RE: Land Rover Defender | Frankfurt 2019

[frozen-in-wiltshire]

60k for a basic 'defender' - and 80k for the one you want - they must be mad!
this looks like a G-wagen competitor - only the super-rich will dare take it off-road - so it's another "chelsea tractor" from land rover, and no real utility vehicle at all. what a disappointment.

I'm keeping my 2010 defender 90 as long as I can, no way would I buy one of these for work or serious off-road use.
Much as I hate to say it, and I really was looking forward to a new 'utility' defender, I'd have to replace mine with a japanese pickup when it's time comes. never this new one.

This tells me land rover have officially exited the utility vehicle market completely, how sad.

[camel_landy]

Gummi said:

Not sure if this has been posted but watch this to see why it will hopefully be a huge success in the USA. Also Doug's thoughts on the design, technology are exactly on the button. As an owner of a '95 V8 Defender I think he's qualified to comment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbiHyKfw1IM&fb...

I for what its worth I will be getting a 300PS petrol base 90 with steel wheels, active locking rear diff in Pangea green with white roof and wheels when I can.

I work at JLR. I and the rest of the company are incredibly excited about this car. We've all been waiting so long, worked so hard to launch it and for it to finally be out in the open is amazing. Times are hard at the moment, as reported extensively in the press, so it is awesome to have something to be excited about.

Great video, which echos some of my thoughts too.

...and although you've now edited it, I'll agree with your 'observations' on 300.

M

[camel_landy]

frozen-in-wiltshire said:

60k for a basic 'defender' - and 80k for the one you want - they must be mad!
this looks like a G-wagen competitor - only the super-rich will dare take it off-road - so it's another "chelsea tractor" from land rover, and no real utility vehicle at all. what a disappointment.

I'm keeping my 2010 defender 90 as long as I can, no way would I buy one of these for work or serious off-road use.
Much as I hate to say it, and I really was looking forward to a new 'utility' defender, I'd have to replace mine with a japanese pickup when it's time comes. never this new one.

This tells me land rover have officially exited the utility vehicle market completely, how sad.

It'll be interesting to see the commercial pricing and what happens with the residuals.

M

[NomduJour]

frozen-in-wiltshire said:

60k for a basic 'defender'

frozen-in-wiltshire said:

This tells me land rover have officially exited the utility vehicle market completely, how sad.

This tells me you don’t know how much people pay for pickups.

[oldtimer2]

unsprung said:

camel_landy said:

However, if you think Land Rover have quality issues...

I do wish that Land Rover would do better on quality. Jeep does better (kindly see linked pages below).

As noted earlier... Defender must be a volte face to the current experience and to the idea that people in Solihull don't care.

I am sure you are right about this. Land Rover faces a tough battle with the Defender in the USA because it is up against strongly entrenched competition in the USA from Jeep and because of perceptions about the product. The Defender has been absent from the market for many years; and it was never more than a minuscule presence anyway. Nevertheless it will/has already generate interest and curiosity. My assumption is that they are aiming the new Defender more at the growing "overlanding"/camping/outdoor adventure market than hard core rock climbers where its payload and towing capacities offer it some competitive advantage. The USA is blessed, it seems to this outside observer, with an almost limitless choice of spectacular trails, national parks and wilderness areas which is a natural market for Land Rover to seek to develop.

[frozen-in-wiltshire]

NomduJour said:

frozen-in-wiltshire said:

60k for a basic 'defender'

frozen-in-wiltshire said:

This tells me land rover have officially exited the utility vehicle market completely, how sad.

This tells me you don’t know how much people pay for pickups.

40k for the asthmatic one - no use
60k for the sensibly powered diesel - the one you need
78k for the one you actually want

utility pickups can be had new for under 25k vat inclusive - hilux, navarra, and others. 30k for a good spec one with all you need, new.

I'm not talking about the blinged-up nonsense driven only in towns - I'm talking about the real workhorses used offroad.

your response tells me you can't use google - try a search for real utility vehicles, not chelsea tractors

[AngryPartsBloke]

InitialDave said:

AngryPartsBloke said:

Ahh, the old "the more verbose my comment the more credible it must be"

Which part of my comment do you take issue with?

None, as it wasn't directed at you.

[frozen-in-wiltshire]

camel_landy said:

frozen-in-wiltshire said:

60k for a basic 'defender' - and 80k for the one you want - they must be mad!
this looks like a G-wagen competitor - only the super-rich will dare take it off-road - so it's another "chelsea tractor" from land rover, and no real utility vehicle at all. what a disappointment.

I'm keeping my 2010 defender 90 as long as I can, no way would I buy one of these for work or serious off-road use.
Much as I hate to say it, and I really was looking forward to a new 'utility' defender, I'd have to replace mine with a japanese pickup when it's time comes. never this new one.

This tells me land rover have officially exited the utility vehicle market completely, how sad.

It'll be interesting to see the commercial pricing and what happens with the residuals.

M

indeed it will - very interesting indeed.

[anonymous-user]

I think it looks awesome- what the Disco should be.

[AngryPartsBloke]

People really surprised that Land Rover has left the utility market? Seeing as they lost it years ago, it's over subscribed and they have almost 7 manufacturers fighting it out.

[Gummi]

camel_landy said:

Gummi said:

Not sure if this has been posted but watch this to see why it will hopefully be a huge success in the USA. Also Doug's thoughts on the design, technology are exactly on the button. As an owner of a '95 V8 Defender I think he's qualified to comment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbiHyKfw1IM&fb...

