RE: MSO to showcase GT options at Pebble Beach
Discussion
mikey k said:
redroadster said:
Bentley or Aston over this poorly hashed together remake .
Remake of what?Having had two Astons and a McLaren I will NEVER buy another Aston
Bentleys not my thing
I think this will be an interesting car.
Not many mid engined carbon tubbed GT cars out there
thecook101 said:
The3rdDukeofB said:
thecook101 said:
I smell a company up for sale. Launch a brand. Disrupt the established players. Hit your numbers through preregistration. Sell to a giant who can scale it.
And said by another savvy PH'er who is well within the Mcl magic circleThey are majority owned by a Bahrain Investment Co with Mansour of TAG fame now only holding 19%.
I can't ever see McLaren Automotive going for scale, none of their competitors have, they all sell on "performance and technology" at a premium and high margin. Volume drags the premium and margin down.
In fairness to the current owners they are investing ie new tub manufacturing plant in Sheffield
But they will never have the deep pockets of Fiat (for Ferrari) or VAG (for Bentley, Porsche, Audi and Lambo) so have to make the most of what they have, like the engine and CF tubs.
Same issue all the smaller guys have including Morgan, Lotus and Aston face.
MAC 720S said:
mikey k said:
Rumour has it they are well down the route with a second engine
That said its never hurt Lotus or Aston who have bother relied on the same tub and engines for well over a decade until recently.
New engine and car to be introduced in 2020 = Hybrid. Will replace the 540, 570 and 600LT.That said its never hurt Lotus or Aston who have bother relied on the same tub and engines for well over a decade until recently.
Explained in an interview with Mike Flewitt
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/first-...
Aware of that one
Suitably vague
Could well be an iteration of the M840T in the 720
redroadster said:
mikey k said:
redroadster said:
Bentley or Aston over this poorly hashed together remake .
Remake of what?Having had two Astons and a McLaren I will NEVER buy another Aston
Bentleys not my thing
I think this will be an interesting car.
Not many mid engined carbon tubbed GT cars out there
As an owner I agree they ought to address the deprecation issue, but it is no worse than Maserati, Aston or Bentley.
For such a young, high end car manufacturer that have achieved some amazing things and as one the few remaining British based sports car manufacturers I'm happy to support them.
i agree with @cook101 and @3rd duke. this is a company whose business plan ends with ideas of a sale or flotation. good luck with that - how did the aston martin ipo go? i really hope they survive as i want to get behind british manufacturers of course, but this secondary market might kill the primary at the rate they are going. those bankrolling mcl at the moment will need even deeper pockets to keep this show rolling.
mikey k said:
thecook101 said:
The3rdDukeofB said:
thecook101 said:
I smell a company up for sale. Launch a brand. Disrupt the established players. Hit your numbers through preregistration. Sell to a giant who can scale it.
And said by another savvy PH'er who is well within the Mcl magic circleThey are majority owned by a Bahrain Investment Co with Mansour of TAG fame now only holding 19%.
I can't ever see McLaren Automotive going for scale, none of their competitors have, they all sell on "performance and technology" at a premium and high margin. Volume drags the premium and margin down.
In fairness to the current owners they are investing ie new tub manufacturing plant in Sheffield
But they will never have the deep pockets of Fiat (for Ferrari) or VAG (for Bentley, Porsche, Audi and Lambo) so have to make the most of what they have, like the engine and CF tubs.
Same issue all the smaller guys have including Morgan, Lotus and Aston face.
Gandahar said:
I think Mclaren need to start thinking about another engine and mono cell before it comes a bit of a joke. All their models are the same Barbie doll that you can fit extra outfits on to do different things .
A Mclaren V12 with bigger body that seats 4 or 2+2 as a GT would certainly get a lot of sales and be more comparable to Aston, Ferrari, Bentley etc.
As i have said before Ferrari took 21 years to develop a new engine. You really need to look at your history before making stupid commentsA Mclaren V12 with bigger body that seats 4 or 2+2 as a GT would certainly get a lot of sales and be more comparable to Aston, Ferrari, Bentley etc.
This is just a more expensive equivalent of the Lotus Europa S that was produced in the late 00s.
Supposedly a bit softer, spacious and more practical than an Elise and easier to live with day to day but in reality the differences were minimal and as a result it didn't sell very well.
Supposedly a bit softer, spacious and more practical than an Elise and easier to live with day to day but in reality the differences were minimal and as a result it didn't sell very well.
Wammer said:
Gandahar said:
I think Mclaren need to start thinking about another engine and mono cell before it comes a bit of a joke. All their models are the same Barbie doll that you can fit extra outfits on to do different things .
A Mclaren V12 with bigger body that seats 4 or 2+2 as a GT would certainly get a lot of sales and be more comparable to Aston, Ferrari, Bentley etc.
As i have said before Ferrari took 21 years to develop a new engine. You really need to look at your history before making stupid commentsA Mclaren V12 with bigger body that seats 4 or 2+2 as a GT would certainly get a lot of sales and be more comparable to Aston, Ferrari, Bentley etc.
The fact it'll take a while to engineer and get past legislation is another (related) topic altogether.
Ferrari took 21 to develop an engine (probably about 30 years ago??) times have changed.
History isn't always an indicator of the present restrictions/limitations.
