RE: £90k McLaren 650S | Spotted
Discussion
br d said:
Honeywell said:
Do supercars even work any more in this country? I promised myself a 911 as a young man and now that I could afford one I found I didn’t want one because doing 69mph in second gear meant it you only needed 2nd and 3rd on any British B road.
I live in South Essex where there's a speed camera every 84 feet, that's why I do half of my annual mileage in Europe. You can still have lots of fun in a supercar if you make the effort. TX.
The Vambo said:
Passive-aggressive, smug and making up quotes that nobody could remember 8 years later.
Cool post.
Why, thank you. Smug, yes, passive-aggressive? hardly. I take it you must have been one of those taken in. Here's some quotes to remind you:Cool post.
"how does it compare to Ferrari in the critical Catastrophic Electrical System Failure, Randomly Bursting Into Flames and Requiring a ₤10,000 Service Every Six Months departments?"
"is solidly engineered "
"Superb engineering from this country, 50 years ago E Type hit the news..."
"I'm sure it's an awesomely engineered car..."
"...from an engineering perspective it is just superb"
Terminator X said:
Come on if that is your attitude a Renault Twizzy would do you!
TX.
Surely a Twizzy is more Hypercar? I can't keep up. TX.
Pretty much anything would be fun in the Alps though.
Going back to this threads Mac though, isn't a similar aged 488 getting on for 50% more than this price?
Really subjective I know but the 650S is miles ahead of the 488 for me, not even on the same page.
If you don't want mega bills you really need to look at very simple cars. More vintage based. That doesn't have to mean slow. Far from. There are alternatives to buying the latest most overly complex thing possible. If you want a modern shiny toy I think every single one will potentially throw up a mega bill. Whether Audi, Ferrari, Porsche, makes no odds. All are amazingly complex.
I'm going far simpler,old school, borderline racer for the road at some point. Once the budget allows. I expect minimal costs and outrageous performance. Less badge and interior mind you!
If you have the spare funds to keep them repaired or want to swap cars reguarly then enjoy of course. If that were my goal though, I'd probably opt for the last NA Ferrari F430 scud.
I'm going far simpler,old school, borderline racer for the road at some point. Once the budget allows. I expect minimal costs and outrageous performance. Less badge and interior mind you!
If you have the spare funds to keep them repaired or want to swap cars reguarly then enjoy of course. If that were my goal though, I'd probably opt for the last NA Ferrari F430 scud.
BMW A6 said:
TheRainMaker said:
$150,000 on engine and transmission work?No thank you. Aaahm ooout.
GranCab said:
The 458 was still in production in 2014. The cheapest 2014 458 in PH classifieds is £140K and has done 17K miles.
The 488 was from 2015 onwards. The cheapest 2015 488 in PH classifieds is £154,830 and has done 11K miles.
Amazing how little mileage people seem to do with Ferraris that are usually claimed to be much better cars to er drive than the Mclarens... The 488 was from 2015 onwards. The cheapest 2015 488 in PH classifieds is £154,830 and has done 11K miles.
br d said:
Going back to this threads Mac though, isn't a similar aged 488 getting on for 50% more than this price?
Really subjective I know but the 650S is miles ahead of the 488 for me, not even on the same page.
This.Really subjective I know but the 650S is miles ahead of the 488 for me, not even on the same page.
McLaren weren't even on my radar until about 18mths ago as the prices were a bit strong although i did like the looks of the P1 so naturally i liked the 650.
Now as an owner of a 650 spider, i can also confirm it feels a generation ahead of the 488 as br d mentioned above.
Depreciation has hit McLarens hard, but that in turn makes it easier to get your hands on one as a mere mortal with reasonable finances.
As also mentioned by others, whether its a 540 or a 720, there is not much that can keep up with McLarens, but more importantly how easy they are to drive and to live with...pop out to the shops, get a takeaway, long haul short haul...on a trip lately it showed 32mpg due to the average speed cameras and cruising.
The 650 seems to be the sweet spot as its a super series, most niggles of the 12c were ironed out, Mclaren were not under pressure to launch newer models and there are not 'that' many bad stories of 650 ownership. Mines has been faultless and a joy to own so far.
At McLaren for a service lately, when speaking to the guys working & servicing McLarens, to a man, the 650 is their favourite as they are easy to work on and very seldom are in for faults.
If i recall correctly, on Hoovies garage, all these huge bills were covered under the bulletproof McLaren warranty...at £3700 for the warranty i think its pretty reasonable. Its mentioned that on a 458 etc its cheaper etc, but if your paying £30k more for the original purchase on the 2nd hand market where is this saving?
A 650 spider is a relatively safe bet as at just over £100k now its a £150k price gap between it the the next super series equivalent...the 720 spider. With the carbon tub the spider is always going to be the desired choice even if you get the roof down once a year; i personally hardly ever have the roof up.
For whatever reason, there is a lot of dislike for McLaren...i'm not entirely sure why.
Kubevoid said:
BMW A6 said:
TheRainMaker said:
$150,000 on engine and transmission work?No thank you. Aaahm ooout.
McLarens are first and foremost performance cars, but their secondary role is being a luxury vehicle and a noisy, rough manual just wouldnt sell cars even if it will deal with massive power and is indestructible. Hoovies car was an early MP4-12C and it had quite a few issues, the actual transmission manufacturer is Graziano who are well respected, I think that isnt representative of every McLaren owners experiences.
I'm not suggesting you want an actual race transmission. That was merely an example of how well made some gearbox are. So when spending vastly more money, to handle vastly less power, you'd at least think they would be tested to handle it properly.
I suspect like many things now, they focus upon saving a few grams, or having 1mpg better figures, rather than building something as strong and reliable as it could have been.
I suspect like many things now, they focus upon saving a few grams, or having 1mpg better figures, rather than building something as strong and reliable as it could have been.
Saw a TV programme a while back about Mclaren where the factory looked like a high tech laboratory and everything looked perfect. Ron Dennis was having a major strop about the fact that one floor tile in the reception area that had been replaced was a slightly different colour to all of the others. I thought that such pursuit of perfection would result in a car so perfect and, over engineered, that it would be bullet proof and would be as close to a "never go wrong" car as it would be possible to get. That then bring its USP (not as glamorous or exotic as a Ferrari but as reliable as a Swiss watch). Otherwise I don't get it and that makes me a bit sad.
isaldiri said:
GranCab said:
The 458 was still in production in 2014. The cheapest 2014 458 in PH classifieds is £140K and has done 17K miles.
The 488 was from 2015 onwards. The cheapest 2015 488 in PH classifieds is £154,830 and has done 11K miles.
Amazing how little mileage people seem to do with Ferraris that are usually claimed to be much better cars to er drive than the Mclarens... The 488 was from 2015 onwards. The cheapest 2015 488 in PH classifieds is £154,830 and has done 11K miles.
GranCab said:
I guess the average mid-engine Ferrari owner does around a couple of thousand miles p.a. on weekend trips to posh hotels whereas the average McLaren owner racks up a lot more going back and forth to the Mcdealership to get their car fixed .....
It would be fascinating to get the facts on how owners of the different marques use their cars.I’m sure there are plenty of Ferrari owners who do track their cars and plenty of McLaren owners who don’t despite anecdotal evidence to the contrary.
That said, if I owned a modern Ferrari or McLaren i’m not sure I’d take them on track.
I applaud those that do but I just think there are better options. Once you’ve driven a Radical on track everything else just seems flabby.
OddCat said:
... I thought that such pursuit of perfection would result in a car so perfect and, over engineered, that it would be bullet proof and would be as close to a "never go wrong" car as it would be possible to get. That then bring its USP (not as glamorous or exotic as a Ferrari but as reliable as a Swiss watch). Otherwise I don't get it and that makes me a bit sad.
The more moving parts you have, the more chance that something will go wrong. If the customer demands all sorts of features and specific targets to be met, then you are spreading the budget more thinly per component.There are so many examples of needless over complexity now. Not just in cars. Although relevant examples would include...
Simple indicator bulb at 50p, or a circuit board with a computer and LED assembly at £600. Designed to solve the "problem" of a 50p bulb wearing out. And yet, the LEDs and circuit fail.
Or timing chain systems costing £18k to replace instead of a £50 cam belt.
So called clever designers meeting some arbitrary targets no doubt. Yet completely ignoring basic common sense. To my eyes, the entire world is this way.
For this reason I have zero intention of purchasing any modern halo car when my budget allows. Instead I will put it all into something incredibly simple by comparison. Yet likely as fast, if not more so.
Edited by Kubevoid on Saturday 14th September 15:27
Kubevoid said:
The more moving parts you have, the more chance that something will go wrong. If the customer demands all sorts of features and specific targets to be met, then you are spreading the budget more thinly per component.
There are so many examples of needless over complexity now. Not just in cars. Although relevant examples would include...
Simple indicator bulb at 50p, or a circuit board with a computer and LED assembly at £600. Designed to solve the "problem" of a 50p bulb wearing out. And yet, the LEDs and circuit fail.
Or timing chain systems costing £18k to replace instead of a £50 cam belt.
So called clever designers meeting some arbitrary targets no doubt. Yet completely ignoring basic common sense. To my eyes, the entire world is this way.
For this reason I have zero intention of purchasing any modern halo car when my budget allows. Instead I will put it all into something incredibly simple by comparison. Yet likely as fast, if not more so.
In defence of the engineers - this is the fault of the customer, they want their car to have the new tech because old means bad even if it’s not actually true. There are so many examples of needless over complexity now. Not just in cars. Although relevant examples would include...
