feel vindicated. I had a Scandal Green Sport 160 SVA, but it was always criticised. Needs a CR box, they'd say. Sounds like it's idling with a plug missing, they'd say. Needs verniers/Emerald and retiming, they'd say. No quicker than a 111s, they'd say. Poor man's Sport190, they'd say. Needs 7200RPM to get anywhere, they'd say. LSS suspension is rubbish, they'd say. Pah, stuff and nonsense! Amazing character. Lumpy idle sounded fantastic. Revved forever (and actually suited the long gearing because of it). Great ride.
And of course, the looks.. .Victories and a spoiler, and that interior!
Best Elise ever, of course*
(*apart from all the others)
TartanPaint said:
SidewaysSi said:
I think THE Julian Thompson bought a S1 Sport 160 not too long ago. In Titanium or similar I think.
I feel vindicated. I had a Scandal Green Sport 160 SVA, but it was always criticised. Needs a CR box, they'd say. Sounds like it's idling with a plug missing, they'd say. Needs verniers/Emerald and retiming, they'd say. No quicker than a 111s, they'd say. Poor man's Sport190, they'd say. Needs 7200RPM to get anywhere, they'd say. LSS suspension is rubbish, they'd say. Pah, stuff and nonsense! Amazing character. Lumpy idle sounded fantastic. Revved forever (and actually suited the long gearing because of it). Great ride.
And of course, the looks.. .Victories and a spoiler, and that interior!
Best Elise ever, of course*
(*apart from all the others)
Europa1 said:
SidewaysSi said:
I think THE Julian Thompson bought a S1 Sport 160 not too long ago. In Titanium or similar I think.
Who is THE Julian Thompson?otolith said:
Europa1 said:
SidewaysSi said:
I think THE Julian Thompson bought a S1 Sport 160 not too long ago. In Titanium or similar I think.
Who is THE Julian Thompson?
Europa1 said:
otolith said:
Europa1 said:
SidewaysSi said:
I think THE Julian Thompson bought a S1 Sport 160 not too long ago. In Titanium or similar I think.
Who is THE Julian Thompson?I think the "real" one bought a Sport 160 not too long ago. There was a thread on SELOC on it but I can't find it unfortunately.
I was thinking about taking my car to DVA but he wasn't very pro the lumpy 160...I do love the sound though and don't want rid but another 25bhp and a bit more torque would be nice.
Europa1 said:
otolith said:
Europa1 said:
SidewaysSi said:
I think THE Julian Thompson bought a S1 Sport 160 not too long ago. In Titanium or similar I think.
Who is THE Julian Thompson?
Different class of car really, but while we were discussing how rivals feel...
What are your thoughts on the GT4? I've not been in one so was curious. On paper it would seem an interesting idea: GT3 front suspension, entierly new custom rear suspension setup, 911 power, mid engined rather than the mass being way out the back. With presumably some decent mass out the front (due to a larger metal body and structure than the lotus) it should have good balance... yes?
Ignoring the cost, badge, creature comforts etc... I'd be interested to hear your driving impressions. I saw a tuned one keeping in front of a Caterham 620 on YT. Not that the driver of the 7 looked too determined. But still looks like it has pace.
What are your thoughts on the GT4? I've not been in one so was curious. On paper it would seem an interesting idea: GT3 front suspension, entierly new custom rear suspension setup, 911 power, mid engined rather than the mass being way out the back. With presumably some decent mass out the front (due to a larger metal body and structure than the lotus) it should have good balance... yes?
Ignoring the cost, badge, creature comforts etc... I'd be interested to hear your driving impressions. I saw a tuned one keeping in front of a Caterham 620 on YT. Not that the driver of the 7 looked too determined. But still looks like it has pace.
Kubevoid said:
Different class of car really, but while we were discussing how rivals feel...
What are your thoughts on the GT4? I've not been in one so was curious. On paper it would seem an interesting idea: GT3 front suspension, entierly new custom rear suspension setup, 911 power, mid engined rather than the mass being way out the back. With presumably some decent mass out the front (due to a larger metal body and structure than the lotus) it should have good balance... yes?
Ignoring the cost, badge, creature comforts etc... I'd be interested to hear your driving impressions. I saw a tuned one keeping in front of a Caterham 620 on YT. Not that the driver of the 7 looked too determined. But still looks like it has pace.
Si will comment more fully.What are your thoughts on the GT4? I've not been in one so was curious. On paper it would seem an interesting idea: GT3 front suspension, entierly new custom rear suspension setup, 911 power, mid engined rather than the mass being way out the back. With presumably some decent mass out the front (due to a larger metal body and structure than the lotus) it should have good balance... yes?
Ignoring the cost, badge, creature comforts etc... I'd be interested to hear your driving impressions. I saw a tuned one keeping in front of a Caterham 620 on YT. Not that the driver of the 7 looked too determined. But still looks like it has pace.
i've been in one twice now, for 10 min stints on track. they're are undoubtedly competent, fantastic machines. i think the Ring would be its natural hunting ground , where it would come alive. BUT...it's maybe too competent. more about the fantastic car than you the driver (unless at high speed circuit). Porsche have made something so 'good' that it's why this article was written.
CABC said:
Kubevoid said:
Different class of car really, but while we were discussing how rivals feel...
What are your thoughts on the GT4? I've not been in one so was curious. On paper it would seem an interesting idea: GT3 front suspension, entierly new custom rear suspension setup, 911 power, mid engined rather than the mass being way out the back. With presumably some decent mass out the front (due to a larger metal body and structure than the lotus) it should have good balance... yes?
Ignoring the cost, badge, creature comforts etc... I'd be interested to hear your driving impressions. I saw a tuned one keeping in front of a Caterham 620 on YT. Not that the driver of the 7 looked too determined. But still looks like it has pace.
Si will comment more fully.What are your thoughts on the GT4? I've not been in one so was curious. On paper it would seem an interesting idea: GT3 front suspension, entierly new custom rear suspension setup, 911 power, mid engined rather than the mass being way out the back. With presumably some decent mass out the front (due to a larger metal body and structure than the lotus) it should have good balance... yes?
Ignoring the cost, badge, creature comforts etc... I'd be interested to hear your driving impressions. I saw a tuned one keeping in front of a Caterham 620 on YT. Not that the driver of the 7 looked too determined. But still looks like it has pace.
i've been in one twice now, for 10 min stints on track. they're are undoubtedly competent, fantastic machines. i think the Ring would be its natural hunting ground , where it would come alive. BUT...it's maybe too competent. more about the fantastic car than you the driver (unless at high speed circuit). Porsche have made something so 'good' that it's why this article was written.
On road in the UK, the Cayman just didn't provide anywhere near the thrills of the other two. It really was a huge disappointment as I love stuff that provide a visceral hit- it had poor steering, tall gearing etc. On track, it is hugely competent but again I preferred the other two for on/over the limit thrills.
If you have never driven a proper lightweight or want a consumate all rounder, perhaps to be a sole car then the GT4 has huge appeal. I think if you wanted to do a long Euro trip with the Mrs then it is probably the only answer (though I did 1000 miles in 2 days to the 'Ring and back in the Elise which was hugely comfortable, except for the lack of air con).
However you are kidding yourself if you think you are having even half the fun of someone in one of the others.
I do love Porsches though - however at the £100k ish level, I would go for a modded 964 or even a 996 GT3 with some Manthey bits and perhaps a set of Motons..
The GT4 is too competent and to be honest quite dull. Much like most new cars...
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