RE: Land Rover Defender | Frankfurt 2019
Discussion
Water Fairy said:
I fear this has lost the ethos of the original
No s
t Sherlock!People seem to be forgetting with modern crash, emissions, safety, impact, insurance, tax, service, rules, regulations, legislation, and standards you physically are not allowed to make a car even close to the 'original defender'. Even the most basic of basic modern new cars is heavily electrified, with numerous ECUs & Sensors required that would make most ''hard core off roaders'' weak at the knees.
This is a modern, premium, family orientated car with a helluva capable side to it, made by a premium manufacturer. it is perfect for bashing into kerbs, driving camping, through dodgy terrain, up poorly maintained country roads in the winter with your family on board.
Who gives a toss if you can't put sheep in the back of it!? All 14 farmers & 2 ''off road enthusiasts'' who never have, nor ever will, buy a new car? JLR must have sweated that one out.....
I think that Defender looks ace! Perfect for a family wagon, good looking, well proportioned & reasonably priced all considering.
Edited by Andeh1 on Tuesday 10th September 10:23
spreadsheet monkey said:
abzmike said:
wl606 said:
It looks rather nice.
And what is the 4x4 of choice these days for a not overly rich farmer?
Judging by the farmers round my way a Mitsubishi.And what is the 4x4 of choice these days for a not overly rich farmer?
Richard Porter summarises the Defender and its pricing very accurately here. It’s for upper middle class families, not farmers.
https://www.evo.co.uk/opinion/22767/it-s-time-ever...
I’m not 100% they’re doing it but a 90 on coil suspension with the 3.0 Petrol is the one for me. Would have to be on bigger wheels though as I’m sure the steelies wont fit over the brakes for that engine.
I think it looks great - the '90' with steel wheels looks spot on.
I hope this draws a line in the sand for JLRs notorious reputation for poor reliability. From what this article says, they have put a lot more testing into it and over engineered where they can. The Defender can't afford to be just another JLR product; it needs to be the halo for Land Rover as a brand.
So far, I like what I'm reading - the little details like the jump seat and roof carrying capacity are what carries over some of the original Defender traits that I do pine for from a modern car.
What the naysayers don't realise is that you don't have to be an offroading junkie to qualify to own a Defender! We have two of the things and I don't actively participate in 'offroading' - I don't use low range either. But they are great for a tip run, great for camping in unfamiliar locations, and great in a world where you are otherwise worried about parking and kerbing 21" wheels in town.
There is of course the 'charm' of driving one; something built on the cars great history and stories; something you get to feel part of.
Let's hope Land Rover has built on this history, and not just taken advantage of it.
I hope this draws a line in the sand for JLRs notorious reputation for poor reliability. From what this article says, they have put a lot more testing into it and over engineered where they can. The Defender can't afford to be just another JLR product; it needs to be the halo for Land Rover as a brand.
So far, I like what I'm reading - the little details like the jump seat and roof carrying capacity are what carries over some of the original Defender traits that I do pine for from a modern car.
What the naysayers don't realise is that you don't have to be an offroading junkie to qualify to own a Defender! We have two of the things and I don't actively participate in 'offroading' - I don't use low range either. But they are great for a tip run, great for camping in unfamiliar locations, and great in a world where you are otherwise worried about parking and kerbing 21" wheels in town.
There is of course the 'charm' of driving one; something built on the cars great history and stories; something you get to feel part of.
Let's hope Land Rover has built on this history, and not just taken advantage of it.
Thank god the tedious build up is finally over, not really left with many surprises at launch.
I like this. Would have to be the 4 door for practical reasons and the steel wheels look great compared to the big alloy versions.
Bound to cost a fortune, but I think they will sell very well.
edit... wow, playing on the configurator, this is definitely an expensive car. There is so much overlap with discovery/velar/range sport. And can’t spec steel wheels on 4 door by the look of it. £60k+ also still doesn’t compute as acceptable for a 2L Diesel engine with not that much power.
I like this. Would have to be the 4 door for practical reasons and the steel wheels look great compared to the big alloy versions.
Bound to cost a fortune, but I think they will sell very well.
edit... wow, playing on the configurator, this is definitely an expensive car. There is so much overlap with discovery/velar/range sport. And can’t spec steel wheels on 4 door by the look of it. £60k+ also still doesn’t compute as acceptable for a 2L Diesel engine with not that much power.
Edited by DS240 on Tuesday 10th September 10:52
Mercutio said:
Am I the only one to bemoan the lack of a manual gearbox across the whole range?!
Probably...A modern auto is significantly better for off-road use, towing, day-to-day driving, etc... In recent years, the only times I've wanted a manual is when I've been teaching as learning to drive with a manual helps you appreciate what a good auto is doing for you and when to override it.
