RE: Next AMG C63 to go four-cylinder
Discussion
Welshbeef said:
I get the history of why it’s called a C63 but why did they make it a 6.2v8 instead of a 6.3v8?
It is a call back to the M100.Welshbeef said:
Clearly hot V TT changes everything
Also the S65 isn’t that a 6.0 ltr V12 bi turbo not a 6.5?
Confused for com
Marketing, same reason the 5.5 is a 600 over here.Also the S65 isn’t that a 6.0 ltr V12 bi turbo not a 6.5?
Confused for com
Yowzers, a lot of hate going on here....
I own a C63S and I have driven an A45 too (previous gen with the uprated engine - 376BHP). Both are impressive cars and expensive for that they are. My C63S for example had a $91k list price, which is frankly ridiculous - just shy of a 100k car that is 'just' a C-Class? Yeah, not seeing that! At that price, its pretty much up against a lot of serious stuff! The same goes with the A45, which has got even more expensive in its current gen!
But, a 500BHP rear-drive saloon car is pretty much getting to the limits of reasonable usage. Yes, you can probably go a little higher, but since the E63S is 600+, they opted for standard 4WD. Even the AMG GT doesnt have 600BHP for the majority of its range, and they have a bespoke chassis and aero to handle it. Taking a lowly C250 and nearly tripling the power? Yeah, there are limits on traction there.
My prediction is that it will likely still be expensive, but they MUST reduce the weight (the C63's are still much heavier than the M3/M4 models), add some form of 4WD (switchable) and bring up the MPG significantly. If that means it drops to a hybrid assisted 4 pot turbo, well it probably makes a lot of sense. Got to think about who is going to buy or lease one of these things - in Europe it will absolutely be driven by emissions and MPG, so downsizing makes sense. They will likely want to keep it super sharp, so reduction of weight makes a lot of sense, so downsize the engine and even in markets where engine size makes less sense, 4WD is now the de facto standard on high performance cars (for the 0-60 numbers to keep dropping).
It wont have the noise or sense of occasion, but have to think that its coming anyway. The market for approx $80k-$90k sports saloons is pretty small and Mercedes is in the market to sell things - in a decent number to make some money.
And the announcement hit the US last week about Mercedes no longer selling a manual car. The internet was full of people shouting about it, but when pushed, I doubt a single one of them would be interested in buying one - got to actually buy them for the manufacturers to keep making them. Dont buy them, they try something else! We can complain about the loss of the V8 in the C-class, but if no one buys them, its got to switch.....
I own a C63S and I have driven an A45 too (previous gen with the uprated engine - 376BHP). Both are impressive cars and expensive for that they are. My C63S for example had a $91k list price, which is frankly ridiculous - just shy of a 100k car that is 'just' a C-Class? Yeah, not seeing that! At that price, its pretty much up against a lot of serious stuff! The same goes with the A45, which has got even more expensive in its current gen!
But, a 500BHP rear-drive saloon car is pretty much getting to the limits of reasonable usage. Yes, you can probably go a little higher, but since the E63S is 600+, they opted for standard 4WD. Even the AMG GT doesnt have 600BHP for the majority of its range, and they have a bespoke chassis and aero to handle it. Taking a lowly C250 and nearly tripling the power? Yeah, there are limits on traction there.
My prediction is that it will likely still be expensive, but they MUST reduce the weight (the C63's are still much heavier than the M3/M4 models), add some form of 4WD (switchable) and bring up the MPG significantly. If that means it drops to a hybrid assisted 4 pot turbo, well it probably makes a lot of sense. Got to think about who is going to buy or lease one of these things - in Europe it will absolutely be driven by emissions and MPG, so downsizing makes sense. They will likely want to keep it super sharp, so reduction of weight makes a lot of sense, so downsize the engine and even in markets where engine size makes less sense, 4WD is now the de facto standard on high performance cars (for the 0-60 numbers to keep dropping).
It wont have the noise or sense of occasion, but have to think that its coming anyway. The market for approx $80k-$90k sports saloons is pretty small and Mercedes is in the market to sell things - in a decent number to make some money.
And the announcement hit the US last week about Mercedes no longer selling a manual car. The internet was full of people shouting about it, but when pushed, I doubt a single one of them would be interested in buying one - got to actually buy them for the manufacturers to keep making them. Dont buy them, they try something else! We can complain about the loss of the V8 in the C-class, but if no one buys them, its got to switch.....
off_again said:
Yowzers, a lot of hate going on here....
I own a C63S and I have driven an A45 too (previous gen with the uprated engine - 376BHP). Both are impressive cars and expensive for that they are. My C63S for example had a $91k list price, which is frankly ridiculous - just shy of a 100k car that is 'just' a C-Class? Yeah, not seeing that! At that price, its pretty much up against a lot of serious stuff! The same goes with the A45, which has got even more expensive in its current gen!
