RE: Land Rover Defender | Frankfurt 2019

[Pesty]

Even without those it will go most anywhere in the UK.

We don’t live in Arizona

Unless you want to go to man made 4x4 courses it will go anywhere no?.

People keep talking about articulation. When was the last time you crawled over a big rock?

I actually do use mine for minor off road. Fields, the odd green lane.

Mud is my major obstacle and tyres and ground are most effective there it seems to this novice.

So where won’t this landy go and how many people would go those places anyway.

[Slow]

Just this week I went round our old 4x4 course, in a L322 Range Rover on 20s towing a 1.5 ton plant trailer to get 12 earthmover tyres out the woods for a new purpose.

Didn’t get stuck or break anything and that was a much more extreme off-roading use than most people will ever see.

You don’t need anything extreme for 99.99999% of stuff in the uk, it’s mostly just mud and stones.

I really like this new defender having owned a old 84 on big tyres etc which was truly awful. Owned it for under 3 months I feel sorry for anyone who daily drives one.

[Crumpet]

Ed T said:

Spec...

I’ve been playing with configuration a lot....if I spec the SE with the accessories I like it’s £62k..punchy.

I’ve now started with the S P300 and added kit and got to £56k which is really quite nice

The problem with that kind of pricing (and the lack of any discount on the new Defender) is that you’re actually up into the price range of a top spec Disco once you factor in a discount.

You can get an HSE Lux with all the trimmings for around £60k, although the residual value on the Disco will be a lot worse and you’ve still got to live with the questionable rear-end!

[DonkeyApple]

When you wander around the provinces and see the average couple out and about then the one thing you start to come to terms with is that most blokes clearly don’t have an issue with questionable rear ends.

[Ed T]

Crumpet said:

The problem with that kind of pricing (and the lack of any discount on the new Defender) is that you’re actually up into the price range of a top spec Disco once you factor in a discount.

You can get an HSE Lux with all the trimmings for around £60k, although the residual value on the Disco will be a lot worse and you’ve still got to live with the questionable rear-end!

Really - discounts that good? I just specced up a Disco HSE Lux and it was £75k - Id be surprised if they were giving 20% off? I think they should - they’d shift more

[Ed T]

Clivey said:

What would you be using it for? Personally, I wouldn’t order one without all the off-road bits (active locking diff etc.)...but then I wouldn’t buy a 4x4 at all if I didn’t plan on taking it off road. ??

School run, driving the dog somewhere for a walk, rugby tots, Waitrose shop mainly

[Pesty]

Ed T said:

School run, driving the dog somewhere for a walk, rugby tots, Waitrose shop mainly

Burn him he won’t be using it for MOAB the heathen.

He won’t even use that “poor articulation”

I just don’t know how I manage with no no electronic diff in the shogun.

The 2k eBay terracan drove over everything I aimed it at because I didn’t care. It didn’t either wish I’d never sold it.

[aaron_2000]

Pesty said:

Ed T said:

School run, driving the dog somewhere for a walk, rugby tots, Waitrose shop mainly

Burn him he won’t be using it for MOAB the heathen.

He won’t even use that “poor articulation”

I just don’t know how I manage with no no electronic diff in the shogun.

The 2k eBay terracan drove over everything I aimed it at because I didn’t care. It didn’t either wish I’d never sold it.

I remember my uncle had one new as a company car. It was just like a go kart, he could slide it around with ease and it just didn't care. Brilliant cars.

[Crumpet]

Ed T said:

Really - discounts that good? I just specced up a Disco HSE Lux and it was £75k - Id be surprised if they were giving 20% off? I think they should - they’d shift more

20% might be a bit optimistic! But I’ve just picked mine up with £9k off on a £71k list (Petrol HSE Lux with about £3k of extras). The petrol engine is actually very, very good, as long as you turn a blind eye to the mpg!

[InitialDave]

Pesty said:

The 2k eBay terracan drove over everything I aimed it at because I didn’t care. It didn’t either wish I’d never sold it.

Are those the ones that are really a 90s Shogun underneath? They're supposed to be quite good.

[Pesty]

InitialDave said:

Pesty said:

The 2k eBay terracan drove over everything I aimed it at because I didn’t care. It didn’t either wish I’d never sold it.

Are those the ones that are really a 90s Shogun underneath? They're supposed to be quite good.

Not sure. I think the engine was a merc diesel. I looked under it once seemed to be made from RSJs

I see lots in Spain and Europe hardly sold in the UK nobody really knows what they are so they are cheap. Thing was unstoppable. I’d look for stuff just too see if it would drive over it when out in the country. It always did.
Note I know nothing about off roading just spend a lot of time in the middle of nowhere.
Also drove it up some trails in the Pyrenees and other Spanish mountains, the “roads” had been washed out in places leaving fairly large rough holes. It made it through no issue. One route I take has a warning sign 4x4 only most people left theirs half way up. Terracan got to the top.

I’m sure this land rover is far more capable than that. Terracan was basic can’t even remember if you could lock the diffs.

