RE: Where is Europe's Corvette? PH Footnote

[Gecko1978]

I am not sure what the average income is in the US but in the UK its £27k meaning the average person is way off looking for a £75k car, I suspect in the US the average person can afford a base Camero or Mustang if they wish (with PCP etc) so it provides a gate way to corvette ownership. A new mustang in the UK is closer to £45k plus huge tax bill for first 5 years and with a averge income of £27k most people in the UK are not thinking Fiesta RS to Mustang etc as a next car so a £75k corvette is a non starter. Plus its more than an M3, Cayman, Alpine or C63 so again people choose the safe option.

If it were £60k I could see a few more sales but not a huge amount

[Exige77]

Running costs also.

V8s are a tad thirsty and the juice costs a lot more here as do the consumables and servicing costs.

[dunnoreally]

Actually, if we're just talking pure performance, a TT RS makes 400bhp for £54k or so, so isn't too far off.

Of course, it doesn't look as flashy, the drivetrain isn't as evocative and I'd imagine the Vette is vastly more fun in terms of handling, steering feedback etc. Still food for thought, though.

[T1berious]

I followed the C8's launch and couldn't even find a competitor at the price points of the LS1 package car in Europe.

As stated that sub 60k USD was minus taxes etc, delivery etc for a base spec car.

For reference the closest we have in the mid engined market would be the Cayman S or Lotus Exige 380. Not Cheap cars by any stretch and we all know no Porsche leaves without 7 - 10k worth of resale extras.

However, I just don't see a volume manufacturer jumping onto it. The usual suspects have long ago carved out their niches and are dumping more and more of their R&D budgets into Electric \ Hybrid cars.

I'd bet an electric Cayman would be along way before anyone even stopped to look at the C8 as a competitor in the European market (which I don't think it is).

As a halo product in the U.S., it makes sense all day long. Ample dealer support etc.

Here? BMW modifying the i8 platform? nope. Merc don't have a Mid engined platform and the Audi R8 (if the rumour mill is right) will be going twin turbo 6 as an entry version. None of these would be near a 75k price point. Lordy just look at what they are charging for the 840D!

[ducnick]

Exige77 said:

Running costs also.

V8s are a tad thirsty and the juice costs a lot more here as do the consumables and servicing costs.

I beg to disagree. Slightly.
My V8 mustang costs peanuts to service compared with a bmw m2/3/4, Audi TT etc.
It does 27mpg on a run and has averaged 22mpg over the last 11k miles since new. I suspect a German sports coupe given similar driving wouldn’t be vastly different. When something wears out I can buy it cheap from a ford dealer or from a massive aftermarket scene.... not possible with many of its competitors. Stick the same engine in a small light sports car and the economy can only increase to the point where a vette with a lazy V8 will match a highly strung turbo 6 in a Euro equivalent for economy. I find the corvette c7 grand sport a very attractive proposition right now being the last front engined one. Sadly lhd puts me off. Not a problem solo, but not nice with a passenger when their head obscures junctions. This is why the c8 makes a great case for itself as it can serve the rhd market at almost no extra cost

[otolith]

Why on earth would Lotus want to do it? These are pile ‘em high and sell ‘em cheap cars from a mass manufacturer, exactly the opposite of what Lotus should be doing.

VW should do it, get Porsche to churn them out and sell them as Seats.

[Cloudy147]

I think some of the big Euro manufacturers could do it, but they don't want to.

When looking at the costs of the new Corvette, just why is the Audi R8 soooo expensive? Well... because they have a TT model line up to sell. So you get that instead.

Why is the BMW i8 so expensive? Because they have an Z4 to sell. And a Supra.

I think the Audi is perhaps the best case for a cheap supercar, but they'll never do that. I bet they could though.

I suspect this really shines the spotlight on McLaren in the US. With their oft-told YouTube reliability woes and well known steep depreciation curve, they must surely be worried about future sales in the US Market now. Same for the Honda NSX.

[Poppiecock]

Cloudy147 said:

Why is the BMW i8 so expensive? Because they have an Z4 to sell. And a Supra.

That's over-simplifying things just a little, as you'd know if you'd looked at one up close and driven one. They're a carbon fibre tub, so you can see why they cost so much.

[markclow]

American cars are surprisingly good on gas.

I had a 2016 Camaro ss 8 speed and it averaged 22 us mpg.

I then got a 2014 gtr which averages about 17 us mpg.

this car will be even better on gas as its light.

The only worry for me is reliability. A lot of new components and gm often has problems.

[Helicopter123]

unsprung said:

Earlier in this thread, somebody commented that if a value-for-money performance car would be viable in Europe, an OEM would already have offered this.

Just how many Cayman + Boxster have Porsche sold in the last 20 years?

The market exists!!

[JxJ Jr.]

Cloudy147 said:

I think some of the big Euro manufacturers could do it, but they don't want to.

Exactly, different approaches. European manufacturers tend to sell the same product in the 2 if not all 3 major car markets, US manufacturers tend to focus their US product on the US market. A Z4 or M3 has to appeal sufficiently to both a German and an American. A 3-series has to appeal to them and a Chinese person. A Corvette just has to appeal to an American. Also worth noting that GM is the only major manufacturer to have gone bankrupt in recent years and the only major manufacturer to have curbed it's global ambitions and exited one of the 3 major markets (i.e. Europe), so while it's turnaround has been impressive, it's perhaps not quite a masterclass in how to do things quite yet.

[borat52]

I think we already have these cars in Europe it’s just the European manufacturers have such a stranglehold on people’s emotions that people are convinced it’s worth parting with far more money than they cost to make.

How many 911’s are are sold each year? 25,000
How much profit does Porsche make per car? £15,000 and that’s including boxsters, caymans, and panameras and suvs’s I bet 911,s are £20+k a peice.

Take vat off and then£15-20k off a 911 and you have corvette prices.

[unsprung]

somewhat provocatively...

asking the question, "Where is Europe's Corvette?" raises issues that are almost identical to those which surround the following additional questions:

-- Where is Europe's customer service?

-- Where is Europe's tort law?

-- Where is Europe's Hollywood?

[I 8 a 4RE]

If I may add...

Where is Europe’s Challenger?

Where is Europe’s Mustang? (Apart from the Mustang)

Where’s Europe’s full size SUV? (Suburban like, don’t give me Q7, X7, GLS ... FULL FAT!)

Where’s Europe’s luxury pick up? (F150 like, even X class is agricultural in comparison..)

[Jaroon]

I'm moving towards a R8 V10 purchsed in the next 18 months (2014 S tronic) This Corvette annoys the hell out of me. I would prefer it, I am it's market, I've been emailing today and looking the feasibility and time frames of getting one on the time scale of my R8 purchase. Who knows, the maddness that is Brexit might actual bear some meagre silver linings. At cira £75 with a few boxes ticked, I am very tempted Plan C of a 997.2 PKD is again annoyng how well they hold their money for a car that's getting on. Watching this space.

[unsprung]

JxJ Jr. said:

Also worth noting that GM is the only major manufacturer to have gone bankrupt to the moon

FTFY

[JxJ Jr.]

unsprung said:

FTFY

Ok, I give you that, But then that's a different age and things happened that would be unthinkable today - like Chrysler having a missile division or Daimler involved in making helicopters.

[unsprung]

JxJ Jr. said:

unsprung said:

FTFY

Ok, I give you that, But then that's a different age and things happened that would be unthinkable today - like Chrysler having a missile division or Daimler involved in making helicopters.

Right. I'm just pulling your leg, mate.

[anonymous-user]

If they’d got Brexit done and signed a US trade deal rather than wasting time living in a land of remoaner denial for three years we’d have this now for £49k. When that inevitably happens they’ll be selling even fewer Alpines at £50k. Roll on the 51st State !

[Poppiecock]

Schmed said:

If they’d got Brexit done and signed a US trade deal rather than wasting time living in a land of remoaner denial for three years we’d have this now for £49k. When that inevitably happens they’ll be selling even fewer Alpines at £50k. Roll on the 51st State !

I know this isn't the place - but you want to get out of the EU and form a similar partnership with the USA?

You are certifiably insane.