VW - Becoming an SUV brand
Discussion
DonkeyApple said:
captain_cynic said:
People don't want SUVs, manufacturers want to sell SUVs.
Manufacturers prefer selling SUVs because they are more profitable. Take a hatch, add £700 of parts and ugly body kit then sell it for £3000 more. That's £2300 of pure profit. A bit of a simplification, but the principle is the same. People expect hatches to be cheap, SUVs on the other hand do not have this expectation.
No one actually wants an SUV, that is obvious by the language and excuses they use. No-one says they "want" an SUV, they claim they "need" an SUV in order to kart their one kid about. Then you get all the excuses about not being able to put a small dog into an estate when their SUV has less cabin space than an estate.
Also, SUV drivers are dangerous, I just had a Toerag almost back into my MR2 until I leant on the horn pretty hard. I'm not sure they would even have been able to see my car even if they used their rear vision mirror. Blind spots on SUVs are massive and SUV drivers like to pretend that blind spots don't exist.
So the best way to sell something no one wants is to charge more money than the thing that they do want? Righto. Manufacturers prefer selling SUVs because they are more profitable. Take a hatch, add £700 of parts and ugly body kit then sell it for £3000 more. That's £2300 of pure profit. A bit of a simplification, but the principle is the same. People expect hatches to be cheap, SUVs on the other hand do not have this expectation.
No one actually wants an SUV, that is obvious by the language and excuses they use. No-one says they "want" an SUV, they claim they "need" an SUV in order to kart their one kid about. Then you get all the excuses about not being able to put a small dog into an estate when their SUV has less cabin space than an estate.
Also, SUV drivers are dangerous, I just had a Toerag almost back into my MR2 until I leant on the horn pretty hard. I'm not sure they would even have been able to see my car even if they used their rear vision mirror. Blind spots on SUVs are massive and SUV drivers like to pretend that blind spots don't exist.
captain_cynic said:
Also, SUV drivers are dangerous, I just had a Toerag almost back into my MR2 until I leant on the horn pretty hard. I'm not sure they would even have been able to see my car even if they used their rear vision mirror. Blind spots on SUVs are massive and SUV drivers like to pretend that blind spots don't exist.
Funnily enough, I saw a lovely Mk1 MR2 yesterday. Unfortunately it was running wide across the center line in the road while traveling towards me at speed. Managed to avoid him by going right into the gutter.I don’t think that makes all MR2 drivers dangerous though.....
sleepezy said:
unsprung said:
Sheepshanks said:
There's Atlas in the US.
here ya go:https://www.kbb.com/car-news/2018-volkswagen-atlas...
Brilliant thing but much more suited to the US and Canadian road networks than ours. Really liked it.
DoubleD said:
DonkeyApple said:
captain_cynic said:
People don't want SUVs, manufacturers want to sell SUVs.
Manufacturers prefer selling SUVs because they are more profitable. Take a hatch, add £700 of parts and ugly body kit then sell it for £3000 more. That's £2300 of pure profit. A bit of a simplification, but the principle is the same. People expect hatches to be cheap, SUVs on the other hand do not have this expectation.
No one actually wants an SUV, that is obvious by the language and excuses they use. No-one says they "want" an SUV, they claim they "need" an SUV in order to kart their one kid about. Then you get all the excuses about not being able to put a small dog into an estate when their SUV has less cabin space than an estate.
Also, SUV drivers are dangerous, I just had a Toerag almost back into my MR2 until I leant on the horn pretty hard. I'm not sure they would even have been able to see my car even if they used their rear vision mirror. Blind spots on SUVs are massive and SUV drivers like to pretend that blind spots don't exist.
So the best way to sell something no one wants is to charge more money than the thing that they do want? Righto. Manufacturers prefer selling SUVs because they are more profitable. Take a hatch, add £700 of parts and ugly body kit then sell it for £3000 more. That's £2300 of pure profit. A bit of a simplification, but the principle is the same. People expect hatches to be cheap, SUVs on the other hand do not have this expectation.
No one actually wants an SUV, that is obvious by the language and excuses they use. No-one says they "want" an SUV, they claim they "need" an SUV in order to kart their one kid about. Then you get all the excuses about not being able to put a small dog into an estate when their SUV has less cabin space than an estate.
