RE: Lotus Esprit Turbo | The Brave Pill
Discussion
Mark_Blanchard said:
Stunning car
A Cat C from 25 years ago wouldn't bother me in the slightest (as someone mentioned already - if there were problems stemming from this, I think they would have been well sorted by now!). And as for someone else attributing the peeling paint to the dodgy Cat C repair? It's a 25 year old Lotus.......... I'm kinda glad to see peeling paint, as at least I know it's probably original and where the damage WASN'T! 
Funny enough, I see references to 944's here - I was in the exact same situation bang on 18 years ago when I was looking for a 30th birthday present to myself. I tortured myself looking at Esprit's, but couldn't find the stomach to pull the trigger on one, so I bought a 944 S2 Cabriolet...... and I still have it 18 years later (though I'd still love an Esprit!)
Oh, and another shout out to George from the SOUP Classic Motoring YT channel - his stop motion film work is outstanding, he really does need more subscribers! https://www.youtube.com/user/TheeKookTube/featured
Funny enough, I see references to 944's here - I was in the exact same situation bang on 18 years ago when I was looking for a 30th birthday present to myself. I tortured myself looking at Esprit's, but couldn't find the stomach to pull the trigger on one, so I bought a 944 S2 Cabriolet...... and I still have it 18 years later (though I'd still love an Esprit!)
Oh, and another shout out to George from the SOUP Classic Motoring YT channel - his stop motion film work is outstanding, he really does need more subscribers! https://www.youtube.com/user/TheeKookTube/featured
richthebike said:
BigChiefmuffinAgain said:
People who say that they have had a Lotus or TVR or whatever for 10 years etc and nothing much has gone wrong and how you should ignore the stories etc miss the point. A car is a collection of thousands of bits designed to work with each other. If some of those bits are outside of spec, things start to go wrong. Unreliable cars are that way because they were built to a loose spec or tolerances.
By the law of averages, you will get some where most of the parts are within spec, and these will, in general, be reliable. The problem is that not many cars will be like this, which is why bad reputations are formed. Count yourself lucky you have a good one...
I don't think you mean law of averages...By the law of averages, you will get some where most of the parts are within spec, and these will, in general, be reliable. The problem is that not many cars will be like this, which is why bad reputations are formed. Count yourself lucky you have a good one...
Maybe you meant the law of large numbers?
Or something else.
Law of averages wiki:
"The law of averages is the fallacious belief that a particular outcome or event is inevitable or certain simply because it is statistically possible.[1][2] Depending on context or application it can be considered a valid common-sense observation or a misunderstanding of probability. This notion can lead to the gambler's fallacy when one becomes convinced that a particular outcome must come soon simply because it has not occurred recently (e.g. believing that because three consecutive coin flips yielded heads, the next coin flip must be virtually guaranteed to be tails).
As invoked in everyday life, the "law" usually reflects wishful thinking or a poor understanding of statistics rather than any mathematical principle."
humphra said:
richthebike said:
BigChiefmuffinAgain said:
People who say that they have had a Lotus or TVR or whatever for 10 years etc and nothing much has gone wrong and how you should ignore the stories etc miss the point. A car is a collection of thousands of bits designed to work with each other. If some of those bits are outside of spec, things start to go wrong. Unreliable cars are that way because they were built to a loose spec or tolerances.
By the law of averages, you will get some where most of the parts are within spec, and these will, in general, be reliable. The problem is that not many cars will be like this, which is why bad reputations are formed. Count yourself lucky you have a good one...
I don't think you mean law of averages...By the law of averages, you will get some where most of the parts are within spec, and these will, in general, be reliable. The problem is that not many cars will be like this, which is why bad reputations are formed. Count yourself lucky you have a good one...
Maybe you meant the law of large numbers?
Or something else.
Law of averages wiki:
"The law of averages is the fallacious belief that a particular outcome or event is inevitable or certain simply because it is statistically possible.[1][2] Depending on context or application it can be considered a valid common-sense observation or a misunderstanding of probability. This notion can lead to the gambler's fallacy when one becomes convinced that a particular outcome must come soon simply because it has not occurred recently (e.g. believing that because three consecutive coin flips yielded heads, the next coin flip must be virtually guaranteed to be tails).
