RE: Focus ST vs. Golf TCR vs. Megane Trophy vs. i30 N

[SidewaysSi]

Elatino1 said:

SidewaysSi said:

FN2TypeR said:

Four great cars, what a time to be alive if you're in the hot hatch buying market at the moment!

I'd take the Hyundai, out of these four, but I wouldn't blame you for choosing one of the others instead - brilliant stuff.

Time to be alive? Really?! They are capable for sure but they aren't nearly as engaging as something older IME.

You can't compare them to an old car, an old car is old, this is a new car review.

Which of these cars have you driven and what older 5 door hatches are you comparing them to?

Edited by Elatino1 on Saturday 28th September 09:39

Was in reference to the post above. I have driven them all (Golf wasn't the TCR) bar the Focus. And had extensive time in the Civic R on track. Hyundai also on track.

Lots of variety these days but don't confuse with being an engaging car, particularly on road. An older Meg, Clio, DC2, 306 etc would kill these for on road fun.

But appreciate they don't have infotainment, safety etc. Not that we care about that sort of junk.

[G.Fraser]

Tell me about it, I hate my family car being safer than ever for my kids [rolls eyes]

[NJH]

Are the Hyundai and Golf really 40 mpg cars?

I ask because I have one of the previous generations of Megane, it struggles to do much better than 30 mpg and it seems newer models aren't really any better. That and the thing is also a bit of a money pit to maintain frankly puts me right off buying into renaultsport again.

If the Hyundai and Golf do genuinely do as claimed then this is an important point. Fundamentally these aren't weekend cars, people will buy them probably as their main means of transport, and thus will look at fuel economy, retained value, service costs & local support etc. all in the mix of that all important TCO.

[Darren93]

Good to see Ford back with the pack again, the mk3 seemed to be really lacking compared to the competition and forgotten about. Sat in the new Focus ST last week and it was lovely, didn't even have a nervous breakdown due to the "lesser quality plastics" compare to the usual VW stuff they seem to have built the car from the front to back and ran out of budget for some reasonably attractive rear lights if I had to critique anything.

Interesting to see how the Hyundai, VW and Ford have different characteristics from the diff as they all have the same e-LSD made by BorgWarner, it must be highly programmable.

[EyeHeartSpellin]

I would say it's very reasonable to be shocked at paying over £41k for a Golf GTi!

[Zarco]

NJH said:

Are the Hyundai and Golf really 40 mpg cars?

I ask because I have one of the previous generations of Megane, it struggles to do much better than 30 mpg and it seems newer models aren't really any better. That and the thing is also a bit of a money pit to maintain frankly puts me right off buying into renaultsport again.

If the Hyundai and Golf do genuinely do as claimed then this is an important point. Fundamentally these aren't weekend cars, people will buy them probably as their main means of transport, and thus will look at fuel economy, retained value, service costs & local support etc. all in the mix of that all important TCO.

I'd suggest if 40mpg is essential none of the current crop of hot hatch are for you. I guess it is achievable cruising at 50-60 on a motorway.

[csampo]

EyeHeartSpellin said:

I would say it's very reasonable to be shocked at paying over £41k for a Golf GTi!

Well about £35k after standard £5-6k discount, but even so it is too expensive.

[csampo]

Zarco said:

I'd suggest if 40mpg is essential none of the current crop of hot hatch are for you. I guess it is achievable cruising at 50-60 on a motorway.

Not around town or when pressing on of course, but on a motorway cruise at 70 they'll tickle 40.

[stongle]

EyeHeartSpellin said:

I would say it's very reasonable to be shocked at paying over £41k for a Golf GTi!

Except, a golf gti isn't 41k. I just picked up a new PP with a few options, from dealer stock for 32k 2 weeks ago.

[Montybaber]

If you cant beat them, exclude them

[anonymous-user]

SidewaysSi said:

Was in reference to the post above. I have driven them all (Golf wasn't the TCR) bar the Focus. And had extensive time in the Civic R on track. Hyundai also on track.

Lots of variety these days but don't confuse with being an engaging car, particularly on road. An older Meg, Clio, DC2, 306 etc would kill these for on road fun.

But appreciate they don't have infotainment, safety etc. Not that we care about that sort of junk.