Also, SUV drivers are dangerous, I just had a Toerag almost back into my MR2 until I leant on the horn pretty hard. I'm not sure they would even have been able to see my car even if they used their rear vision mirror. Blind spots on SUVs are massive and SUV drivers like to pretend that blind spots don't exist.
The numbers do support the idea consumers are mostly stupid sheep.
Fashion and stupidity = great margins.
Manufacturers would be stupid to not capitalise on fashion victims with cash to burn.
Yes there will be people who genuinely want them, but that’s why this segment of vehicles has always existed in some form or another for decades.
Ie, Rav 4 and Vitara type crap in the 90s.
Mr Whippy said:
DoubleD said:
DonkeyApple said:
captain_cynic said:
People don't want SUVs, manufacturers want to sell SUVs.
Manufacturers prefer selling SUVs because they are more profitable. Take a hatch, add £700 of parts and ugly body kit then sell it for £3000 more. That's £2300 of pure profit. A bit of a simplification, but the principle is the same. People expect hatches to be cheap, SUVs on the other hand do not have this expectation.
No one actually wants an SUV, that is obvious by the language and excuses they use. No-one says they "want" an SUV, they claim they "need" an SUV in order to kart their one kid about. Then you get all the excuses about not being able to put a small dog into an estate when their SUV has less cabin space than an estate.
Also, SUV drivers are dangerous, I just had a Toerag almost back into my MR2 until I leant on the horn pretty hard. I'm not sure they would even have been able to see my car even if they used their rear vision mirror. Blind spots on SUVs are massive and SUV drivers like to pretend that blind spots don't exist.
So the best way to sell something no one wants is to charge more money than the thing that they do want? Righto. Manufacturers prefer selling SUVs because they are more profitable. Take a hatch, add £700 of parts and ugly body kit then sell it for £3000 more. That's £2300 of pure profit. A bit of a simplification, but the principle is the same. People expect hatches to be cheap, SUVs on the other hand do not have this expectation.
No one actually wants an SUV, that is obvious by the language and excuses they use. No-one says they "want" an SUV, they claim they "need" an SUV in order to kart their one kid about. Then you get all the excuses about not being able to put a small dog into an estate when their SUV has less cabin space than an estate.
Also, SUV drivers are dangerous, I just had a Toerag almost back into my MR2 until I leant on the horn pretty hard. I'm not sure they would even have been able to see my car even if they used their rear vision mirror. Blind spots on SUVs are massive and SUV drivers like to pretend that blind spots don't exist.
The numbers do support the idea consumers are mostly stupid sheep.
Fashion and stupidity = great margins.
Manufacturers would be stupid to not capitalise on fashion victims with cash to burn.
Yes there will be people who genuinely want them, but that’s why this segment of vehicles has always existed in some form or another for decades.
Ie, Rav 4 and Vitara type crap in the 90s.
DoubleD said:
Different people have different needs, for some, a SUV is more practical.
I lug about things like chests of drawers and tallish items, that I wouldn't have the height for inside an estate, which makes my SUV more practical than an estate or hatchback.I've owned Saloons, hatchbacks, estates & SUV's and (for me) that would be the order of practicality.
Edited by techguyone on Sunday 18th August 22:11
DoubleD said:
Mr Whippy said:
DoubleD said:
DonkeyApple said:
captain_cynic said:
People don't want SUVs, manufacturers want to sell SUVs.
Manufacturers prefer selling SUVs because they are more profitable. Take a hatch, add £700 of parts and ugly body kit then sell it for £3000 more. That's £2300 of pure profit. A bit of a simplification, but the principle is the same. People expect hatches to be cheap, SUVs on the other hand do not have this expectation.
No one actually wants an SUV, that is obvious by the language and excuses they use. No-one says they "want" an SUV, they claim they "need" an SUV in order to kart their one kid about. Then you get all the excuses about not being able to put a small dog into an estate when their SUV has less cabin space than an estate.
Also, SUV drivers are dangerous, I just had a Toerag almost back into my MR2 until I leant on the horn pretty hard. I'm not sure they would even have been able to see my car even if they used their rear vision mirror. Blind spots on SUVs are massive and SUV drivers like to pretend that blind spots don't exist.