As invoked in everyday life, the "law" usually reflects wishful thinking or a poor understanding of statistics rather than any mathematical principle."
That great knowledge base
That is edited by and added to by..... any Tom, Dick or Harry.
Not really empirical then...
As others have said, a Cat C from way back when should hold no fears.
The Aircon? Could be very expensive to fix, if it’s not been run regularly then any of the pipes could be leaking. Or the condenser. Or the dryer. Etc.
Like a couple of other posters I owned a TVR, which people are quick to ridicule. I never ever had one issue with mine, and I’d suggest that an esprit that has had proper maintenance should be equally reliable.
Personally I wouldn’t ‘want’ this particular example, I’d look for an S4S, Championship Edition or at a stretch a V8GT.
I’m sure that it will find a new owner, but they will need to go in with their eyes open imho.
I have always loved the Esprit, but so far have not owned one. Tried to buy two Pearl White Mid 80s Turbos, but both were too £ expensive.
In the very early 1980s, I lived in Chingford, a local had an Essex Esprit turbo, well one day, two up, he lost it on the Ridgeway on a left hander in a big way. The car went into a hawthorn tree on the drivers side door. My Mum drove past, just after it happened and bits of the Esprit we're laying everywhere and also a pair of trainers.
A Late pal ( R.I.P Darren ) was given the job of recovering the car back to the large garage where he worked. He told me that the drivers seat was half the width it should have been. The driver survived, badly injured, but walked with a stick after wards. His passenger got out un injured.
Just over ten years later, Esprit driver killed himself in a green ZR1 Corvette on the Epping New Rd. His passenger got out ok.
I still hanker after a Pearl White or an Essex Turbo though.
In the very early 1980s, I lived in Chingford, a local had an Essex Esprit turbo, well one day, two up, he lost it on the Ridgeway on a left hander in a big way. The car went into a hawthorn tree on the drivers side door. My Mum drove past, just after it happened and bits of the Esprit we're laying everywhere and also a pair of trainers.
A Late pal ( R.I.P Darren ) was given the job of recovering the car back to the large garage where he worked. He told me that the drivers seat was half the width it should have been. The driver survived, badly injured, but walked with a stick after wards. His passenger got out un injured.
Just over ten years later, Esprit driver killed himself in a green ZR1 Corvette on the Epping New Rd. His passenger got out ok.
I still hanker after a Pearl White or an Essex Turbo though.
No ideas for a name said:
Even the advert says " Large amount of history and bills."
And probably more to come?
Actually, like the previous poster, it would be the Cat C that would say " a no from me" unless I had full details.
I can give a bit of info on this Lotus and the accident.And probably more to come?
Actually, like the previous poster, it would be the Cat C that would say " a no from me" unless I had full details.
It was owned by a BP Wytch farm Oil engineer , in 1995 in Dorset , he was travelling along this section of Moreton road in the wet , and spun the car over a blind crest , this road has some notorious blind crests , he hit an oncoming car , if i recall it was the front side clam shell that took the impact , my work colleague David Birch was travelling behind and witnessed the accident , from the photos the damage did not look too bad , bonnet , wing front valence I know the insurance company paid out as he replaced this Esprit with blue S4
another PHer on here adetuano ....will also probably remember the accident and may remember the engineer involved
hope this helps
edit remembered engineer was a chap called chris brown
https://www.google.com/maps/@50.721438,-2.1147587,...
Edited by DBSV8 on Sunday 3rd November 17:47
richthebike said:
I don't think you mean law of averages...
Maybe you meant the law of large numbers?
Or something else.
Law of averages wiki:
"The law of averages is the fallacious belief that a particular outcome or event is inevitable or certain simply because it is statistically possible.[1][2] Depending on context or application it can be considered a valid common-sense observation or a misunderstanding of probability. This notion can lead to the gambler's fallacy when one becomes convinced that a particular outcome must come soon simply because it has not occurred recently (e.g. believing that because three consecutive coin flips yielded heads, the next coin flip must be virtually guaranteed to be tails).