Sorry but which of the cars you mentioned were 5door? Do you think any of those old cars would make as good a daily driver? I'm not sure I heard anyone say the new cars would be more engaging but better cars they are almost certainly by any measurable means.

Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 29th September 05:40

[nickfrog]

s m said:

£41.5k for the Golf as tested

Not sure the "as tested", is very relevant when none of the options are compulsory and wouldn't have made the car significantly worse.

I am gobsmacked how cheap those cars actually are. I just bought the Megane for £25,950 with a Cup chassis and track friendly / ride friendly 18'. It has 20hp less than the Trophy but that's the only difference. The spec is very generous, nothing else I needed. Absolute bargain IMO.

[CABC]

Elatino1 said:

SidewaysSi said:

FN2TypeR said:

Four great cars, what a time to be alive if you're in the hot hatch buying market at the moment!

I'd take the Hyundai, out of these four, but I wouldn't blame you for choosing one of the others instead - brilliant stuff.

Time to be alive? Really?! They are capable for sure but they aren't nearly as engaging as something older IME.

You can't compare them to an old car, an old car is old, this is a new car review.

Which of these cars have you driven and what older 5 door hatches are you comparing them to?

Edited by Elatino1 on Saturday 28th September 09:39

Journos have to enthuse about new cars, it's their business. most modern reviews have an enlightened statement tucked away somewhere hinting at today's problem, here it was "The relative lightness - it has 100kg on the Focus - bestows upon it an agility that doesn't require chassis trickery to create".

[Mastodon2]

csampo said:

Do agree that the TCR is over priced even after discounts; I nearly ordered one but then for MY2020 they made the optional Akrapovic exhaust standard fit and jacked the price by over 2k. Guess they must have a warehouse full of this 'option' that they need to use up!

You may be right about them needing to use the Akrapovics up. I had a GTi TCR as a rental in Germany earlier this year with the Akrapovic on it and it sounded great. It seemed an odd option on a rental car. I guess VW bought the exhausts in bulk and they won't fit future Golfs. I thought it was a fantastic car over all, very composed and assured in the bumper and more winding roads between little villages of the eastern part of Germany and sublime on the autobahn, very comfy and eager to stretch it's legs. As expected, sustained high speed autobahn cruising was absolutely ruinous on fuel, which made me glad I wasn't footing the petrol bill.

Still, if I was in the market for such a car, I'd find it hard to overlook the Type R, which is ultimately more fun, looks more exciting to me and is the best part of ten grand cheaper. Nice work PH on doing a group test without the Honda so the Focus had a chance to win. The guys at Ford who sign the cheques for the paid content will be happy.

[G.Fraser]

Indeed, even as a ‘Ford guy’ it’s a bit odd to have not included the CTR, which I fully expect would be come out as favourite given all of the perfectly justified praise it receives.

[Zetec-S]

Mastodon2 said:

Still, if I was in the market for such a car, I'd find it hard to overlook the Type R, which is ultimately more fun, looks more exciting to me and is the best part of ten grand cheaper.

How is the Type R ten grand cheaper?

[jason61c]

Montybaber said:

If you cant beat them, exclude them

Exactly, especially with all the paid for content ford has had on here.

[davea18h]

Am I the only one that likes the Honda Civic Type R? No, you wouldn't call it beautiful but it does it look refreshingly different from this lot and it's far better looking than the hideous previous generation one. For me, it was a mistake to leave it out of this test if you're looking for the best hot hatch.

[Hub]

Have Renault actually sold any RS Meganes? I haven't seen one on the road. You don't even see that many Meganes of any description. I expect Renault lost a load of customers with their poor reliability and build quality in the early '00s.

The Ford's looks are growing on me but it still looks quite dull.

[s m]

nickfrog said:

Not sure the "as tested", is very relevant when none of the options are compulsory and wouldn't have made the car significantly worse.

I am gobsmacked how cheap those cars actually are. I just bought the Megane for £25,950 with a Cup chassis and track friendly / ride friendly 18'. It has 20hp less than the Trophy but that's the only difference. The spec is very generous, nothing else I needed. Absolute bargain IMO.

You’re right - more a nod as to people who were amazed at 35k tag

As we all know, deals are available