The point that McLaren have milked this platform (for me) is/feels valid.
If I were McLaren I'd be doing what Lotus has done....and produce a snazzy totally lecky vehicle...also more akin to Lagonda's intent... whatever it is, it uses a new powertrain for a different market sector that develops on, or shifts completely from, the design language they've tried so far.
Wammer said:
Gandahar said:
I think Mclaren need to start thinking about another engine and mono cell before it comes a bit of a joke. All their models are the same Barbie doll that you can fit extra outfits on to do different things .
A Mclaren V12 with bigger body that seats 4 or 2+2 as a GT would certainly get a lot of sales and be more comparable to Aston, Ferrari, Bentley etc.
As i have said before Ferrari took 21 years to develop a new engine. You really need to look at your history before making stupid commentsA Mclaren V12 with bigger body that seats 4 or 2+2 as a GT would certainly get a lot of sales and be more comparable to Aston, Ferrari, Bentley etc.
How many cars (ie unit sales) did they build with that engine vs how many had McL so far built with variations of the same engine? I am taking a wild guess that it is fewer overall cars in those 21 years than McL in the last 10. In addition, Ferrari built 2 and 4 seaters with that engine - not just 2 seaters - which helps to cover multiple market segments
Overall a rather meaningless comparison as a rebuttal given Market size and dynamics then vs now
Quickmoose said:
If I were McLaren I'd be doing what Lotus has done....and produce a snazzy totally lecky vehicle...also more akin to Lagonda's intent... whatever it is, it uses a new powertrain for a different market sector that develops on, or shifts completely from, the design language they've tried so far.
Watch this space McLaren Applied Technology have been supplying all the Formula E teams with exactly this tech for 6 years.McLaren doesn't have to prove anything to anyone. They are growing and profitable without SUVs and 2+2 because of their carbon fibre tub and engine. Why would they mess with a winning formula and spend beyond their means? Do you guys know how rare and difficult it is to be an independent and profitable sports car maker right now with all the modern safety and emission rules? People should just appreciate their engineering talents with the budget they have. They and BMW with the i8 have the best carbon fibre tech in the industry, and BMW has an annual R&D budget that runs into the billions. That carbon fibre tech, best in class chassis and hydraulic steering wheel, rear wheel drive and yes that engine is what makes them unique and profitable.
It is a horrible colour, agreed. Not a big fan of the styling, though the interior is nice but again, in agreement that it's not a patch on the Bentley GT or the Aston. The only thing you could say is that maybe it's a slightly different take on the conventional GT as it were? Would like to see it all one colour and to lose the Vauxhall Adam chrome roof line trim..... then maybe make a judgement then. Oh, and a decent style of alloy wheels too!
Manwomanfree said:
McLaren doesn't have to prove anything to anyone. They are growing and profitable without SUVs and 2+2 because of their carbon fibre tub and engine. Why would they mess with a winning formula and spend beyond their means? Do you guys know how rare and difficult it is to be an independent and profitable sports car maker right now with all the modern safety and emission rules? People should just appreciate their engineering talents with the budget they have. They and BMW with the i8 have the best carbon fibre tech in the industry, and BMW has an annual R&D budget that runs into the billions. That carbon fibre tech, best in class chassis and hydraulic steering wheel, rear wheel drive and yes that engine is what makes them unique and profitable.
Amen!And the i8 tub is nowhere near as well designed as the McLaren one.
Got one on loan for a weekend shortly so it will be interesting to compare the two
Manwomanfree said:
McLaren doesn't have to prove anything to anyone. They are growing and profitable without SUVs and 2+2 because of their carbon fibre tub and engine. Why would they mess with a winning formula and spend beyond their means? Do you guys know how rare and difficult it is to be an independent and profitable sports car maker right now with all the modern safety and emission rules? People should just appreciate their engineering talents with the budget they have. They and BMW with the i8 have the best carbon fibre tech in the industry, and BMW has an annual R&D budget that runs into the billions. That carbon fibre tech, best in class chassis and hydraulic steering wheel, rear wheel drive and yes that engine is what makes them unique and profitable.
I don’t think anyone has knocked their abilities- just this as a Carbis not hitting the intended mark as a GT is the general view, unless fanboy.There is a reason for this in that they believe a plethora of so called different cars can be delivered to the market, yet remarkably similar.
PS2018 said:
i agree with @cook101 and @3rd duke. this is a company whose business plan ends with ideas of a sale or flotation. good luck with that - how did the aston martin ipo go? i really hope they survive as i want to get behind british manufacturers of course, but this secondary market might kill the primary at the rate they are going. those bankrolling mcl at the moment will need even deeper pockets to keep this show rolling.
I agree. As a non-1percenter, I won't buy a McLaren again because of the dysfunctional secondary market and some (not all!) rather s
tty dealers that take advantage of the lack of independent shops. Note, this is for a non-UK market, things work better in the UK I hear. But I can't even begin to tell all the b***s*** the local dealer is pulling here. Delivered my 2014 car in 2018 on 2011 tires, tried to sell me an extra set of Pirelli by underrepresenting the tread depth by 2mm, never got the center compartment working, refused to change worn out door opening patches on (factory) warranty because hey, the doors work, right, forgot that he agreed to sell my car for a commission when someone enquired so that he could push out his own hopelessly overstocked inventory, .....Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff