RE: Tesla beats Taycan 'ring time...

[TheDrBrian]

ZesPak said:

davey83 said:

Good to see however in the retail world the ICE driver in a similar performing car, would have done another 4 laps of enjoyment by the time the EV had to wait for a charge *if available

1. Probably not true
2. A "similar performing car" would cost multiples to run
3. The charging infrastructure is an interesting one. It's getting a lot better, and the implementation is actually a lot simpler than what we've done with petrol stations. They will be a lot more ubiquitous because the are cheaper to set up and maintain.

Does the similar performing car need an interior and tyres that will last for 4 laps or can we wave those things like the tesla?

[davey83]

If you're looking to buy a nurburgring spec Tesla you're not short of a Bob or two, so the idea of running cost I don't feel is an issue. You go to the ring to have fun, not to lap for 8mins (regular quick driver) and then charge for 30-40mins and go again.

[cb31]

Was this lap time ever measured properly? I heard on a podcast that they were using synthetic lap times, splitting the laps into sectors and then taking the best sectors to add together to create the fastest potential lap, whereas Porsche just did a lap. Absolute bks if that is true but it may be wrong.

[another-steveb]

>Was this lap time ever measured properly?

I am not aware that Tesla has said anything at all about these runs so they can't be accused of pumping false information - the noise is being made by others.

From the German website posted previously, it implies a full lap hand timed, presumably from gantry or similar vantage point.

"Somehow they managed to get hold of a piece of free track and were able to burn twice 7:13 minutes into the asphalt from our local source, hand-stopped."

Of course that could mean that it did one lap in 14:26 rather than two laps of 7:13

[Antj]

Saw this test car going down the Dottinger Hoe the other week, it was a weird sensation of no engine noise and just whoosh is it went passed . It looked easily as quick as the GT3 RS MR that was also on track but just didn’t feel the same.

It’s a weird thing to see

[tertius]

TheDrBrian said:

ZesPak said:

davey83 said:

Good to see however in the retail world the ICE driver in a similar performing car, would have done another 4 laps of enjoyment by the time the EV had to wait for a charge *if available

1. Probably not true
2. A "similar performing car" would cost multiples to run
3. The charging infrastructure is an interesting one. It's getting a lot better, and the implementation is actually a lot simpler than what we've done with petrol stations. They will be a lot more ubiquitous because the are cheaper to set up and maintain.

Does the similar performing car need an interior and tyres that will last for 4 laps or can we wave those things like the tesla?

If the “similar performing car” were defined by, for example: “total time to complete 10 laps” than I suspect a similar performing car would be considerably cheaper.

[ZesPak]

davey83 said:

If you're looking to buy a nurburgring spec Tesla you're not short of a Bob or two, so the idea of running cost I don't feel is an issue. You go to the ring to have fun, not to lap for 8mins (regular quick driver) and then charge for 30-40mins and go again.

Granted, this tesla will need some work done, but if it's just a top spec model s, it's actually something with incredible performance that doesn't compromise on practicality and will be economical to run 30k miles /year.

As for the 8 min drive /30 min reloading, where do these numbers come from?

tertius said:

If the “similar performing car” were defined by, for example: “total time to complete 10 laps” than I suspect a similar performing car would be considerably cheaper.

Oh, we're playing that flute?
I'm pretty sure a BMW 120d is the best car round the ring. *

• if that was defined by doing 40 laps as fast as possible.

Edited by ZesPak on Wednesday 6th November 19:32

[tertius]

ZesPak said:

Oh, we're playing that flute?
I'm pretty sure a BMW 120d is the best car round the ring. *

• if that was defined by doing 40 laps as fast as possible.

Edited by ZesPak on Wednesday 6th November 19:32

I’m not playing any flute - personally I think if the Tesla has done a lap in the 8 minute region that is frankly f***ing amazing given the car it is, I’m just pointing out that “one” lap isn’t necessarily that representative, most especially if the second or third lap would be a different matter - on which point I have no idea if it would be different though I would certainly be interested to know.

[RacerMike]

tertius said:

ZesPak said:

Oh, we're playing that flute?
I'm pretty sure a BMW 120d is the best car round the ring. *

• if that was defined by doing 40 laps as fast as possible.

Edited by ZesPak on Wednesday 6th November 19:32

I’m not playing any flute - personally I think if the Tesla has done a lap in the 8 minute region that is frankly f***ing amazing given the car it is, I’m just pointing out that “one” lap isn’t necessarily that representative, most especially if the second or third lap would be a different matter - on which point I have no idea if it would be different though I would certainly be interested to know.

In fairness, most IC road cars will de-rate after a lap of the Ring. Issue previously with the Model S was that it would do so significantly after about 10 corners. They’ve clearly improved this massively with the M3 and the proposed Plaid updates to the Model S, but the issue I have is that the car they’re using is so far off production spec that it’s currently as relevant as Porsche sticking a Taycan badge on a 911 GTE car and claiming a 6min30sec lap time for it....

