RE: Where is Europe's Corvette? PH Footnote

RE: Where is Europe's Corvette? PH Footnote

Sunday 18th August 2019

Where is Europe's Corvette? PH Footnote

The new V8-powered Stingray costs about the same as an entry-level Alpine A110. No fair



If you happen to live to the west of the Atlantic Ocean, your £49,500 (or $59,995) sports car budget will run to a 2020 mid-engined Chevrolet Corvette Stingray with a 194mph top speed, a 6.2-litre V8 and a wholesome 495hp. For those of us who live to the east of the Atlantic, that same budget will afford not much more than a very basic Alpine A110 Pure with a sports exhaust. You're looking at 155mph, 1.8-litres, four cylinders and half the power. Though it is also mid-engined.

It's hard not to feel a little put out by that. Why is it that for the same money a North American buyer can leave the forecourt in a thundering eight-cylinder brute that wouldn't be out of place at a supercar gathering, while those of us in Europe must make do with a dainty little sports car that looks like something a Corvette would get stuck between its teeth? Well, economies of scale for one thing. And component sharing. Chevrolet has always built and sold the Corvette in such vast numbers it can be manufactured to a cost, while its small block V8 is shared with countless other models and gets pumped out of the factory like Skittles.


Of course, when the C8 Corvette does arrive in the UK - which it will, in right-hand drive - the base model will cost more like £75,000 after duties, taxes and the rest have been applied. And the $59,995 entry-level 1LT Corvette will be an airport rental special that most private buyers will avoid like the plague, upgrading instead to the $67,295 2LT or the $71,945 3LT.

Nonetheless, the fact remains: you get a great deal more T-bone for your money in the US than you do over here. So where are Europe's bargain basement performance cars? How can it be that nothing on sale over here gets even close to matching the C8 Corvette in the US in terms of value for money? I can think of only one performance car that might exist in the same ballpark and that - tellingly - is the £42,810 Ford Mustang GT V8.

I'm beginning to think there might be space for a European performance car manufacturer that gears itself - and I mean everything about itself, from R+D expenditure, manufacturing process, dealer network, parts sharing, low cost componentry (where it can get away with it) and whatever else - around affordability. If value for money was its USP. The Dacia methodology applied to the sports car sector. And what if that performance car manufacturer was a new-look Lotus under the stewardship of Geely?


The size of the European sports car market relative to that in North America probably means no Lotus will ever match the C8 Corvette on bang-for-buck. But between the eye-widening affordability of an American sports car and the eye-watering cost of a European one, there must surely be a financially viable middle ground that Lotus could exploit. I'm thinking of a new Elise at less than £35,000, or a new V8 Esprit at around £60,000. Neither cheap as chips, but both decent value for money compared to the rest of the continental sports car market.

Would it even be possible to create a desirable and capable new Lotus, one that's also respectful of the company's heritage, under such tight fiscal constraints? Maybe not. If Lotus can't realistically position itself as the European value-for-money sports car brand, perhaps we'll just have to move to the other side of the Atlantic. Or wait for someone else to see the light.


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Author
Discussion

MikeGalos

Original Poster:

261 posts

284 months

Sunday 18th August 2019
quotequote all
It should be easy when you add on the other factors in pricing of the Corvette in the UK such as mandatory longer warrantees and the tariff on US produced cars. Then there's the cost of localization that has to be amortized over a much smaller market including things like documents and spare parts inventory.

Given those extra costs, a US made car should be non-competitive and priced out of the market. Yet, it isn't. Seems there's an opportunity that some vendor in the UK or at least the EU ought to be able to capitalize on.

rodericb

6,708 posts

126 months

Sunday 18th August 2019
quotequote all
If Lotus did make that new Esprit and plonked the Toyota 2UR-GSE V8 into it (as per the Lexus LC500) how close could they get it to the Corvette pricing? Offset the increased cost of the engine and the transmission with possibly lower overheads and more generic parts in the Lotus and the obvious "shortcuts" which the Lotus would (should?) come with - off the shelf bits like the entertainment/satnav system.