I for what its worth I will be getting a 300PS petrol base 90 with steel wheels, active locking rear diff in Pangea green with white roof and wheels when I can.

I work at JLR. I and the rest of the company are incredibly excited about this car. We've all been waiting so long, worked so hard to launch it and for it to finally be out in the open is amazing. Times are hard at the moment, as reported extensively in the press, so it is awesome to have something to be excited about.

Great video, which echos some of my thoughts too.

...and although you've now edited it, I'll agree with your 'observations' on 300.

M

Hehe, I thought I wouldn't stoop to the level of some!

[NomduJour]

frozen-in-wiltshire said:

40k for the asthmatic one - no use

your response tells me you can't use google - try a search for real utility vehicles, not chelsea tractors

Ha.

You’ve got a 2.4 Puma-engined Defender, and you think 197 bhp/317 lb/ft with eight gears is going to feel asthmatic by comparison?

[Imafreeman]

Leave the real Defender replacement for Ineos to provide the mechanical workhorse. This is an SUV for the urban rich trendies so I hope it does well for JLR as they really need a big seller.
Not my type of vehicle though.

[unsprung]

camel_landy said:

unsprung said:

If we want to say, "Quantitative data from a quality survey that's been run for decades in a very large and competitive market is not going to change my personal opinion," it's useful to be transparent about this. I seldom see this on PH, and I welcome it.

M

Sometimes a forum can read like the logical equivalent of that retro party game, Twister

[unsprung]

oldtimer2 said:

I am sure you are right about this. Land Rover faces a tough battle with the Defender in the USA because it is up against strongly entrenched competition in the USA from Jeep and because of perceptions about the product. The Defender has been absent from the market for many years; and it was never more than a minuscule presence anyway. Nevertheless it will/has already generate interest and curiosity. My assumption is that they are aiming the new Defender more at the growing "overlanding"/camping/outdoor adventure market than hard core rock climbers where its payload and towing capacities offer it some competitive advantage. The USA is blessed, it seems to this outside observer, with an almost limitless choice of spectacular trails, national parks and wilderness areas which is a natural market for Land Rover to seek to develop.

That sounds right to me. Overlanding and glamping and such are ideal experiences for Defender to target.

This doesn't mean that Defender only does those things; it means that Defender offers the promise of doing those things in addition to being very good off-road, being a daily driver and being a family car.

There are loads of competitors as 48 percent of new car sales are SUVs. Do a search for example: USA mid sized SUVs.

What most competitors lack, however, is the heritage of Defender, the particular charm of the Defender design language, and the social cache of being an upmarket British brand. I'm aware that not all of those attributes are delivered upon in full, according to some here on PH, but that's not a point I'm arguing.

This doesn't mean, however, that Defender runs away with all of the overlanding and glamping volume. It's still likely to be a premium product.

Furthermore, there's loads more SUVs on the way, some decidedly on-road only, and others with soft-roader and off-road capability. Some are hybrids, others are full-on BEVs.

Some random offers I'll mention here:

-- the impending launches from Genesis

-- those of the Ford Bronco

-- and that of the Mustang.

[w1bbles]

This isn’t exactly high brow and I haven’t read the whole thread, but I like it.

I’ve owned 4 Defenders...

V8 90
Chipped Td5 90
V8 90 (again)
Chipped Td5 110

And 3 Discos

Disco 3 V8
Disco 3 log burner
Disco 4 3.0 log burner

I would love something that mates the 2 models, which the new one appears to do. It’s just a pity I won’t be interested in buying one until the second hand price of the £75,000 one I specced today has dropped to £20k!

[Pesty]

w1bbles said:

I would love something that mates the 2 models, which the new one appears to do. It’s just a pity I won’t be interested in buying one until the second hand price of the £75,000 one I specced today has dropped to £20k!

I was thinking of swapping the Shogun for a wrangler.

I love the wrangler but now I’m thinking wait until a 45k specked 90 gets to around 27ish.

Just configured a 110 again looking to keep it cheep ended up at over 50k very quickly. Probably on stuff I don’t need but well.

Shame you can’t get the steel wheels in body colour or black. Think that green with black roof and black wheels would look great

[camel_landy]

Pesty said:

Shame you can’t get the steel wheels in body colour or black. Think that green with black roof and black wheels would look great

You could always just get them powder coated.

M

[ettore]

Imafreeman said:

Leave the real Defender replacement for Ineos to provide the mechanical workhorse. This is an SUV for the urban rich trendies so I hope it does well for JLR as they really need a big seller.
Not my type of vehicle though.

Yawn.

[ettore]

frozen-in-wiltshire said:

60k for a basic 'defender' - and 80k for the one you want - they must be mad!
this looks like a G-wagen competitor - only the super-rich will dare take it off-road - so it's another "chelsea tractor" from land rover, and no real utility vehicle at all. what a disappointment.

I'm keeping my 2010 defender 90 as long as I can, no way would I buy one of these for work or serious off-road use.
Much as I hate to say it, and I really was looking forward to a new 'utility' defender, I'd have to replace mine with a japanese pickup when it's time comes. never this new one.

This tells me land rover have officially exited the utility vehicle market completely, how sad.

You’re just deliberately looking to make an inane comment aren’t you?

Commercial is £35k.