Simple indicator bulb at 50p, or a circuit board with a computer and LED assembly at £600. Designed to solve the "problem" of a 50p bulb wearing out. And yet, the LEDs and circuit fail.
Or timing chain systems costing £18k to replace instead of a £50 cam belt.
So called clever designers meeting some arbitrary targets no doubt. Yet completely ignoring basic common sense. To my eyes, the entire world is this way.
For this reason I have zero intention of purchasing any modern halo car when my budget allows. Instead I will put it all into something incredibly simple by comparison. Yet likely as fast, if not more so.
Edited by Kubevoid on Saturday 14th September 15:27
OddCat said:
...Mclaren where the factory looked like a high tech laboratory and everything looked perfect. Ron Dennis was having a major strop about the fact that one floor tile in the reception area that had been replaced was a slightly different colour to all of the others. I thought that such pursuit of perfection would result in a car so perfect and, over engineered, that it would be bullet proof and would be as close to a "never go wrong" car as it would be possible to get.
Well, this is the thing, the 'reputation'. I recall a similar tale about a load of trolley wheels arriving and being pale grey instead of pure white so having to be re-ordered. There is professionalism, well presented, clean and tidy and so on, but then there's also pernicketiness, OCD and micromanaging. That can give the appearance of perfection without being anything more than superficial because people learn how to work the system - make everything look perfect and you don't get picked up on anything deeper. A bit like Jony Ive who said something along the lines of "I'd always take two designs to Jobs, a fake and then the real one because he'd always reject the first one."Mr Cod said:
Late 12Cs and 650s are broadly bullet proof. Ask the owners. Of which I was one.
This doesn't meant that McLaren don't have significant problems.
The official warranty is too expensive. But it covers absolutely everything going wrong on a £300k car (my spider was £271k new) so it needs context. But the Thorney warranty is a great alternative for half the price.
There is not a decent indie network yet. Hopefully that will come.
There have been horrendous and much documented paint issues in 540/570. And some of the early 720s owners have had nightmares. There are clearly "bad cars" which have simply not been built well enough, which is not acceptable for a car at this level.
But I think that if you get a 12C or 650s that has been properly serviced, and put a Thorney warranty on it, you have an insane amount of performance for the money, and running costs not much higher than a big german barge or a 911.
You can say "these will be worthless in a couple of years". I strongly disagree. All the problems above are getting sorted, slowly. And even if they don't a car that can do 0-60 in 3 seconds would have a life as a track toy at around 50k mark. The performance and thrill is still amazing even in a 5 year old car.
Your 12c Spider was 271k new, that’s some serious dollarThis doesn't meant that McLaren don't have significant problems.
The official warranty is too expensive. But it covers absolutely everything going wrong on a £300k car (my spider was £271k new) so it needs context. But the Thorney warranty is a great alternative for half the price.
There is not a decent indie network yet. Hopefully that will come.
There have been horrendous and much documented paint issues in 540/570. And some of the early 720s owners have had nightmares. There are clearly "bad cars" which have simply not been built well enough, which is not acceptable for a car at this level.
But I think that if you get a 12C or 650s that has been properly serviced, and put a Thorney warranty on it, you have an insane amount of performance for the money, and running costs not much higher than a big german barge or a 911.
You can say "these will be worthless in a couple of years". I strongly disagree. All the problems above are getting sorted, slowly. And even if they don't a car that can do 0-60 in 3 seconds would have a life as a track toy at around 50k mark. The performance and thrill is still amazing even in a 5 year old car.
With this very nice 12c Spider on sale https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/... at mid 70k I’m surprised that level of depreciation is not in the Guinness Book of Records
Maldini35 said:
That said, if I owned a modern Ferrari or McLaren i’m not sure I’d take them on track.
I applaud those that do but I just think there are better options. Once you’ve driven a Radical on track everything else just seems flabby.
Completely agree on the Radical but on the other hand, no one I think is expecting a road car, however good the likes of even a high powered sports car are these day to approach that level of focus and track capability. Track days are mainly for larking around, having fun with friends and trying to use all the capability the cars are capable of given the road driving environment in this country is terrible and getting worse. And even in Europe which has far better road surfaces, less traffic etc one simply just couldn't drive a modern Ferrari or Mclaren to anything like it's limits on the road.... I applaud those that do but I just think there are better options. Once you’ve driven a Radical on track everything else just seems flabby.
Just come back on the Eurotunnel and met two guys coming back from a euro hoon, a gorgeous Aurora Blue 650S and a special edition R8.
I like the look of the 650S more now than when I had one, fabulous thing.
The R8 was one of only 5 RH drive models, looked and sounded fantastic.
Thrashing round Europe is what these things were made for!
I like the look of the 650S more now than when I had one, fabulous thing.
The R8 was one of only 5 RH drive models, looked and sounded fantastic.
Thrashing round Europe is what these things were made for!
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