So the best way to sell something no one wants is to charge more money than the thing that they do want? Righto. Manufacturers prefer selling SUVs because they are more profitable. Take a hatch, add £700 of parts and ugly body kit then sell it for £3000 more. That's £2300 of pure profit. A bit of a simplification, but the principle is the same. People expect hatches to be cheap, SUVs on the other hand do not have this expectation.
No one actually wants an SUV, that is obvious by the language and excuses they use. No-one says they "want" an SUV, they claim they "need" an SUV in order to kart their one kid about. Then you get all the excuses about not being able to put a small dog into an estate when their SUV has less cabin space than an estate.
Also, SUV drivers are dangerous, I just had a Toerag almost back into my MR2 until I leant on the horn pretty hard. I'm not sure they would even have been able to see my car even if they used their rear vision mirror. Blind spots on SUVs are massive and SUV drivers like to pretend that blind spots don't exist.
The numbers do support the idea consumers are mostly stupid sheep.
Fashion and stupidity = great margins.
Manufacturers would be stupid to not capitalise on fashion victims with cash to burn.
Yes there will be people who genuinely want them, but that’s why this segment of vehicles has always existed in some form or another for decades.
Ie, Rav 4 and Vitara type crap in the 90s.
I like to imagine when it comes to retail fashion sheepishness, no. Especially not when it comes to cars.
Mr Whippy said:
DoubleD said:
Mr Whippy said:
DoubleD said:
DonkeyApple said:
captain_cynic said:
People don't want SUVs, manufacturers want to sell SUVs.
Manufacturers prefer selling SUVs because they are more profitable. Take a hatch, add £700 of parts and ugly body kit then sell it for £3000 more. That's £2300 of pure profit. A bit of a simplification, but the principle is the same. People expect hatches to be cheap, SUVs on the other hand do not have this expectation.
No one actually wants an SUV, that is obvious by the language and excuses they use. No-one says they "want" an SUV, they claim they "need" an SUV in order to kart their one kid about. Then you get all the excuses about not being able to put a small dog into an estate when their SUV has less cabin space than an estate.
Also, SUV drivers are dangerous, I just had a Toerag almost back into my MR2 until I leant on the horn pretty hard. I'm not sure they would even have been able to see my car even if they used their rear vision mirror. Blind spots on SUVs are massive and SUV drivers like to pretend that blind spots don't exist.
So the best way to sell something no one wants is to charge more money than the thing that they do want? Righto. Manufacturers prefer selling SUVs because they are more profitable. Take a hatch, add £700 of parts and ugly body kit then sell it for £3000 more. That's £2300 of pure profit. A bit of a simplification, but the principle is the same. People expect hatches to be cheap, SUVs on the other hand do not have this expectation.
No one actually wants an SUV, that is obvious by the language and excuses they use. No-one says they "want" an SUV, they claim they "need" an SUV in order to kart their one kid about. Then you get all the excuses about not being able to put a small dog into an estate when their SUV has less cabin space than an estate.
Also, SUV drivers are dangerous, I just had a Toerag almost back into my MR2 until I leant on the horn pretty hard. I'm not sure they would even have been able to see my car even if they used their rear vision mirror. Blind spots on SUVs are massive and SUV drivers like to pretend that blind spots don't exist.
The numbers do support the idea consumers are mostly stupid sheep.
Fashion and stupidity = great margins.
Manufacturers would be stupid to not capitalise on fashion victims with cash to burn.
Yes there will be people who genuinely want them, but that’s why this segment of vehicles has always existed in some form or another for decades.
Ie, Rav 4 and Vitara type crap in the 90s.
I like to imagine when it comes to retail fashion sheepishness, no. Especially not when it comes to cars.
DonkeyApple said:
The 30+ year evolution of ever larger and heavier cars is only going to stop if weight becomes a primary taxation point. The weight gain has been accelerated in recent years as the quick solution to meeting lower emission targets has been to add weight and this is only going to continue as more ICE pack in hybrid tech to fudge taxation or enormous battery packs to try and fudge the inconvenience of pure EVs.
