VW - Becoming an SUV brand
Discussion
If people on here have a meltdown over VW producing a larger range of SUV type vehicles I cant wait until all of the ICE options are slowly removed in favour of the electric alternatives.
Change happens, peoples tastes and perceived / real requirements change and a company wants to make a profit, you don't have to do extensive research to see the absolutely miniscule number of newer 'sports' cars out on the road now for example compared to premium SUV's
How many newer SLC / Cayman / Z4's do you see out on the road now compared to comparatively priced SUV models from the same manufacturer? Porsche would be on its arse now if it wasn't for the range of 'SUV's.
Change happens, peoples tastes and perceived / real requirements change and a company wants to make a profit, you don't have to do extensive research to see the absolutely miniscule number of newer 'sports' cars out on the road now for example compared to premium SUV's
How many newer SLC / Cayman / Z4's do you see out on the road now compared to comparatively priced SUV models from the same manufacturer? Porsche would be on its arse now if it wasn't for the range of 'SUV's.
cmvtec said:
My kingdom for a good looking saloon car.
The UK was for years a bit weird for wanting hatchbacks over saloons. The Continent, USA and most other countries had saloon versions of cars we only ever got as hatchbacks. The rest of the world saw hatchbacks as a bit utilitarian and ugly, compromising style for practicality. Blakewater said:
The UK was for years a bit weird for wanting hatchbacks over saloons. The Continent, USA and most other countries had saloon versions of cars we only ever got as hatchbacks. The rest of the world saw hatchbacks as a bit utilitarian and ugly, compromising style for practicality.
The thing is, why would you buy a Jetta when you could buy the Golf. I think we leapt at hatchbacks because they have the same cabin space as their comparable saloon but a the practical boot space of an estate. The big saloons always had the alternative of an estate option but if you wanted a smaller car then the hatchback was just more usable. The crossover is really just a subsect of the hatchback that is partly possible because hatchbacks have grown so much in size but also because more people want to benefit from either sitting higher up or not having to drop down so low to get in. It’s probably why they have become so popular as modest family wagons and motobility vehicles.
The big SUVs have really evolved from the 4x4 segment combining with the big saloon/estate segments. Marrying the benefits of all three into one vehicle.
spookly said:
People should just buy what they want.
But.... claiming modern SUVs and CUVs are more practical is rubbish. Very few have any more load space or passenger space than their hatchback/estate equivalents, and quite a few have less space.
Different people have different needs, for some, a SUV is more practical. But.... claiming modern SUVs and CUVs are more practical is rubbish. Very few have any more load space or passenger space than their hatchback/estate equivalents, and quite a few have less space.
RDMcG said:
The never-ending conversation.
If there is a demand it will be filled. In the US demand for conventional cars is nearly zero.
SUVs are easy to get into, easy to pile kids and the dog, and people can see further. They are not bought for off-roading Even proper off-roaders like Jeep Wranglers are frequently just used on the road.
Although I have some fast cars, my old Cayenne is an essential vehicle. 12 years old and equipped for towing .has transported many Great Danes in its life and is also a default choice for older passengers. Many people find conventional cars too low. I recently helped a man of 90 into my Panamera but it was so much easier to have him travel in my battered old Cayenne.
I do not find SUV drivers especially different to others except in one period -first snowstorm. Sometimes people do not put on snow tires and also forget the laws of physics and fail to allow proper braking distances.
I still enjoy driving a conventional old manual but would not be without an SUV.
Not having a go at you, but that doesn't seem to answer the question. MPVs and hatchbacks do the exact same thing, apart from the 'seeing a bit further' - but I can't help that is because more people have these types of cars they block the view ahead with their height, so you therefore need to get one.If there is a demand it will be filled. In the US demand for conventional cars is nearly zero.
SUVs are easy to get into, easy to pile kids and the dog, and people can see further. They are not bought for off-roading Even proper off-roaders like Jeep Wranglers are frequently just used on the road.
Although I have some fast cars, my old Cayenne is an essential vehicle. 12 years old and equipped for towing .has transported many Great Danes in its life and is also a default choice for older passengers. Many people find conventional cars too low. I recently helped a man of 90 into my Panamera but it was so much easier to have him travel in my battered old Cayenne.
I do not find SUV drivers especially different to others except in one period -first snowstorm. Sometimes people do not put on snow tires and also forget the laws of physics and fail to allow proper braking distances.
I still enjoy driving a conventional old manual but would not be without an SUV.
I don't buy into the counter argument that they then are bought because of style or the 4x4 image because they are becoming increasingly more car like (as you can imagine) plus the fact that most people seem to have one, renders that a bit obsolete.