It’s always the same on these land rover threads, look at the last run of the old shape, people moaning because they’d made the steering a bit better which according to them would mean it wouldn’t go off road.

I’m not sure any of the moaners on here actually do what they claim to do and even if so wouldn’t buy a new land rover to do it anyway.

We also have guys in here that off-road in their brand new range rovers and they manage.

I’d still like to know where in the UK this 4x4 won’t go

Edited by Pesty on Saturday 21st September 07:57

[100SRV]

Pesty said:

We also have guys in here that off-road in their brand new range rovers and they manage.

I’d still like to know where in the UK this 4x4 won’t go.

Edited by Pesty on Saturday 21st September 07:57

There are many green lanes I know and use where the bulk of modern 4x4 such as the New Defender would hinder progress. These are old holloways in the Welsh Marches, Gloucestershire etc. It isn't lack of capability which limits the driver's ambition rather the fear of damage to the bodywork.

[DonkeyApple]

100SRV said:

Pesty said:

We also have guys in here that off-road in their brand new range rovers and they manage.

I’d still like to know where in the UK this 4x4 won’t go.

Edited by Pesty on Saturday 21st September 07:57

There are many green lanes I know and use where the bulk of modern 4x4 such as the New Defender would hinder progress. These are old holloways in the Welsh Marches, Gloucestershire etc. It isn't lack of capability which limits the driver's ambition rather the fear of damage to the bodywork.

Yup. Some stuff would definitely bugger up the sides but that just highlights the problem as being the wallet size of the driver rather than the car.

Even in the far flung parts of Europe, in Africa and Asia there just aren’t many places that you have need to reach that can’t be reached in an old 80s estate car held together by imaginative, local welding.

If you’re just looking to get from A to B then pretty much any car can do that. The 4x4 makes it easier and safer through a wider range of environmental conditions but it’s not the tool that makes it possible.

Generally speaking to find situations that push/exceed the limits of specialist vehicles you need to deliberately go to specialist places. It’s no longer about getting from A to B but about liesure. And it is at that point that a whole different set of economic andnproduct requirements come into play.

No one makes a mass market specialist rock climbing vehicle. There is a reason for that. If people don’t comprehend those reasons then they need to either go back to school or seek medical assistance.

But that’s assuming that this whole debate isn’t just yet another proxy for the age old ‘it’s not fair’ whinge. Which of course it is.

[Pesty]

100SRV said:

Pesty said:

We also have guys in here that off-road in their brand new range rovers and they manage.

I’d still like to know where in the UK this 4x4 won’t go.

Edited by Pesty on Saturday 21st September 07:57

There are many green lanes I know and use where the bulk of modern 4x4 such as the New Defender would hinder progress. These are old holloways in the Welsh Marches, Gloucestershire etc. It isn't lack of capability which limits the driver's ambition rather the fear of damage to the bodywork.

Yes absolutely and you can say that of any expensive car.

I wouldn’t take my shogun down some of the places I took the terracan.

So if you want to go those places you’re either extremely rich or you buy an old jimny and jack it up go where you want and don’t care.

Farmers I’m sure don’t want to smash up their pick ups either if they can help it. That’s what they mostly have around here these days

Love you’re LR I wouldn’t want to damage that either if it were mine so wouldn’t go too extreme

Edited by Pesty on Saturday 21st September 09:44

[InitialDave]

I agree, most of the "green lane damage" you're likely to get would be due to overgrown and very aggressive hedges etc encroaching into the path.

Is this not why LR have the factory vinyl wrap/PPF option for the new car?

[Bill]

And the lanes are only the size they are due to the Defender sized holes that have been worn in them. New Defender, new hole. Eventually.

[DonkeyApple]

Bill said:

And the lanes are only the size they are due to the Defender sized holes that have been worn in them. New Defender, new hole. Eventually.

With a strange little box shaped indent about 4 foot up on the right hand vegetation?

[InitialDave]

Bill said:

And the lanes are only the size they are due to the Defender sized holes that have been worn in them. New Defender, new hole. Eventually.

I remember they said they got themselves caught out on the factory test tracks when they launched the P38 Range Rover. The diffs are on the passenger side, whereas they're on the driver's side of all the previous Land Rover and Range Rover models - the P38 was grounding out in areas it nominally "shouldn't", because it wasn't fitting the historical "diff" groove worn in areas they only drove in one direction.

[Bill]

both of you.

[100SRV]

InitialDave said:

I agree, most of the "green lane damage" you're likely to get would be due to overgrown and very aggressive hedges etc encroaching into the path.

Is this not why LR have the factory vinyl wrap/PPF option for the new car?

I am less concerned about the bodywork / finish, sure most of the undergrowth will concede and let a larger car past.

The older trees and rocks will put up more of a fight, it is these harder obstacles and the fact that the myriad heat exchangers on so many vehicles are mounted in the lower front quarters which worries me. Loss of traction on a descent or corner (even at slow speed) could render the vehicle immobile or expensive to repair.

But, as pointed out many times if you can afford one then repair costs are not a problem and I'm not in the market for one anyway. ;-)