As invoked in everyday life, the "law" usually reflects wishful thinking or a poor understanding of statistics rather than any mathematical principle."
Yes, thanks for that "correction". I actually have a degree in maths from many moons ago and yes a more accurate summation would be that their products have a greater variance around the mean which would mean a higher probability of products being outside a region of tolerance within a normal distribution. And yes, a 6 sigma analysis, beloved of GE, would be appropriate. Maybe you meant the law of large numbers?
Or something else.
Law of averages wiki:
"The law of averages is the fallacious belief that a particular outcome or event is inevitable or certain simply because it is statistically possible.[1][2] Depending on context or application it can be considered a valid common-sense observation or a misunderstanding of probability. This notion can lead to the gambler's fallacy when one becomes convinced that a particular outcome must come soon simply because it has not occurred recently (e.g. believing that because three consecutive coin flips yielded heads, the next coin flip must be virtually guaranteed to be tails).
As invoked in everyday life, the "law" usually reflects wishful thinking or a poor understanding of statistics rather than any mathematical principle."
But speaking as one who collected a Cerbera new from the factory back in the day and experienced for myself their "quality control" the phrase law of averages is probably sufficient....
BigChiefmuffinAgain said:
Yes, thanks for that "correction". I actually have a degree in maths from many moons ago and yes a more accurate summation would be that their products have a greater variance around the mean which would mean a higher probability of products being outside a region of tolerance within a normal distribution. And yes, a 6 sigma analysis, beloved of GE, would be appropriate.
But speaking as one who collected a Cerbera new from the factory back in the day and experienced for myself their "quality control" the phrase law of averages is probably sufficient....
Just pointing out a thing, I wasn't having a go. I think the more relevant distribution here is the bath tub curve. Not necessarily relating to actual reliability, but to the people who post on the net. As you say, you mostly hear polarised opinions, because people who are on forums have either had an horrific experience, or are defacto brand ambassadors. But speaking as one who collected a Cerbera new from the factory back in the day and experienced for myself their "quality control" the phrase law of averages is probably sufficient....
I started my career getting Lean 6 Sigma qualified, and its stood me in good stead. Love some stats. Sadly, I don't think TVR or Lotus were ever at sufficient scale for 6 sigma to be relevant!
richthebike said:
Just pointing out a thing, I wasn't having a go. I think the more relevant distribution here is the bath tub curve. Not necessarily relating to actual reliability, but to the people who post on the net. As you say, you mostly hear polarised opinions, because people who are on forums have either had an horrific experience, or are defacto brand ambassadors.
I started my career getting Lean 6 Sigma qualified, and its stood me in good stead. Love some stats. Sadly, I don't think TVR or Lotus were ever at sufficient scale for 6 sigma to be relevant!
If you want perceived quality, buy a Porsche. I started my career getting Lean 6 Sigma qualified, and its stood me in good stead. Love some stats. Sadly, I don't think TVR or Lotus were ever at sufficient scale for 6 sigma to be relevant!
blade7 said:
yonex said:
If you want perceived quality, buy a Porsche.
I did. In the 10 years I've owned it the only failure has been a 25 year old fuel pressure regulator. SidewaysSi said:
blade7 said:
yonex said:
If you want perceived quality, buy a Porsche.
I did. In the 10 years I've owned it the only failure has been a 25 year old fuel pressure regulator. g7jhp said:
Always had a soft spot for these which were amazing cars back in the day.
My football manager used to take us to games in his Excel and then got the Esprit Turbo SE. They still look exotic.
The gearbox and electrics always seemed to be playing up.
Never been brave enough to pull the trigger and buy one. Had an Elise before moving on to better build older aircooled Porsche.
I had that copy of Fast Lane too (imagine being allowed to call a magazine that now).My football manager used to take us to games in his Excel and then got the Esprit Turbo SE. They still look exotic.
The gearbox and electrics always seemed to be playing up.
Never been brave enough to pull the trigger and buy one. Had an Elise before moving on to better build older aircooled Porsche.
I wanted one then and I still do. Unfortunately I seem to have found that somehow I have become an ‘adult with responsibilities and priorities’. Still, they can’t stop me dreaming.
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