2002 said:
Not having a go at you, but that doesn't seem to answer the question. MPVs and hatchbacks do the exact same thing, apart from the 'seeing a bit further' - but I can't help that is because more people have these types of cars they block the view ahead with their height, so you therefore need to get one.
I don't buy into the counter argument that they then are bought because of style or the 4x4 image because they are becoming increasingly more car like (as you can imagine) plus the fact that most people seem to have one, renders that a bit obsolete.
Not sure I could do all this:I don't buy into the counter argument that they then are bought because of style or the 4x4 image because they are becoming increasingly more car like (as you can imagine) plus the fact that most people seem to have one, renders that a bit obsolete.
I have a Panamera Turbo ST and it cannot march the Cayenne for Towing ( 7700 lbs), hauling Great Danes, or very deep snow....
2002 said:
Not having a go at you, but that doesn't seem to answer the question. MPVs and hatchbacks do the exact same thing, apart from the 'seeing a bit further' - but I can't help that is because more people have these types of cars they block the view ahead with their height, so you therefore need to get one.
.
I think it’s valid to suggest that there is a bit of an arms race going on in terms of size. Thwre is also the possible argument that height has been normalised so crossovers don’t stand out as they would twenty years ago. Maybe there is even an argument that as society becomes more sedentary they desire more chattels that give the illusion of activity. But we also have an aging population and these cars are easier to live with. And they do offer more space even if it’s just extra headroom. .
RDMcG said:
2002 said:
Not having a go at you, but that doesn't seem to answer the question. MPVs and hatchbacks do the exact same thing, apart from the 'seeing a bit further' - but I can't help that is because more people have these types of cars they block the view ahead with their height, so you therefore need to get one.
I don't buy into the counter argument that they then are bought because of style or the 4x4 image because they are becoming increasingly more car like (as you can imagine) plus the fact that most people seem to have one, renders that a bit obsolete.
Not sure I could do all this:I don't buy into the counter argument that they then are bought because of style or the 4x4 image because they are becoming increasingly more car like (as you can imagine) plus the fact that most people seem to have one, renders that a bit obsolete.
I have a Panamera Turbo ST and it cannot march the Cayenne for Towing ( 7700 lbs), hauling Great Danes, or very deep snow....
DonkeyApple said:
2002 said:
Not having a go at you, but that doesn't seem to answer the question. MPVs and hatchbacks do the exact same thing, apart from the 'seeing a bit further' - but I can't help that is because more people have these types of cars they block the view ahead with their height, so you therefore need to get one.
.
I think it’s valid to suggest that there is a bit of an arms race going on in terms of size. Thwre is also the possible argument that height has been normalised so crossovers don’t stand out as they would twenty years ago. Maybe there is even an argument that as society becomes more sedentary they desire more chattels that give the illusion of activity. But we also have an aging population and these cars are easier to live with. And they do offer more space even if it’s just extra headroom. .
Cloudy147 said:
DonkeyApple said:
2002 said:
Not having a go at you, but that doesn't seem to answer the question. MPVs and hatchbacks do the exact same thing, apart from the 'seeing a bit further' - but I can't help that is because more people have these types of cars they block the view ahead with their height, so you therefore need to get one.
.
I think it’s valid to suggest that there is a bit of an arms race going on in terms of size. Thwre is also the possible argument that height has been normalised so crossovers don’t stand out as they would twenty years ago. Maybe there is even an argument that as society becomes more sedentary they desire more chattels that give the illusion of activity. But we also have an aging population and these cars are easier to live with. And they do offer more space even if it’s just extra headroom. .
Seat height adjustment? It isn't ideal for other reasons, in terms of overall comfort, but have a Golf that doesn't have the seat on the floor, but at that setting does give me at least a couple of inches of headroom. Mind you, I'm 3" shorter and only have an occasionally misbehaving back.
Not quite sure that's worth 500kg and so on but I guess everyone has to hang their hat on something .
As for the ageing population, I would have thought that the older you get, the harder the climb into the cabin becomes.
DoubleD said:
DukeDickson said:
As for the ageing population, I would have thought that the older you get, the harder the climb into the cabin becomes.
A climb into the seat is easier for some, than trying to get up out of the seat of a lower car. People don't want SUVs, manufacturers want to sell SUVs.
Manufacturers prefer selling SUVs because they are more profitable. Take a hatch, add £700 of parts and ugly body kit then sell it for £3000 more. That's £2300 of pure profit. A bit of a simplification, but the principle is the same. People expect hatches to be cheap, SUVs on the other hand do not have this expectation.
No one actually wants an SUV, that is obvious by the language and excuses they use. No-one says they "want" an SUV, they claim they "need" an SUV in order to kart their one kid about. Then you get all the excuses about not being able to put a small dog into an estate when their SUV has less cabin space than an estate.