M
je777 said:
A total failure to understand marketing.
However much I - and others - might dislike it, if they'd made this look like a modern but retro pastiche of the old Defender - like Merc have done with the G-Wagen - they'd have sold a bundle.
Look at Mini, Fiat 500, etc. and so on.
One man on the Internet vs. presumably Many Many Many People working on this for many years. Wonder who has the edge on market research...However much I - and others - might dislike it, if they'd made this look like a modern but retro pastiche of the old Defender - like Merc have done with the G-Wagen - they'd have sold a bundle.
Look at Mini, Fiat 500, etc. and so on.
Seriously!? What part of it doesn't look like a modern Defender, accepting you can't just build what you like due to regulation.
This will sell - only the middle class's growing suspicion of JLR reliability will hold it back. It is something genuinely different at that price point - has "proper" off road ability (even if it doesn't people will think that), looks different, and doesn't matter if people don't actually take it off road - all that matters is whether they buy it.
KTF said:
je777 said:
they'd have sold a bundle.
You think this incarnation won't sell then?Look at the G Wagon - it looks very like the old one. This doesn't: it looks like a modern Disco and maybe that's what they should have called it.
cidered77 said:
je777 said:
A total failure to understand marketing.
However much I - and others - might dislike it, if they'd made this look like a modern but retro pastiche of the old Defender - like Merc have done with the G-Wagen - they'd have sold a bundle.
Look at Mini, Fiat 500, etc. and so on.
One man on the Internet vs. presumably Many Many Many People working on this for many years. Wonder who has the edge on market research...However much I - and others - might dislike it, if they'd made this look like a modern but retro pastiche of the old Defender - like Merc have done with the G-Wagen - they'd have sold a bundle.
Look at Mini, Fiat 500, etc. and so on.
Seriously!? What part of it doesn't look like a modern Defender, accepting you can't just build what you like due to regulation.
This will sell - only the middle class's growing suspicion of JLR reliability will hold it back. It is something genuinely different at that price point - has "proper" off road ability (even if it doesn't people will think that), looks different, and doesn't matter if people don't actually take it off road - all that matters is whether they buy it.
They could have done this and called it whatever and done the same car with a different body that looked like a modern take on the Defender and sold way more, in my opinion.
And if the regulations allowed Merc to make the new G Wagon look like the old one I'm sure JLR could have done the same.
Starts at £45k.... C'mon. These cars were aimed at those who's willies aren't for show in the past. Surely this is technically a chunky looking Disco Sport, alternative Discovery or a paired down Sport? All of which cross over at a number of price points. I'm sure it will grow on me but the top of the line £75k hoon spec car is pretty much up against an F Pace SVR or RR Sport SVR and that's in the same JLR stable.... because let's face it. Most of these aren't going off road.. It just makes the JLR offering even more confusing when you add in a Velar, F pace, E pace..
Great write up by the way. And I think in the right colour (in isolation to the rest of the line up) it will look like a good car.
Great write up by the way. And I think in the right colour (in isolation to the rest of the line up) it will look like a good car.
Edited by Jurdy on Tuesday 10th September 10:50
je777 said:
As I say, based on other retro-pastiches selling very well.
They could have done this and called it whatever and done the same car with a different body that looked like a modern take on the Defender and sold way more, in my opinion.
And if the regulations allowed Merc to make the new G Wagon look like the old one I'm sure JLR could have done the same.
But it *is* retro-pastiche in my eyes. No less so that the Fiat 500 or Mini - and look how they sold...They could have done this and called it whatever and done the same car with a different body that looked like a modern take on the Defender and sold way more, in my opinion.
And if the regulations allowed Merc to make the new G Wagon look like the old one I'm sure JLR could have done the same.
True Defenderistas will doubtless have a long list of reasons why it doesn't look like the original - but that shot of it on steelies; looks like a modern recreation of a Defender to me. And i'm sure many others...
The pricing is very ambitious, but I guess LR know what they're doing, and making money is their primary goal.
However, like many others (I suspect), I think it would have been nice if they'd had a lower specification entry-level model that had minimal electronics and no luxuries, ideally with a good basic turbo-diesel. I'm thinking simple vinyl seats, simple ventilation (with optional a/c), hand-cranked wind-up windows, and ruggedized all-manual transmission with a manual locking differential. We can only hope that'll come later.
However, like many others (I suspect), I think it would have been nice if they'd had a lower specification entry-level model that had minimal electronics and no luxuries, ideally with a good basic turbo-diesel. I'm thinking simple vinyl seats, simple ventilation (with optional a/c), hand-cranked wind-up windows, and ruggedized all-manual transmission with a manual locking differential. We can only hope that'll come later.
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