Current "safe" speed(ing) limit on French autoroute?

Current "safe" speed(ing) limit on French autoroute?

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Discussion

Pan Pan Pan

5,090 posts

58 months

Thursday 10th October
quotequote all
768 said:
You're wrong because you think the driving of others excuses yours.

It doesn't, you aren't the traffic police, you don't have a calibrated speedo, you don't get to decide if they're exceeding the limit.
How many times do I have to point out that if people want to exceed the posted limit that is fine with me, as that is their business. However why, if I am travelling at the posted limit, in the centre lane of a 3 lane carriageway, whilst overtaking slower moving (limited to 60 mph) HGVs and other vehicles in the nearside lane, would I have to slow down from the NSL to the speed of the nearside lane so that I could slot into the space between two HGV`s, to accommodate someone who wants to exceed the NSL, when all they have to do is signal, move into the outer lane and go past.
What you seem to be supporting, is that idea, that people who are travelling legally at the legal limit, in the centre lane, must slow down so that they can slot between HGV`s in the nearside lane, to accommodate someone who wants to travel above the legal limit.
So that is a case of the legal driver having to change or modifying their progress, simply to facilitate someone, who wants to drive illegally. and that just cannot be right in anyone's book,
If I am in the outer lane of a 2 lane carriageway, and someone comes up behind who is travelling much faster than the posted limit, I get out of their way asap, but only when there is a SAFE space in the nearside lane to pull into, without having to slow too much from the legal limit to do so. I will not exceed the posted limit, and break the law to accommodate someone who does want to exceed the limit, Doing that is nonsensical, Getting a speeding ticket when `you' yourself want to exceed the posted limit is one thing. Getting a speeding ticket whilst `accommodating' someone `else' who wants to exceed the limit when you don't, is about the dumbest thing, that anyone could possibly do.

bolidemichael

1,426 posts

148 months

Thursday 10th October
quotequote all
Pan Pan Pan said:
768 said:
You're wrong because you think the driving of others excuses yours.

It doesn't, you aren't the traffic police, you don't have a calibrated speedo, you don't get to decide if they're exceeding the limit.
How many times do I have to point out that if people want to exceed the posted limit that is fine with me, as that is their business. However why, if I am travelling at the posted limit, in the centre lane of a 3 lane carriageway, whilst overtaking slower moving (limited to 60 mph) HGVs and other vehicles in the nearside lane, would I have to slow down from the NSL to the speed of the nearside lane so that I could slot into the space between two HGV`s, to accommodate someone who wants to exceed the NSL, when all they have to do is signal, move into the outer lane and go past.
What you seem to be supporting, is that idea, that people who are travelling legally at the legal limit, in the centre lane, must slow down so that they can slot between HGV`s in the nearside lane, to accommodate someone who wants to travel above the legal limit.
So that is a case of the legal driver having to change or modifying their progress, simply to facilitate someone, who wants to drive illegally. and that just cannot be right in anyone's book,
If I am in the outer lane of a 2 lane carriageway, and someone comes up behind who is travelling much faster than the posted limit, I get out of their way asap, but only when there is a SAFE space in the nearside lane to pull into, without having to slow too much from the legal limit to do so. I will not exceed the posted limit, and break the law to accommodate someone who does want to exceed the limit, Doing that is nonsensical, Getting a speeding ticket when `you' yourself want to exceed the posted limit is one thing. Getting a speeding ticket whilst `accommodating' someone `else' who wants to exceed the limit when you don't, is about the dumbest thing, that anyone could possibly do.
French drivers do what you won't all of the time. I think that their attitude is that, 'if the approaching vehicle is travelling faster and I'll impede then from making progress, I'll move over briefly then continue at my pace'.

feef

4,594 posts

130 months

Thursday 10th October
quotequote all
bolidemichael said:
French drivers do what you won't all of the time. I think that their attitude is that, 'if the approaching vehicle is travelling faster and I'll impede then from making progress, I'll move over briefly then continue at my pace'.
I have found that in the last 10-15 years, French motorway manners have changed somewhat and their lane discipline is sharper than ours now

21st Century Man

31,876 posts

195 months

Thursday 10th October
quotequote all
feef said:
bolidemichael said:
French drivers do what you won't all of the time. I think that their attitude is that, 'if the approaching vehicle is travelling faster and I'll impede then from making progress, I'll move over briefly then continue at my pace'.
I have found that in the last 10-15 years, French motorway manners have changed somewhat and their lane discipline is sharper than ours now
Two lanes for them, not three of course, and nowhere near the level of traffic.

bolidemichael

1,426 posts

148 months

Thursday 10th October
quotequote all
21st Century Man said:
feef said:
bolidemichael said:
French drivers do what you won't all of the time. I think that their attitude is that, 'if the approaching vehicle is travelling faster and I'll impede then from making progress, I'll move over briefly then continue at my pace'.
I have found that in the last 10-15 years, French motorway manners have changed somewhat and their lane discipline is sharper than ours now
Two lanes for them, not three of course, and nowhere near the level of traffic.
There are three in places; I agree with feef, in that the motorway discipline and courtesy of French drivers demonstrates a more advanced interpretation of the contribution that their lane discipline offers to the smooth flow of traffic. However, I too, have seen this diminish to UK levels of indiscipline on the approach to Paris on more congested roads.

