Nissan Leaf cheaper to run than a bike....Really?

Nissan Leaf cheaper to run than a bike....Really?

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E65Ross

Original Poster:

23,681 posts

160 months

Monday 28th October
quotequote all
Having a conversation about someone who thinks his Nissan Leaf is cheaper to run than cycling is. He said the cost of food means it costs more than cycling. I mentioned about depreciation, insurance etc etc but he's adamant that it's cheaper. I then asked about E-Bikes but he just said the Leaf was cheaper.

I figured.....13p/kWh, so about £5.20 to charge a 40kWh Leaf....175 miles so about 3p/mile in fuel costs.....

Thoughts?

The_Jackal

4,275 posts

145 months

Monday 28th October
quotequote all
Just insurance and depreciation top anything a bike will cost. Plus you dont have to charge your bike.
I think the guy just likes spouting stuff that makes him feel better. Hasnt quite engaged his brain.
You want to tell him what those batteries do to the environment and the process to make them.
Isnt the Leaf known as one of the worst deteriorating electric cars in terms of how the motors and batteries drop off in efficiency. And good luck trying to sell a secondhand one.

BOR

4,012 posts

203 months

Monday 28th October
quotequote all
Ignoring depreciation/interest etc, then purely in terms of servicing and repairs, I think it's true.

Bike parts are shockingly expensive, but because it's a hobby, we don't complain.

Very high end cassettes are over 400€, tyres can be 50€ each, and don't necessarily last that long.

Particularly on an MTB, a lot of the parts are consumable, or need servicing relatively frequently. I can do it all myself, but adding in labour at a local bike shop would make it even worse.

E65Ross

Original Poster:

23,681 posts

160 months

Monday 28th October
quotequote all
The_Jackal said:
Just insurance and depreciation top anything a bike will cost. Plus you dont have to charge your bike.
I think the guy just likes spouting stuff that makes him feel better. Hasnt quite engaged his brain.
You want to tell him what those batteries do to the environment and the process to make them.
Isnt the Leaf known as one of the worst deteriorating electric cars in terms of how the motors and batteries drop off in efficiency. And good luck trying to sell a secondhand one.
Well he is saying the cost of food is more per mile than the cost of electricity....

TheInternet

3,001 posts

111 months

Monday 28th October
quotequote all
BOR said:
Bike parts are shockingly expensive, but because it's a hobby, we don't complain.

Very high end cassettes are over 400€, tyres can be 50€ each, and don't necessarily last that long.
Yes, you can pay a lot, but you'd need a reasonable like-for-like comparison of cheap boggo parts.

Dannbodge

1,675 posts

69 months

Monday 28th October
quotequote all
TheInternet said:
BOR said:
Bike parts are shockingly expensive, but because it's a hobby, we don't complain.

Very high end cassettes are over 400€, tyres can be 50€ each, and don't necessarily last that long.
Yes, you can pay a lot, but you'd need a reasonable like-for-like comparison of cheap boggo parts.
Which is why most people have a commuting bike which uses lower spec components and are much cheaper to replace/more hard wearing.

Abarth595turismo

246 posts

13 months

Monday 28th October
quotequote all
E65Ross said:
The_Jackal said:
Just insurance and depreciation top anything a bike will cost. Plus you dont have to charge your bike.
I think the guy just likes spouting stuff that makes him feel better. Hasnt quite engaged his brain.
You want to tell him what those batteries do to the environment and the process to make them.
Isnt the Leaf known as one of the worst deteriorating electric cars in terms of how the motors and batteries drop off in efficiency. And good luck trying to sell a secondhand one.
Well he is saying the cost of food is more per mile than the cost of electricity....
So he doesn’t eat?

Gareth79

4,620 posts

194 months

Monday 28th October
quotequote all
BOR said:
Ignoring depreciation/interest etc, then purely in terms of servicing and repairs, I think it's true.

Bike parts are shockingly expensive, but because it's a hobby, we don't complain.

Very high end cassettes are over 400€, tyres can be 50€ each, and don't necessarily last that long.

Particularly on an MTB, a lot of the parts are consumable, or need servicing relatively frequently. I can do it all myself, but adding in labour at a local bike shop would make it even worse.
An Ultegra cassette is £40 and would probably last 5,000 miles+?

Few people would commute on an MTB that eats €400 cassettes, the same as few people commute in a Ferrari.


E65Ross

Original Poster:

23,681 posts

160 months

Monday 28th October
quotequote all
Gareth79 said:
An Ultegra cassette is £40 and would probably last 5,000 miles+?

Few people would commute on an MTB that eats €400 cassettes, the same as few people commute in a Ferrari.
Ultegra cassette can last way longer than that if looked after. My cassette must be on double that mileage and is showing very, very little signs of wear. I replace the chains when required and actually use wax with molybdenum disulphide and PTFE because it keeps the chain much cleaner.

JPJPJP

7,861 posts

116 months

Monday 28th October
quotequote all
3p per mile versus what?