Surely weight is indirectly taxed because it decreases mpg and so you pay more tax through fuel costs. Similarly the increased frontal area and poor aerodynamics beneath an SUV also decrease mpg. As mpg and £/month seem to be the main purchasing criteria these days I'm surprised that SUVs are so popular.DoubleD said:
Mr Whippy said:
DoubleD said:
Mr Whippy said:
DoubleD said:
DonkeyApple said:
captain_cynic said:
People don't want SUVs, manufacturers want to sell SUVs.
Manufacturers prefer selling SUVs because they are more profitable. Take a hatch, add £700 of parts and ugly body kit then sell it for £3000 more. That's £2300 of pure profit. A bit of a simplification, but the principle is the same. People expect hatches to be cheap, SUVs on the other hand do not have this expectation.
No one actually wants an SUV, that is obvious by the language and excuses they use. No-one says they "want" an SUV, they claim they "need" an SUV in order to kart their one kid about. Then you get all the excuses about not being able to put a small dog into an estate when their SUV has less cabin space than an estate.
Also, SUV drivers are dangerous, I just had a Toerag almost back into my MR2 until I leant on the horn pretty hard. I'm not sure they would even have been able to see my car even if they used their rear vision mirror. Blind spots on SUVs are massive and SUV drivers like to pretend that blind spots don't exist.
So the best way to sell something no one wants is to charge more money than the thing that they do want? Righto. Manufacturers prefer selling SUVs because they are more profitable. Take a hatch, add £700 of parts and ugly body kit then sell it for £3000 more. That's £2300 of pure profit. A bit of a simplification, but the principle is the same. People expect hatches to be cheap, SUVs on the other hand do not have this expectation.
No one actually wants an SUV, that is obvious by the language and excuses they use. No-one says they "want" an SUV, they claim they "need" an SUV in order to kart their one kid about. Then you get all the excuses about not being able to put a small dog into an estate when their SUV has less cabin space than an estate.
Also, SUV drivers are dangerous, I just had a Toerag almost back into my MR2 until I leant on the horn pretty hard. I'm not sure they would even have been able to see my car even if they used their rear vision mirror. Blind spots on SUVs are massive and SUV drivers like to pretend that blind spots don't exist.
The numbers do support the idea consumers are mostly stupid sheep.
Fashion and stupidity = great margins.
Manufacturers would be stupid to not capitalise on fashion victims with cash to burn.
Yes there will be people who genuinely want them, but that’s why this segment of vehicles has always existed in some form or another for decades.
Ie, Rav 4 and Vitara type crap in the 90s.
I like to imagine when it comes to retail fashion sheepishness, no. Especially not when it comes to cars.
Accept it.
If you have one because you need it, then good for you.
If you have one because you need to be fashionable, then good for you.
But please accept that I don’t see a trendy person, I see an insecure sheep buying a high margin piece of s
t... which is what almost all these cars are.Mr Whippy said:
Most people buy these for fashion now. And manufacturers love the fashion margin.
Accept it.
If you have one because you need it, then good for you.
If you have one because you need to be fashionable, then good for you.
But please accept that I don’t see a trendy person, I see an insecure sheep buying a high margin piece of st... which is what almost all these cars are.
I dont own or want an suv, i just find the negative comments funny. Why is it suv drivers are asked to justify a purchase? But if you have something like a hatchback, which are just as common you arent told you need to justify them?Accept it.
If you have one because you need it, then good for you.
If you have one because you need to be fashionable, then good for you.
But please accept that I don’t see a trendy person, I see an insecure sheep buying a high margin piece of s
t... which is what almost all these cars are.Insecure people are the ones who worry about what others think and do, now I wonder who that might be......
DoubleD said:
Mr Whippy said:
Most people buy these for fashion now. And manufacturers love the fashion margin.
Accept it.
If you have one because you need it, then good for you.
If you have one because you need to be fashionable, then good for you.
But please accept that I don’t see a trendy person, I see an insecure sheep buying a high margin piece of st... which is what almost all these cars are.
I dont own or want an suv, i just find the negative comments funny. Why is it suv drivers are asked to justify a purchase? But if you have something like a hatchback, which are just as common you arent told you need to justify them?Accept it.
