RE: 'Plaid' level Model S revealed with lap record
Discussion
ruprechtmonkeyboy said:
The Model S is an old car now and starting to show its age. Does anyone know if Tesla has a replacement model lined up?
Tesla adopted tech industry practices for their products there are no yearly updates, updates ship when they are ready.Hence the new raven motor shipped earlier this year. They also upped charge rates at the same time.
They also added active suspension at the same time.
The plaid upgrade comes out next year. This will be a three motor set-up and probably in the region of 900bhp.
This will also need an improved battery pack, whether this battery pack will be released at the same time will remain to be seen as the battery pack would also benefit the raven power train cars with range and charge rates.
Also the Model S needs the battery upgrade as the Model 3 is cannibalising the Model S sales as it has a generation newer cell and module technology at the moment. It also has a cleaner newer interior.
Expect the Model S to gain a new interior, maybe a HUD while they are at it.
I would be surprised if they didn't also change lights and some panels too.
The question is what is outdated about the Model S?
Why do you need to change the structure?
My suspicions are that the routes they could choose to go down would be to derive a Model S II from the Model Y platform.
This would allow them to cut costs considerably and vastly improve their margin. The other option would be to make a 4 door variant of the Roadster Mk II which could sell at a higher price point.
They could do both.
I think the styling is now a bit familiar, its been around for getting on for 8 years or so, so they can do stuff with the range, the interior, the suspensions, the motors, the batteries and even a new slightly obscure 80s Spoof movie reference, but a 2019 Model S doesnt look much different to a 2012 version.
The structure doesnt need to change but I think people will expect to see a bit of a styling revamp .
The structure doesnt need to change but I think people will expect to see a bit of a styling revamp .
RobDickinson said:
But *overheating*!!?!? 
One of my colleagues is out there at the moment and apparently the car is basically lacking any interior at all, has the most aggressive track biased tyre you can buy and 3 prototype electric motors. It’s a fair effort if they do a 7:23 but there’s a way to go until it’s a production car. It’s a weird tactic by Tesla. Not really sure what they’re trying to achieve as, being a full on one off special (currently) puts it up against the ID.R and of course anyone who cares will understand that. So is this really just so Musk can win a Twitter rant?!
There’s an interesting article here:
https://electrek.co/2019/09/17/tesla-plaid-model-s...
Personally it’d be pretty cool if they did launch a Jaguar Project 8 esq track special. I’m not sure what the market would be like for it, but I imagine it would be a lot of fun to drive.
If they can also beat the Taycan time with a production spec car too, it’d be cool. There’s a way to go though until that point by the sounds of it.
They're trying to use Porsche's press attention to get their own. It's a Judo manoeuvre. Using your opponents momentum to give you advantage.
It doesn't matter what the specs of the cars are, we're talking about a Tesla, rather than/as well as a Porsche.
Musk is a lot of things, including a great opportunist and publicist.
It doesn't matter what the specs of the cars are, we're talking about a Tesla, rather than/as well as a Porsche.
Musk is a lot of things, including a great opportunist and publicist.
janesmith1950 said:
They're trying to use Porsche's press attention to get their own. It's a Judo manoeuvre. Using your opponents momentum to give you advantage.
It doesn't matter what the specs of the cars are, we're talking about a Tesla, rather than/as well as a Porsche.
Musk is a lot of things, including a great opportunist and publicist.
True, but no one can buy the Plaid spec for at least a year. So what happens then? Someone who is considering a Taycan is not going to buy a Model S when they find out it’s still the de-rating, poorly made and uninspiringly dull to steer car that’s been around since the start. They’ll just go and buy a Taycan.It doesn't matter what the specs of the cars are, we're talking about a Tesla, rather than/as well as a Porsche.
Musk is a lot of things, including a great opportunist and publicist.
RacerMike said:
One of my colleagues is out there at the moment and apparently the car is basically lacking any interior at all, has the most aggressive track biased tyre you can buy and 3 prototype electric motors. It’s a fair effort if they do a 7:23 but there’s a way to go until it’s a production car.
It’s a weird tactic by Tesla. Not really sure what they’re trying to achieve as, being a full on one off special (currently) puts it up against the ID.R and of course anyone who cares will understand that. So is this really just so Musk can win a Twitter rant?!
There’s an interesting article here:
https://electrek.co/2019/09/17/tesla-plaid-model-s...
Personally it’d be pretty cool if they did launch a Jaguar Project 8 esq track special. I’m not sure what the market would be like for it, but I imagine it would be a lot of fun to drive.
If they can also beat the Taycan time with a production spec car too, it’d be cool. There’s a way to go though until that point by the sounds of it.
I'd be interested in your opinion on the current Taycan lap Mike? I know you've got a fair bit of industry pool experience at t'ring, and to me, it looks like a pretty low effort "safe" lap (in fact, i'd say a typical durability type lap, fast but lets say 8/10ths rather than 10/10ths!)It’s a weird tactic by Tesla. Not really sure what they’re trying to achieve as, being a full on one off special (currently) puts it up against the ID.R and of course anyone who cares will understand that. So is this really just so Musk can win a Twitter rant?!
There’s an interesting article here:
https://electrek.co/2019/09/17/tesla-plaid-model-s...
Personally it’d be pretty cool if they did launch a Jaguar Project 8 esq track special. I’m not sure what the market would be like for it, but I imagine it would be a lot of fun to drive.
If they can also beat the Taycan time with a production spec car too, it’d be cool. There’s a way to go though until that point by the sounds of it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8m31EgQkswg&
Even had to swerve around the cones on the lap start (because they didn't have exclusive track access that day)
I think there's a lot more left in that car to come based on that footage?
(ETA, i think the front tyres are toast too after about 3 min!)
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 17th September 21:27
Max_Torque said:
I'd be interested in your opinion on the current Taycan lap Mike? I know you've got a fair bit of industry pool experience at t'ring, and to me, it looks like a pretty low effort "safe" lap (in fact, i'd say a typical durability type lap, fast but lets say 8/10ths rather than 10/10ths!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8m31EgQkswg&
Even had to swerve around the cones on the lap start (because they didn't have exclusive track access that day)
I think there's a lot more left in that car to come based on that footage?
(ETA, i think the front tyres are toast too after about 3 min!)
I think part of the perception that it doesn’t look that quick is down to it being an EV.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8m31EgQkswg&
Even had to swerve around the cones on the lap start (because they didn't have exclusive track access that day)
I think there's a lot more left in that car to come based on that footage?
(ETA, i think the front tyres are toast too after about 3 min!)
Edited by Max_Torque on Tuesday 17th September 21:27
It’s surprising how much of an impression of the overall effort the driver is putting in you lose from the lack of engine noise. You can tell so much of what the driver is up to, based on how much they’re revving it out, and holding onto gears, which you just totally lose. There was some filming I did in *cough* ‘another EV’ which on playback, even with mic’s placed strategically looked rather uneventful, when in reality I was really trying!
The cones will make a bit of difference on the entry to T13, but maybe only a second at the absolute max. You’re already braking as you go past the end of the barrier if you’re approaching it without cones.
In terms of tyres....I assume Porsche did the lap on some PS4’s or the Goodyear Supersport (fast road) which I think are the standard fit tyres. As with most stuff over 1700kg, they start to overheat around the 3min mark, which on a fast lap is around Breidscheid/Ex Mule. Even a Cup 2 R will start to struggle if the car is heavy. However, a Michelin engineer told me the Cup 2 R is around 0.5s per km faster than a Cup 2. Which I can believe. So an R spec tyre over a Supersport. Probably another 0.5s per km. So that’s 21s right there!
Perhaps with a Turbo S power limit, and some Cup 2 R’s, maybe you could get into the low 7’s. Providing of course the S doesn’t de-rate due to the extra current load!
RobDickinson said:
RacerMike said:
RobDickinson said:
But *overheating*!!?!?
One of my colleagues is out there at the moment and apparently the car is basically lacking any interior at allRobDickinson said:
Tesla has not claimed its a stock/currently available car though?