A quick google (could be wrong)

http://bikecalculator.com/ says 17 miles is 516 calories for a fairly nondescript rider

Sugar is 56p / kg in tesco and 516 calories is 129g = 7.2p

So 7.2p for 17 miles = 0.42p per mile



E65Ross

Original Poster:

23,681 posts

160 months

Monday 28th October
quotequote all
Abarth595turismo said:
E65Ross said:
The_Jackal said:
Just insurance and depreciation top anything a bike will cost. Plus you dont have to charge your bike.
I think the guy just likes spouting stuff that makes him feel better. Hasnt quite engaged his brain.
You want to tell him what those batteries do to the environment and the process to make them.
Isnt the Leaf known as one of the worst deteriorating electric cars in terms of how the motors and batteries drop off in efficiency. And good luck trying to sell a secondhand one.
Well he is saying the cost of food is more per mile than the cost of electricity....
So he doesn’t eat?
hehe

his argument is more about the fact you need to eat more. His argument to my "it doesn't cost 3p/mile plus depreciation etc" was "how much does a sandwich cost and how far does that get you?" rolleyes

SAS Tom

2,611 posts

122 months

Monday 28th October
quotequote all
JPJPJP said:
3p per mile versus what?

A quick google (could be wrong)

http://bikecalculator.com/ says 17 miles is 516 calories for a fairly nondescript rider

Sugar is 56p / kg in tesco and 516 calories is 129g = 7.2p

So 7.2p for 17 miles = 0.42p per mile
Yeah because it’s well known that cyclists only eat granulated sugar.

cml24

323 posts

95 months

Monday 28th October
quotequote all
I was actually looking at the cost of bike parts as I hope to be commuting by bike soon. It did suprise me, and certainly if you already own a car it might well be true! Ten quid of oil in ten thousand miles vs many inner tubes, brakes and chains...

Obviously if you're adding depreciation I can see the sums working, or it would have to be a very expensive bike. Although my commuter car and insurance was less than the commuter bike I would buy!

Probably only true in very wierd circumstances and certainly not for a new leaf including depreciation!

BenGismo

271 posts

116 months

Monday 28th October
quotequote all
SAS Tom said:
Yeah because it’s well known that cyclists only eat granulated sugar.
lol...of course not - thats just spoiling yourself

I find Tesco's lard offers more calories per £cost and so it makes my fuel costs closer to 0.24p/mile.

Mr Ted

235 posts

55 months

Monday 28th October
quotequote all
Some electricity suppliers offer discounted rates for charging electric vehicles and some bundle a free mileage allowance as well which gives a lower rate than the typical 13p/kWh domestic rate.

Battery data gathered by Nissan since the launch of the Leaf in 2010 shows a capacity of 80% after 9 years which is much better than the worst case specifications given by the cell manufacturers but then the Leaf does have a really good BMS (Battery Management System).


Some Gump

11,146 posts

134 months

Monday 28th October
quotequote all
Dannbodge said:
TheInternet said:
BOR said:
Bike parts are shockingly expensive, but because it's a hobby, we don't complain.

Very high end cassettes are over 400€, tyres can be 50€ each, and don't necessarily last that long.
Yes, you can pay a lot, but you'd need a reasonable like-for-like comparison of cheap boggo parts.
Which is why most people have a commuting bike which uses lower spec components and are much cheaper to replace/more hard wearing.
Shimano 10 speed chain 8 quid
10 speed casette 20 quid.
Schwalbe lugano tyres 8 quid each.

I think he's using some man maths there!

Daveyraveygravey

1,532 posts

132 months

Monday 28th October
quotequote all
He's trying to justify spending hard earned cash on a POS non-car like the Leaf 🙄 The propaganda about electric cars is outrageous.

Has he thought about the health benefits of riding a bike? Or the fact its quicker in the city? Or enjoying the journey?

E65Ross

Original Poster:

23,681 posts

160 months

Monday 28th October
quotequote all
Daveyraveygravey said:
He's trying to justify spending hard earned cash on a POS non-car like the Leaf ?? The propaganda about electric cars is outrageous.

Has he thought about the health benefits of riding a bike? Or the fact its quicker in the city? Or enjoying the journey?
I did say to him at the end that even if the bike does cost more I'd happily spend more so I didn't have to drive around in a Leaf hehe

Welshbeef

38,406 posts

146 months

Monday 28th October
quotequote all
Dannbodge said:
Which is why most people have a commuting bike which uses lower spec components and are much cheaper to replace/more hard wearing.
Surely you’d buy one of those Tesco or Halfords £50 bikes and run it until it breaks which I’d wager is years


Electricity cheaper than food - is he for real

DS240

3,061 posts

166 months

Monday 28th October
quotequote all
BOR said:
Ignoring depreciation/interest etc, then purely in terms of servicing and repairs, I think it's true.

Bike parts are shockingly expensive, but because it's a hobby, we don't complain.

Very high end cassettes are over 400€, tyres can be 50€ each, and don't necessarily last that long.

Particularly on an MTB, a lot of the parts are consumable, or need servicing relatively frequently. I can do it all myself, but adding in labour at a local bike shop would make it even worse.
What cassettes are you buying?!

Even Dura Ace is half that.

Taking extremes isn’t a good comparison. Any reasonable bike is never going be more expensive to run than a car, especially a leaf. Initial values alone kills that argument even on a cheap lease.