[tertius]

RacerMike said:

In fairness, most IC road cars will de-rate after a lap of the Ring. Issue previously with the Model S was that it would do so significantly after about 10 corners. They’ve clearly improved this massively with the M3 and the proposed Plaid updates to the Model S, but the issue I have is that the car they’re using is so far off production spec that it’s currently as relevant as Porsche sticking a Taycan badge on a 911 GTE car and claiming a 6min30sec lap time for it....

Not sure what you mean by “de-rate” - not something I recognise from any of the cars I have driven there, though to be fair more than two laps back to back was a rare occurrence.

[RacerMike]

tertius said:

RacerMike said:

In fairness, most IC road cars will de-rate after a lap of the Ring. Issue previously with the Model S was that it would do so significantly after about 10 corners. They’ve clearly improved this massively with the M3 and the proposed Plaid updates to the Model S, but the issue I have is that the car they’re using is so far off production spec that it’s currently as relevant as Porsche sticking a Taycan badge on a 911 GTE car and claiming a 6min30sec lap time for it....

Not sure what you mean by “de-rate” - not something I recognise from any of the cars I have driven there, though to be fair more than two laps back to back was a rare occurrence.

De-rate means cutting torque output for reasons of temperature usually. The more gentle you are, the later the de-rates will occur, but if we’re talking 10/10ths record pace, not an awful lot will do more than 1-2 laps flat out, especially if it’s forced induction.

Asking for 10mins of maximum performance from a road car is incredible taxing. You’re asking most cars to operate in a window they’ll operate at for 1% of their life, so usually they don’t tend to last very long up there. Normally aspirated cars usually fair better, and pretty much anything Porsche seems to cope incredibly well. Even my Focus RS was marginally cutting torque by end Karrusell on its first lap though for example...

[tertius]

RacerMike said:

De-rate means cutting torque output for reasons of temperature usually. The more gentle you are, the later the de-rates will occur, but if we’re talking 10/10ths record pace, not an awful lot will do more than 1-2 laps flat out, especially if it’s forced induction.

Asking for 10mins of maximum performance from a road car is incredible taxing. You’re asking most cars to operate in a window they’ll operate at for 1% of their life, so usually they don’t tend to last very long up there. Normally aspirated cars usually fair better, and pretty much anything Porsche seems to cope incredibly well. Even my Focus RS was marginally cutting torque by end Karrusell on its first lap though for example...

Suspect none of the cars I’ve driven there have been either new enough or driven hard enough for that to be a problem! Though certainly none have been forced induction.

[Gandahar]

This is a good summary of King Canute, sorry, King Elon

https://www.businessinsider.in/international/news/...

For a company trying to save the planet with efficient cars it is rather odd that they are going on twitter to show their cars are fastest around a track and fastest over a drag strip.

Non of which the average Tesla driver will do as they download the latest update that makes some extra special techno thing do something and then they can brag on the internet that Tesla is 10 years ahead of everyone else.

So why bother?

All this has done, for the ego of the boss, it has likely killed model S sales from November to whenever the Plaid 3 motor job comes out in Q2 2020, if it ever does.

As a point of note, doing the Nurburgring is supposed to increase car sales Elon ....

Edited by Gandahar on Sunday 10th November 20:45

[RobDickinson]

Massive amount of free press.

And Elon realises most people wont buy a crap car to save the planet, but people will buy a better car regardless of its green credentials.

[ZesPak]

RobDickinson said:

Massive amount of free press.

And Elon realises most people wont buy a crap car to save the planet, but people will buy a better car regardless of its green credentials.

Yep, people don't want a milkfloat.

But if that milkfloat beats their old rattlebox in any measure you can think off, it's harder to resist.

[jamoor]

Gandahar said:

This is a good summary of King Canute, sorry, King Elon

https://www.businessinsider.in/international/news/...

For a company trying to save the planet with efficient cars it is rather odd that they are going on twitter to show their cars are fastest around a track and fastest over a drag strip.

Non of which the average Tesla driver will do as they download the latest update that makes some extra special techno thing do something and then they can brag on the internet that Tesla is 10 years ahead of everyone else.

So why bother?

All this has done, for the ego of the boss, it has likely killed model S sales from November to whenever the Plaid 3 motor job comes out in Q2 2020, if it ever does.

As a point of note, doing the Nurburgring is supposed to increase car sales Elon ....

Edited by Gandahar on Sunday 10th November 20:45

Hardly ego, it's just business. Strive to beat the competition.

[anonymous-user]

RobDickinson said:

Massive amount of free press.

And Elon realises most people wont buy a crap car to save the planet, but people will buy a better car regardless of its green credentials.

Lol, loads have apparently bought the Tesla

They’re doomed.

[Gandahar]

So where's the onboard video then?

I know the Usa based fanbots know Tesla have shown "their leadership at the ring" by some tweets and internet reporting, but for people with half a brain, where's the 7:05 lap it should have done?

[RumbleOfThunder]

I suspect they're still not happy with the time and want to go back again after even more development.

[RumbleOfThunder]

Any confirmation of this?