People keep buying them. Manufacturers are always looking to get more margin and they're looking to confirm to performance and emissions expectations. If they're able to produce a C class with an already existing and wider applied engine architecture which helps them achieve margin, performance and emissions goals then they will. They don't have a hot 6 to speak of but they do have a hot 4 and there's a technology to fill the three aforesaid requirements - hybrid!I own a C63S and I have driven an A45 too (previous gen with the uprated engine - 376BHP). Both are impressive cars and expensive for that they are. My C63S for example had a $91k list price, which is frankly ridiculous - just shy of a 100k car that is 'just' a C-Class? Yeah, not seeing that! At that price, its pretty much up against a lot of serious stuff! The same goes with the A45, which has got even more expensive in its current gen!
If you want the sound they'll pipe it in through the speakers - you can then choose what you want; burbling V8, screaming V10 F1, Lewis Hamilton delivering a monologue about social and conservation issues.....
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
rodericb said:
They don't have a hot 6 to speak of but they do have a hot 4 and there's a technology to fill the three aforesaid requirements - hybrid!
The C43 has a V6.MightyBadger said:
Tim bo said:
I bought a brand new C63 coupé last year.
It's on a 3 year lease, so will be up by 2021
Bought or leased?It's on a 3 year lease, so will be up by 2021
PCP'd, to be precise. Bought is misleading in that context I suppose.
And now that lease is almost up, and I'm not sure what indulgence to replace the C63 with, or indeed pay it off and keep it.
Tim bo said:
Heh, that was quoting me from over a year ago.
PCP'd, to be precise. Bought is misleading in that context I suppose.
And now that lease is almost up, and I'm not sure what indulgence to replace the C63 with, or indeed pay it off and keep it.
Keep it why expose yourself to a new very high monthly cost when most of the time the car is sitting on the drive. PCP'd, to be precise. Bought is misleading in that context I suppose.
And now that lease is almost up, and I'm not sure what indulgence to replace the C63 with, or indeed pay it off and keep it.
rodericb said:
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
rodericb said:
They don't have a hot 6 to speak of but they do have a hot 4 and there's a technology to fill the three aforesaid requirements - hybrid!
The C43 has a V6.off_again said:
And 429BHP in the '53' variant with the hybrid boost functionality. Not to be sniffed at and I am reliably told that the inline 6 is very tunable and flexible - so there is a lot of capability and power, and they do already have a hybrid turbo 6!
But the A45 is a race engine built for a series that was scrapped. The V6 isn’t hence far more advanced components and technology. eldar said:
Terminator X said:
Lol open your eyes ffs and just admit cruise ships are bad 
Shame Greta isn't crying about people cruising the Med.
TX.
She's laughing. Cruises on the Med or just about anywhere stopped six months ago......Shame Greta isn't crying about people cruising the Med.
TX.
CS Garth said:
eldar said:
Terminator X said:
Lol open your eyes ffs and just admit cruise ships are bad
Shame Greta isn't crying about people cruising the Med.
TX.
She's laughing. Cruises on the Med or just about anywhere stopped six months ago......Shame Greta isn't crying about people cruising the Med.
TX.
Can they afford another 6 months of expensive warm standby? Share prices not looking too rosy.
The upside is the unspent cruise money might be going on halo cars instead.
Welshbeef said:
But the A45 is a race engine built for a series that was scrapped. The V6 isn’t hence far more advanced components and technology.
Doesn't matter which way you cut it, a 4 cylinder engine in an £80k (as it will inevitably be) car renowned previously for its charismatic engine, is not going to attract people in the same way.Porsche at least saw that with the Cayman.
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
Doesn't matter which way you cut it, a 4 cylinder engine in an £80k (as it will inevitably be) car renowned previously for its charismatic engine, is not going to attract people in the same way.
Porsche at least saw that with the Cayman.
True. Certainly for us. The C Class is a tremendously unattractive vehicle with the interior of an 80s discount, Korean home stereo and their fundamental reason to exist is as commercial transport, either as fleet cars or Ubers. It’s that wallopping V8 that transforms a remarkably unappealing commercial vehicle into something extremely appealing. It’s the crassness and thunder that only a large CC engine can achieve that makes it special. A pure EV can be faster and cheaper to run so long as you stick to the path defined by where the ubiquitous electricity breaks ground or if you really enjoy hanging out at service stations etc. A great 4 pot with a good hybrid system can also make for a better car but both are very different from a big V8. Porsche at least saw that with the Cayman.
It doesn’t make someone a ‘Luddite’ to voice that opinion or to state that in the C Class package with C63 on the back it is that V8 which makes it desirable over other vehicles. It’s so immensely backward to repeatedly have tooth suckers wail that anyone who doesn’t bow and worship at every single step forward mankind makes must be fitted into a rigid box and defined with a label. And frankly, the irony is not lost with regards to that simplistic, intolerant and inflexible form of behaviour. It’s always best left at KwikFit, in the builder’s van or down in the IT basement.
However, while we may look at the C63 and consider the old fashioned V8 is what turns a minicab into something desirable with a specific character I do wonder just how many of Mercedes’ typical C63 customers will even remotely object so long as it makes lots of farty noises and can still be slammed up and down a mid town highstreet with the driver’s eeny weeny, sculptured head half sticking above the door line?
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