Electro1980

8,286 posts

139 months

Sunday 18th August 2019
quotequote all
I think it is always rather unfair to compare US to UK prices when our prices include VAT and US prices are before sales tax, which is then added after at whatever the local rate is. And, yes, sales tax is lower, but when comparing how good value, or not, a car between countries local taxes should be removed.

Edited by Electro1980 on Sunday 18th August 06:46

rodericb

6,708 posts

126 months

Sunday 18th August 2019
quotequote all
Electro1980 said:
I think it is always rather unfair to compare US to UK prices when our prices include VAT and US prices are before sales tax, which is then added after at whatever the local rate is.
Maybe do the comparo in the US: https://www.autoblog.com/2019/07/22/2020-chevy-cor...

ReaperCushions

6,001 posts

184 months

Sunday 18th August 2019
quotequote all
You mentioned in the article why it doesn’t work... economies of scale. End of.

JohnGoodridge

529 posts

195 months

Sunday 18th August 2019
quotequote all
The Nissan GT-R was the last giant killer I can remember. Price hikes finished that a while ago though.

Maybe the new Corvette will be Europe’s new Corvette as the article says. Even if it does come in at 75k it will still cost a big chunk less than the benchmark 911.

Venisonpie

3,258 posts

82 months

Sunday 18th August 2019
quotequote all
"No Fair?"

Who are you aiming at with language like that?

Thankyou4calling

10,601 posts

173 months

Sunday 18th August 2019
quotequote all
If it could be done and there was sufficient demand a manufacturer would’ve done it.

I’d say it’s that simple.

The market wants SUVs not two seater sports cars.

CedricN

820 posts

145 months

Sunday 18th August 2019
quotequote all
The alpine would be really good value aswell if it could be bought without taxes, destination charges etc

As other have stated, the scale is very significant here. Developing costs nowdays are so high its not really possible to combine cheap and low volume. Porsche have some pretty large production numbers, but they are interested in maximising profit, hence they charge what they can out of each car.

Klippie

3,120 posts

145 months

Sunday 18th August 2019
quotequote all
How much does the Alpine cost in the US.

I like the new Corvette imagine the first meeting when the engineers say “we want to make our new car mid engined” the reaction must have been amazing...good on them for doing it.

ghost83

5,477 posts

190 months

Sunday 18th August 2019
quotequote all
Noble did it with their cars once

I’d love to see another noble around 40-60k with a stonking v8 (rather than the 3 litre)

w0o0dy

20 posts

148 months

Sunday 18th August 2019
quotequote all
It's been tried... Artega was just that (although V6). Shared engines with VW, lots of parts shared /bought but it never took off. It would need a big manufacturer that would want to do a sub brand. BMW? Toyota? Hey guess what? They did the Supra/Z4 roadster together.. get that and get used to the synthetic sounding BMW inline 3.0 instead. At least it drives like a Corvette and is not that much slower.

sidewinder500

1,137 posts

94 months

Sunday 18th August 2019
quotequote all
Thankyou4calling said:
If it could be done and there was sufficient demand a manufacturer would’ve done it.

I’d say it’s that simple.

The market wants SUVs not two seater sports cars.
This ^^^^^

Aston is doing the sharing with AMG components, starting with the engine and gearbox, even using their satnav, steering wheel shroud with levers included etc etc, just like the old days, when they raided the Ford parts bin...
But only for a price, as they are both upmarket.
Nobody seems to care for the little dingy cheap sports car, the need for bigger everything is greater.
As you are buying today's 914 (it is called boxster...) it is crammed with tech, which is not cheap anymore, you have to offer decent crash resistance, and the buyer wants leather, satnav, big wheels, sports this and special edition that. All loaded to the gunwales. And not enough buying public to rectify for the "cheaper" brands.
As in today's engineering the firewall is the core platform starting point, you can share that throughout your whole range, hatch to SUV, as you have to engineer your sportscar thing as your own platform, cost is the main concern.
And you have to succeed, otherwise you binned your cash, and that would be no good idea.
How GM does it, well, look at the interior without fully optioned and you get the idea ( which you won't, because it doesn't).


jwwbowe

576 posts

172 months

Sunday 18th August 2019
quotequote all
Romantic idea, can’t see it happening for a European manufacturer. Even if Lotus or another brand did try that route, it would take all of five seconds for the big publication plastic quality inspectors that call themselves motor journalists to knock it for not having a interior as good as a Audi or a engine and drivetrain from something industrial, the very things that would make it able to sell in that price point. You could almost pre script the reviews now and reviews bring people or discourage people from going to showrooms.