Johnniem

2,368 posts

170 months

Thursday 10th October
quotequote all
boz1 said:
Johnniem said:
Using a detector is as illegal as speeding. That is all that is being said. Other than that, take the information and do what the hell you want, as everyone else will. I was merely showing that the advice someone was giving to 'use Waze' was as erroneous as telling them to keep on speeding.
I cannot understand the mentality of people like you who get a kick out of lying to other people they've never met on an internet forum. Waze is legal in France. If you want to be smart, and safe, use it.
I didn't say that using Waze was illegal, you read that into my comment that using a detector is illegal (see my comment above). Someone else stated earlier in the thread that people were updating Waze to indicate where detectors were.

dcb

5,342 posts

212 months

Thursday 10th October
quotequote all
feef said:
I have found that in the last 10-15 years, French motorway manners have changed somewhat and their lane discipline is sharper than ours now
I think French motorway manners are far superior to the British and have
been all the thirty odd years I've been driving over there.

It could have something to do with having motorway driving on the French driving test
or it could have something to do with French drivers engaging with their driving,
instead of the Brit-style "light doze in any lane I like".

If you want to see just about the best drivers in Europe, drive in Germany. Almost
mathematical precision. Like a lot of things in German public life, driving is a serious business.


Jaguar steve

5,747 posts

157 months

Thursday 10th October
quotequote all
21st Century Man said:
feef said:
bolidemichael said:
French drivers do what you won't all of the time. I think that their attitude is that, 'if the approaching vehicle is travelling faster and I'll impede then from making progress, I'll move over briefly then continue at my pace'.
I have found that in the last 10-15 years, French motorway manners have changed somewhat and their lane discipline is sharper than ours now
Two lanes for them, not three of course, and nowhere near the level of traffic.
Lower density of traffic on major routes has a lot to do with it.

Unlike the grotesquely overcrowded UK network nobody is forced to fight for and jealously guard every bit of road space and unlike a lot of Cockwhisks in the UK the French don't take being overtaken as a personal insult either.

bolidemichael

1,426 posts

148 months

Thursday 10th October
quotequote all
dcb said:
feef said:
I have found that in the last 10-15 years, French motorway manners have changed somewhat and their lane discipline is sharper than ours now
I think French motorway manners are far superior to the British and have
been all the thirty odd years I've been driving over there.

It could have something to do with having motorway driving on the French driving test
or it could have something to do with French drivers engaging with their driving,
instead of the Brit-style "light doze in any lane I like".

If you want to see just about the best drivers in Europe, drive in Germany. Almost
mathematical precision. Like a lot of things in German public life, driving is a serious business.
I disagree. French drivers are by far the most consistently aware across all of the (mostly) Western european countries across which I have driven many miles. The autobahn high speeds has soured the mentality of the Germans and turns them into absolute brutes.

Jaguar steve said:
21st Century Man said:
feef said:
bolidemichael said:
French drivers do what you won't all of the time. I think that their attitude is that, 'if the approaching vehicle is travelling faster and I'll impede then from making progress, I'll move over briefly then continue at my pace'.
I have found that in the last 10-15 years, French motorway manners have changed somewhat and their lane discipline is sharper than ours now
Two lanes for them, not three of course, and nowhere near the level of traffic.
Lower density of traffic on major routes has a lot to do with it.

Unlike the grotesquely overcrowded UK network nobody is forced to fight for and jealously guard every bit of road space and unlike a lot of Cockwhisks in the UK the French don't take being overtaken as a personal insult either.
Very neatly put. Witnessing drivers sitting unfailingly in 'outermost lane minus one' is unfailingly infuriating (duplication intended).

Pan Pan Pan

5,090 posts

58 months

Friday 11th October
quotequote all
bolidemichael said:
dcb said:
feef said:
I have found that in the last 10-15 years, French motorway manners have changed somewhat and their lane discipline is sharper than ours now
I think French motorway manners are far superior to the British and have
been all the thirty odd years I've been driving over there.

It could have something to do with having motorway driving on the French driving test
or it could have something to do with French drivers engaging with their driving,
instead of the Brit-style "light doze in any lane I like".

If you want to see just about the best drivers in Europe, drive in Germany. Almost
mathematical precision. Like a lot of things in German public life, driving is a serious business.
I disagree. French drivers are by far the most consistently aware across all of the (mostly) Western european countries across which I have driven many miles. The autobahn high speeds has soured the mentality of the Germans and turns them into absolute brutes.

Jaguar steve said:
21st Century Man said:
feef said:
bolidemichael said:
French drivers do what you won't all of the time. I think that their attitude is that, 'if the approaching vehicle is travelling faster and I'll impede then from making progress, I'll move over briefly then continue at my pace'.
I have found that in the last 10-15 years, French motorway manners have changed somewhat and their lane discipline is sharper than ours now
Two lanes for them, not three of course, and nowhere near the level of traffic.
Lower density of traffic on major routes has a lot to do with it.