Also, SUV drivers are dangerous, I just had a Toerag almost back into my MR2 until I leant on the horn pretty hard. I'm not sure they would even have been able to see my car even if they used their rear vision mirror. Blind spots on SUVs are massive and SUV drivers like to pretend that blind spots don't exist.
Manufacturers prefer selling SUVs because they are more profitable. Take a hatch, add £700 of parts and ugly body kit then sell it for £3000 more. That's £2300 of pure profit. A bit of a simplification, but the principle is the same. People expect hatches to be cheap, SUVs on the other hand do not have this expectation.
No one actually wants an SUV, that is obvious by the language and excuses they use. No-one says they "want" an SUV, they claim they "need" an SUV in order to kart their one kid about. Then you get all the excuses about not being able to put a small dog into an estate when their SUV has less cabin space than an estate.
Also, SUV drivers are dangerous, I just had a Toerag almost back into my MR2 until I leant on the horn pretty hard. I'm not sure they would even have been able to see my car even if they used their rear vision mirror. Blind spots on SUVs are massive and SUV drivers like to pretend that blind spots don't exist.
It's just fashion. As somebody has pointed out, cars in olden times were similar to the "crossover" architecture. The UK roads were not all metalled in the early 20th century, though.
Bicycles have gone the same way. "gravel bikes" are all the rage. 10 years ago tourers (very similar) were terribly unfashionable. The gravel bike is similar in concept to the drop barred bicycle that my grandad rode in the 1920s/30s. Hybrids are similar to the sit up and beg that my other grandad commuted on.
Not all Crossovers are the same:
I had a Seat Arona rental on holiday. It was quite practical as a town car, but wholly undesirable.
I have had Fiat 500x rental in the past. It was rubbish as a town car, but came alive a bit when driven hard.
I was surprised by how small the interior of a friend's Qashqai is.
Bicycles have gone the same way. "gravel bikes" are all the rage. 10 years ago tourers (very similar) were terribly unfashionable. The gravel bike is similar in concept to the drop barred bicycle that my grandad rode in the 1920s/30s. Hybrids are similar to the sit up and beg that my other grandad commuted on.
Not all Crossovers are the same:
I had a Seat Arona rental on holiday. It was quite practical as a town car, but wholly undesirable.
I have had Fiat 500x rental in the past. It was rubbish as a town car, but came alive a bit when driven hard.
I was surprised by how small the interior of a friend's Qashqai is.
MC Bodge said:
It's just fashion. As somebody has pointed out, cars in olden times were similar to the "crossover" architecture. The UK roads were not all metalled in the early 20th century, though.
probably here to stay I think. They offer more comfort in seating/access without the uncoolness of mpvs.My mrs is chopping here 330ci in for a Subaru forrester, largely because she's fed up being the smallest thing on the road unable to see past anything, so the arms race analogy is correct.
captain_cynic said:
People don't want SUVs, manufacturers want to sell SUVs.
Manufacturers prefer selling SUVs because they are more profitable. Take a hatch, add £700 of parts and ugly body kit then sell it for £3000 more. That's £2300 of pure profit. A bit of a simplification, but the principle is the same. People expect hatches to be cheap, SUVs on the other hand do not have this expectation.
No one actually wants an SUV, that is obvious by the language and excuses they use. No-one says they "want" an SUV, they claim they "need" an SUV in order to kart their one kid about. Then you get all the excuses about not being able to put a small dog into an estate when their SUV has less cabin space than an estate.
Also, SUV drivers are dangerous, I just had a Toerag almost back into my MR2 until I leant on the horn pretty hard. I'm not sure they would even have been able to see my car even if they used their rear vision mirror. Blind spots on SUVs are massive and SUV drivers like to pretend that blind spots don't exist.
So the best way to sell something no one wants is to charge more money than the thing that they do want? Righto. Manufacturers prefer selling SUVs because they are more profitable. Take a hatch, add £700 of parts and ugly body kit then sell it for £3000 more. That's £2300 of pure profit. A bit of a simplification, but the principle is the same. People expect hatches to be cheap, SUVs on the other hand do not have this expectation.
No one actually wants an SUV, that is obvious by the language and excuses they use. No-one says they "want" an SUV, they claim they "need" an SUV in order to kart their one kid about. Then you get all the excuses about not being able to put a small dog into an estate when their SUV has less cabin space than an estate.
Also, SUV drivers are dangerous, I just had a Toerag almost back into my MR2 until I leant on the horn pretty hard. I'm not sure they would even have been able to see my car even if they used their rear vision mirror. Blind spots on SUVs are massive and SUV drivers like to pretend that blind spots don't exist.
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