Exige77

6,518 posts

191 months

Sunday 18th August 2019
quotequote all
GM are using the Corvette as a halo model and will probably lose money on it.

They are using many common parts and have an already established distribution network.

There’s no way a small start up could compete with this and survive. Many have tried.

The headline price figure that keeps being trotted out is without local taxes and is the base model. The performance figures quoted are always with performance pack (not sure name)

Not sure anybody will buy this without ticking any boxes.

It will still be great value for money but not as cheap as it first appears.

Looking forward to the European back to back tests to see how good it really is.



Mike335i

5,002 posts

102 months

Sunday 18th August 2019
quotequote all
Is marketing not a crucial aspect in this? Might be over generalising, but Americans appear to like and respect 'working man's' or 'blue collar' brands, hence the popularity of Toyota, Hyundai, Ford and GM products across the nation. A homegrown, bargain super car made by a "good 'ol 'Murican" brand appeals to enough people in a vast nation to make it viable.

European tastes appear more for 'premium' cars, so more Lexus than Toyota, VW rather than Vauxhall. So does the market even want a cheaper supercar? On PH we do, but those affected more by the marketing might just be out off by the 'value' of a brand. Strangely, a more expensive price point might actually appeal more, especially as most cars in Europe are extremely similar.

Which brings me to my second point: fuel cost. As we we know from BMW & Toyota, as well as Subaru & Toyota, building any new smaller volume needs a big enough market and small enough costs to even get off the drawing board. With that in mind, is there a big enough market for a big thirsty super car in Europe, to enable enough volume to bring it at low enough price point? Or should we just have more slightly raised FWD hatchbacks with 3 or 4 cylinder engines that can be marketed easily and sold cheaply enough to keep a brand alive?

So, my theory is that supercars remain for the rich who will pay more than US Corvette money.

If only we drove on the right like everyone else, we could then just reap the rewards of other markets and import more US cars...

unsprung

5,467 posts

124 months

Sunday 18th August 2019
quotequote all


No post above has provided the correct answer.

(although two or three comments are very close)

The answer is not about comparisons of tax that are somehow "unfair". It's not about market size (the EU market has many more households than the US). It's not about SUVs (two-thirds of the US market is SUVs and light trucks). It's not about development costs. It's not about interior aesthetics. It's not about journalists.


Jellinek

274 posts

275 months

Sunday 18th August 2019
quotequote all
I don’t believe Lotus has any intention of delivering a “value for money” sports car line-up under its new management. The Evija’s purpose is to push the marque up-market and the Evora (which is sub-Esprit) is already priced significantly higher than the author’s 60k figure.
Once again Lotus is posturing to becoming a premium brand, to challenge Porsche. It has been attempted before by Gales, Bahar, Kimberley and indeed Chapman himself. Let’s hope this time the lessons learned from those failed attempts will enable it to build a solid product and customer service foundation instead of blowing its latest finite investment on vanity projects and cockamamie marketing folly.

Donbot

3,918 posts

127 months

Sunday 18th August 2019
quotequote all
unsprung said:
No post above has provided the correct answer.

(although two or three comments are very close)

The answer is not about comparisons of tax that are somehow "unfair". It's not about market size (the EU market has many more households than the US). It's not about SUVs (two-thirds of the US market is SUVs and light trucks). It's not about development costs. It's not about interior aesthetics. It's not about journalists.
Go on and tell us oh wise one . . .

Cold

15,236 posts

90 months

Sunday 18th August 2019
quotequote all
Lotus did make a £60K Esprit, but it was back in 1996 and no one bought it.