Unlike the grotesquely overcrowded UK network nobody is forced to fight for and jealously guard every bit of road space and unlike a lot of Cockwhisks in the UK the French don't take being overtaken as a personal insult either.
Very neatly put. Witnessing drivers sitting unfailingly in 'outermost lane minus one' is unfailingly infuriating (duplication intended).
Very much this. French motorways are by comparison to the UK`s almost deserted, and by combining this, with their useful 130 kph dry road limit, huge distances can be easily, and comfortably covered in a day, without needing to exceed posted limits, especially when using the Sanef tag, to go through the peage`s without stopping. Even the HGV`s seem to practice the keep right except when overtaking rule efficiently.
In the UK where as mentioned above, most have to fight for road space, there is a requirement to make the best speed possible at all times, to allow for the inevitable traffic jams, accidents, spurious `smart' motorway speed limits etc, that almost invariably `will' lie ahead.

bolidemichael

1,426 posts

148 months

Friday 11th October
quotequote all
And it seems that smart motorways lie about obstacles ahead in order to trigger gantry cameras.

feef

4,594 posts

130 months

Friday 11th October
quotequote all
bolidemichael said:
And it seems that smart motorways lie about obstacles ahead in order to trigger gantry cameras.
Smart motorways are oblivious to obstacles. They monitor traffic speed and adjust the limits accordingly to keep it flowing.

Alerts about objects are set manually by the highways agency

Pan Pan Pan

5,090 posts

58 months

Sunday 13th October
quotequote all
bolidemichael said:
And it seems that smart motorways lie about obstacles ahead in order to trigger gantry cameras.
Whoever controls the `smart' motorways do `seem' to do this, I was crawling for around seven miles, on the anti clockwise M25 earlier this year, with `obstruction on carriageway' signs on the overhead gantries, I was expecting a major pile up, with dead bodies, and mashed vehicles strewn over the motorway. Turned out the cause was a Nissan Micra with a flat tyre on the hard shoulder.
Likewise a few weeks ago I saw a motorway patrol 4x4 towing a Vauxhall Corsa along the hard shoulder, on the opposite carriageway. Half a mile back from that, was a line of three motorway patrol vehicles holding the traffic back in a rolling road block, Behind these vehicles was a traffic jam that was about 6 miles long. Why FFS!
So it `seems' that unlike in France where serious road incidents are dealt with and sorted out very quickly, The Smart' motorway brief, seems to be to shut the motorways down as much as possible, and at every opportunity, even for the tiniest of issues.
They don't seem all that `smart' when you find you have been stuck in crawling traffic for miles, after an Aygo has lost one of its tyre valve caps in the carriageway!

bolidemichael

1,426 posts

148 months

Sunday 13th October
quotequote all
That's precisely what I was getting at. The decision making logic is disconnected.

phil y

352 posts

69 months

Sunday 13th October
quotequote all
French lane discipline goes out of the window with any more than 2 lanes in my experience.
Given the opportunity, they're just as capable as being middle lane drivers as those in the UK.

Macron

3,932 posts

113 months

Friday 1st November
quotequote all
Another 1,000 megacameras to be in service by 2020.

Speed, phone use, pick your fking nose, fined.

https://www.lemonde.fr/societe/article/2019/11/01/...

bolidemichael

1,426 posts

148 months

Friday 1st November
quotequote all
Macron said:
Another 1,000 megacameras to be in service by 2020.

Speed, phone use, pick your fking nose, fined.

https://www.lemonde.fr/societe/article/2019/11/01/...
Sigh, cruise at 135kph like a mindless drone. Bring on autonomy and put me to sleep gently.

braddo

6,473 posts

135 months

Friday 1st November
quotequote all
Macron said:
Another 1,000 megacameras to be in service by 2020.

Speed, phone use, pick your fking nose, fined.

https://www.lemonde.fr/societe/article/2019/11/01/...
Some eye-opening stats in that article.

Up to 75% of fixed speed cameras across the country were vandalised and/or put out of action by the gilets jaunes.

August 2019 road deaths increased nearly 20% in one year! I would think that is absolutely unprecedented in any G7/industrialised country.

Unfortunately, prima facie a strong correlation between speed cameras being destroyed and increased road deaths...

psi310398

5,206 posts

150 months

Friday 1st November
quotequote all
bolidemichael said:
Macron said:
Another 1,000 megacameras to be in service by 2020.

Speed, phone use, pick your fking nose, fined.

https://www.lemonde.fr/societe/article/2019/11/01/...
Sigh, cruise at 135kph like a mindless drone. Bring on autonomy and put me to sleep gently.
This punitive attitude explains why, when I drive to Italy, I turn north at Calais and get into Belgium asap, thence to Lux, Germany and Switzerland.

French business hasn't as a consequence seen much of my cash spent on fuel, hotels, restaurants etc on my at least monthly trips these past few years. I doubt that I'm alone.