RE: Land Rover Defender | Frankfurt 2019
Discussion
loudlashadjuster said:
techguyone said:
Is this the US equivalent of VAT?
Surely there's some other tax too, we pay 20%!
No, it's a sales tax, slightly different from VAT.Surely there's some other tax too, we pay 20%!
You don't pay as much to buy a car over there but you do have to spend $800 a month on health insurance, so swings and roundabouts I guess
I'll just leave this here:
All but Mississippi
camel_landy said:
Looking at the lineup and the bodystyles, I suspect the Jeep Wrangler, Rubicon & Gladiator are firmly in LandRover's sights. LandRover will make a mint, even if they can tap just a small percentage of the US market.
The Jeep Wrangler Unlimited offers a range that begins at less than the equivalent of £29,000 on the road (tax and all). Throw an enormous sum of £5,000 at it -- for upgrades and options -- and you still have a rather affordable vehicle.Defender has loads of clever electrics, but no live axles, no removable doors, and no massive DIY aftermarket. It comes from an OEM with a reputation for munching on the maintenance budget at dealership rates.
Sure, some Wrangler owners will join the expanding pool of New Defender owners. But is Defender truly targeting the Wrangler? Or hoping to secure a major portion of its volume from Wrangler conquests?
unsprung said:
The Jeep Wrangler Unlimited offers a range that begins at less than the equivalent of £29,000 on the road (tax and all). Throw an enormous sum of £5,000 at it -- for upgrades and options -- and you still have a rather affordable vehicle.
Defender has loads of clever electrics, but no live axles, no removable doors, and no massive DIY aftermarket. It comes from an OEM with a reputation for munching on the maintenance budget at dealership rates.
Sure, some Wrangler owners will join the expanding pool of New Defender owners. But is Defender truly targeting the Wrangler? Or hoping to secure a major portion of its volume from Wrangler conquests?
Wrangler has another thing no current land rover product does, a 1 star safety rating.Defender has loads of clever electrics, but no live axles, no removable doors, and no massive DIY aftermarket. It comes from an OEM with a reputation for munching on the maintenance budget at dealership rates.
Sure, some Wrangler owners will join the expanding pool of New Defender owners. But is Defender truly targeting the Wrangler? Or hoping to secure a major portion of its volume from Wrangler conquests?
"Wrangler: For the buyer who hates his family"
AngryPartsBloke said:
Wrangler has another thing no current land rover product does, a 1 star safety rating.
"Wrangler: For the buyer who hates his family"
Here are the facts:"Wrangler: For the buyer who hates his family"
https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilwinton/2018/12/17...
If you believe that not having things like automatic braking and side head curtain airbags on a fully off-road capable vehicle means that the public should not be able to buy it, you're entitled to that opinion. But that's not what EU or UK authorities say.
unsprung said:
Here are the facts:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilwinton/2018/12/17...
If you believe that not having things like automatic braking and side head curtain airbags on a fully off-road capable vehicle means that the public should not be able to buy it, you're entitled to that opinion. But that's not what EU or UK authorities say.
Not what I said but OK. Point is you should be mindful of why it's cheaper. https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilwinton/2018/12/17...
If you believe that not having things like automatic braking and side head curtain airbags on a fully off-road capable vehicle means that the public should not be able to buy it, you're entitled to that opinion. But that's not what EU or UK authorities say.
stevo1973 said:
Steel wheels cost more than alloys
Before this gets buried in the thread, I'd be interested to know why? Is it the more laborious pressing, rolling and welding operation needed to make the steel wheel where you see the saving? Easier to automate casting with aluminium?NomduJour said:
I’d be more worried about the structural weaknesses, I think
I think I'll go with the engineers of a major OEM, as well as the EU and UK authorities who've certified this vehicle, over your opinion. Sorry.NomduJour said:
(that and being seen in one).
For the UK and some other European countries this is understandable -- as appearances and the self-checking of social class orientation are omnipresent. And are likely to gain the upper hand over self determination.InitialDave said:
stevo1973 said:
Steel wheels cost more than alloys
Before this gets buried in the thread, I'd be interested to know why? Is it the more laborious pressing, rolling and welding operation needed to make the steel wheel where you see the saving? Easier to automate casting with aluminium?AngryPartsBloke said:
unsprung said:
Here are the facts:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilwinton/2018/12/17...
If you believe that not having things like automatic braking and side head curtain airbags on a fully off-road capable vehicle means that the public should not be able to buy it, you're entitled to that opinion. But that's not what EU or UK authorities say.
Not what I said but OK. Point is you should be mindful of why it's cheaper. https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilwinton/2018/12/17...
If you believe that not having things like automatic braking and side head curtain airbags on a fully off-road capable vehicle means that the public should not be able to buy it, you're entitled to that opinion. But that's not what EU or UK authorities say.
It's also enormously capable off road and UK-based off-roading titles have noted this and applauded this for years.
unsprung said:
I think I'll go with the engineers of a major OEM, as well as the EU and UK authorities who've certified this vehicle, over your opinion. Sorry.
“This is a very poor performance, fundamentally structural,” he said. “For a new model to have an unstable passenger cell, where the dummy has made contact with the A-pillar, with the dashboard… [it's poor]"“One of the other things we’re seeing here is that the footwell ruptured”
“The passenger compartment of the Jeep Wrangler did not retain its structural integrity in the frontal offset test. Connection between the A-pillar and the cross fascia beam was compromised, as was the footwell structure, and penalties were applied."
“Protection of the chest was ‘weak’ for the driver and ‘adequate’ for the front passenger. Structures in the dashboard were a potential source of injury for both the driver and passenger and protection of the upper legs was rated ‘marginal'."
“Rearward displacement of the pedals was excessive and, in combination with the footwell rupture, protection of the driver’s feet was rated ‘marginal’."
“In the full width frontal test, chest protection of the driver was ‘marginal’. Protection of the rear passenger neck was ‘weak’, and chest protection was ‘poor’ based on dummy readings and high seat belt loads“
unsprung said:
For the UK and some other European countries this is understandable -- as appearances and the self-checking of social class orientation are omnipresent. And are likely to gain the upper hand over self determination.
Nowt so Queer as Folk. NomduJour said:
Nowt so Queer as Folk.
Indeed. For more than a decade I was told in Britain and on the Continent how Defender was the one and only off roader and that Wrangler a mere hairdresser's car. They laughed and laughed. They being almost exclusively subjects of the Crown. They even laughed after Defender was no longer produced and "old" Defenders were run in magazine comparos against new Wranglers.One day, about eight years or so ago, one UK title crowned Wrangler as better. And there was a considerable uproar among the petrolheads whom I knew.
And now Defender has no live axles. And has made a priority of on-road performance over off.
I wonder if those "folk" are still laughing now.
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