If you have one because you need it, then good for you.
If you have one because you need to be fashionable, then good for you.
But please accept that I don’t see a trendy person, I see an insecure sheep buying a high margin piece of s
t... which is what almost all these cars are.Insecure people are the ones who worry about what others think and do, now I wonder who that might be......
But if some suv owners believe others look at them in their ‘premium’ hatchback (suv) in admiration, they may be mistaken.
People go buy brand new cars, then sell them a few years later from half the money.
I think they’re daft, but then I get cheap nearly new cars.
You can observe something you believe is stupid, but be happy enough to observe it and let it happen.
Thanks for letting me share my thoughts.
Mr Whippy said:
DoubleD said:
Mr Whippy said:
Most people buy these for fashion now. And manufacturers love the fashion margin.
Accept it.
If you have one because you need it, then good for you.
If you have one because you need to be fashionable, then good for you.
But please accept that I don’t see a trendy person, I see an insecure sheep buying a high margin piece of st... which is what almost all these cars are.
I dont own or want an suv, i just find the negative comments funny. Why is it suv drivers are asked to justify a purchase? But if you have something like a hatchback, which are just as common you arent told you need to justify them?Accept it.
If you have one because you need it, then good for you.
If you have one because you need to be fashionable, then good for you.
But please accept that I don’t see a trendy person, I see an insecure sheep buying a high margin piece of s
t... which is what almost all these cars are.Insecure people are the ones who worry about what others think and do, now I wonder who that might be......
But if some suv owners believe others look at them in their ‘premium’ hatchback (suv) in admiration, they may be mistaken.
People go buy brand new cars, then sell them a few years later from half the money.
I think they’re daft, but then I get cheap nearly new cars.
You can observe something you believe is stupid, but be happy enough to observe it and let it happen.
Thanks for letting me share my thoughts.
speedking31 said:
DonkeyApple said:
The 30+ year evolution of ever larger and heavier cars is only going to stop if weight becomes a primary taxation point. The weight gain has been accelerated in recent years as the quick solution to meeting lower emission targets has been to add weight and this is only going to continue as more ICE pack in hybrid tech to fudge taxation or enormous battery packs to try and fudge the inconvenience of pure EVs.
Surely weight is indirectly taxed because it decreases mpg and so you pay more tax through fuel costs. Similarly the increased frontal area and poor aerodynamics beneath an SUV also decrease mpg. As mpg and £/month seem to be the main purchasing criteria these days I'm surprised that SUVs are so popular.MPG is an indirect form of taxing weight but what the market shows is that this isn’t a strong driver innactual car choice. Tax weight directly and you’d achieve an immediate change in not just current buying habits but the future design of cars with the ultimate achievement of dropping emissions, costs and wider pollution dramatically.
Given that EV penetration can only go so far and as well as usage limitations there are material supply limitations along with looming pollitical pressures then at some point in the near future there will need to be a change from the govt sanctioned mantra of ‘ICE bad. EV good’ and the only logical step is to change the policy to ‘heavy bad. Light good.’
spookly said:
People should just buy what they want.
But.... claiming modern SUVs and CUVs are more practical is rubbish. Very few have any more load space or passenger space than their hatchback/estate equivalents, and quite a few have less space.
They are far more practical than estates IME. And that's only one of the advantages. There are no downsides for my use of them, they look silly but I don't care. I have no issues with someone preferring an estate for their needs/use, as I tend to be open minded. But.... claiming modern SUVs and CUVs are more practical is rubbish. Very few have any more load space or passenger space than their hatchback/estate equivalents, and quite a few have less space.
Sheepshanks said:
I might be due a whoosh parrot here, but what's so astonishing about it?
Perhaps I could have explained myself better. What I meant to get across is that I did not immediately expect that VW, who are celebrated for their Golf and similar-sized vehicles, would design and build a large-ish SUV. (it's actually classified in the US as a mid-sized SUV, so not among the very largest)Obviously, VW did the research and ran the numbers and realised that their brand could stretch to this vehicle and do so profitably. It's made in Tennessee (at least: the one sold in the US is made there).
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