But Porsche have. And the whole point of ‘Ring times is they’re largely meant to be cars you can buy now.What Tesla are doing is akin to BMW turning up to beat the Porsche 911 GT2 RS time of 6:47 with an M2 that has an M5 V8, absolutely no interior, slicks, a load of aero and then saying:
‘You can probably buy this next year. But it’ll maybe not have slicks. And might have an interior. And probably won’t have the aero. But look. It did a 6:30’
RacerMike said:
I think part of the perception that it doesn’t look that quick is down to it being an EV.
It’s surprising how much of an impression of the overall effort the driver is putting in you lose from the lack of engine noise. You can tell so much of what the driver is up to, based on how much they’re revving it out, and holding onto gears, which you just totally lose. There was some filming I did in *cough* ‘another EV’ which on playback, even with mic’s placed strategically looked rather uneventful, when in reality I was really trying!
The cones will make a bit of difference on the entry to T13, but maybe only a second at the absolute max. You’re already braking as you go past the end of the barrier if you’re approaching it without cones.
In terms of tyres....I assume Porsche did the lap on some PS4’s or the Goodyear Supersport (fast road) which I think are the standard fit tyres. As with most stuff over 1700kg, they start to overheat around the 3min mark, which on a fast lap is around Breidscheid/Ex Mule. Even a Cup 2 R will start to struggle if the car is heavy. However, a Michelin engineer told me the Cup 2 R is around 0.5s per km faster than a Cup 2. Which I can believe. So an R spec tyre over a Supersport. Probably another 0.5s per km. So that’s 21s right there!
Perhaps with a Turbo S power limit, and some Cup 2 R’s, maybe you could get into the low 7’s. Providing of course the S doesn’t de-rate due to the extra current load!
It's not that it doesn't look quick, it clearly is ( a 7.42 is a pretty decent lap after all in any car) it just that it doesn't look quite like a record lap to me! The car is clearly v heavy and struggles to get to the apexes under braking (he misses a fair number of lines, although he is avoiding any serious understeer quite clearly to protect the front tyres) Once under positive torque, the motors clearly shuffle torque around and the car looks really good and neutral, although i'm not that impressed with how the car is getting out of some of the turns. It looks like some level of active torque dynamics or DSC is active, assuming the green throttle bar on the trace is accelerator pedal position, the car appears strangely un-responsive given it's massive and instant power / torque capability.It’s surprising how much of an impression of the overall effort the driver is putting in you lose from the lack of engine noise. You can tell so much of what the driver is up to, based on how much they’re revving it out, and holding onto gears, which you just totally lose. There was some filming I did in *cough* ‘another EV’ which on playback, even with mic’s placed strategically looked rather uneventful, when in reality I was really trying!
The cones will make a bit of difference on the entry to T13, but maybe only a second at the absolute max. You’re already braking as you go past the end of the barrier if you’re approaching it without cones.
In terms of tyres....I assume Porsche did the lap on some PS4’s or the Goodyear Supersport (fast road) which I think are the standard fit tyres. As with most stuff over 1700kg, they start to overheat around the 3min mark, which on a fast lap is around Breidscheid/Ex Mule. Even a Cup 2 R will start to struggle if the car is heavy. However, a Michelin engineer told me the Cup 2 R is around 0.5s per km faster than a Cup 2. Which I can believe. So an R spec tyre over a Supersport. Probably another 0.5s per km. So that’s 21s right there!
Perhaps with a Turbo S power limit, and some Cup 2 R’s, maybe you could get into the low 7’s. Providing of course the S doesn’t de-rate due to the extra current load!
Ok, you ain't going to drive a big chunky Taycan like a banzi FWD hot hatch, but watch the video for the Megane Trophy RS, which does a 7.42, so similar overall pace, and it looks a LOT more committed, in terms of attack,line choice, usage of kerbs, braking points and ultimately apex speed!
And lets not forget, Porsche are the masters at Nth level chassis tuning. They have the resource to badger away, bit, by bit, by bit, and all those small improvements add up.
RacerMike said:
RobDickinson said:
RacerMike said:
RobDickinson said:
But *overheating*!!?!?
One of my colleagues is out there at the moment and apparently the car is basically lacking any interior at allGassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff