The truth about tyre repairs.

The truth about tyre repairs.

Author
Discussion

RogerDodger

1,607 posts

42 months

Wednesday 13th November
quotequote all
nitrodave said:
Gojira said:
NotBenny said:
rightly or wrongly, you'll never get a sensible answer. The "experts" are the manufacturers or retailers who want you to buy more tyres, and don't want to get a bad rep for fixing tyres that subsequently fail. They play it safe. No, not all "dodgy" repairs (overlapping patches, same quarter of tyre, close to sidewall) will fail, but some will. You might want to take the risk, some people won't.

My philosophy is that st happens. I've had 2 punctures in about 15 years of driving, neither repairable, so my total motoring costs are about £250-300 more than they otherwise would have been. Drop in the ocean really.
"Dodgy" repairs do fail...

SWMBO uses a walking stick a fair bit now, because a tight git overlapped patches on a bike front inner tube, and the tube split in the middle of a bend at 50, back in the late 70's, leaving her with a broken ankle that almost healed fine...

A "dodgy" repair might not fail, but if it does, will you be happy to face the possible consequences?
A car tyre repair is a bit different to the inner tube in the front wheel of a motorbike. The former I would do - the latter certainly not
Repairing motorbike tyres is not unusual at all. Getting bike punctures is so common some tyres come with a short puncture replacement guarantee. I've bought a tyre and got a puncture a few miles from leaving the garage. They can cost £100s each.

Tyre repairing is not some dodgy art. It's rubber, you plug it, under pressure the plug is pushed tight, and after a while it merges with the true rubber, much like self amalgamating tape.

I also ride off road and it is VERY common to bung tyres with the dog-turd repairs - the ones you push in with a spike. We ride on road at least 50% of the time. Madness, all of it!



Edited by RogerDodger on Wednesday 13th November 08:59

Liamjrhodes

140 posts

89 months

Wednesday 13th November
quotequote all
as said there is nothing wrong with repaired tyres!
Its all scare mongering by the tyre companies to get you to spend more money!

I would of thought the modern way would be to encourage repair which reduces the waste.
I have happily repaired punctures on a variety of cars I have owned never with any problems

irocfan

21,236 posts

138 months

Wednesday 13th November
quotequote all
gizlaroc said:
There are certain things I won't do, like run different tyres front and rear, especially on RWD cars, but doing a puncture repair I can't see the issue.
Do you mean different brands front and rear or different sizes?

gizlaroc

13,193 posts

172 months

Wednesday 13th November
quotequote all
irocfan said:
Do you mean different brands front and rear or different sizes?
Different tread patterns.

I have had it a few times now, on BMWs where they have become a bit of a twitchy mess with different tyres front and rear. Traction light coming on far too often on damp roundabouts to the back end kicking out when going to overtake.

The more powerful the car the more it is noticeable, but once you have had it you can tell the signs even on a 320d for example.


The real eye opener, which was the thing that got me to realise how much it can affect things, was with the M3 CSL.
It was scary bad.
BMW had it in, swapped control arms, dampers, springs, did a 4 wheel alignment half a dozen times and couldn't work it out.
They then called me to say someone was in the Norwich workshop from an Essex branch covering holidays who raced M3s and they were talking about my car to him, they said to pop down and he would take it out.
We came off the slip road, got to the next roundabout and came off the first exit and he said "You have mismatched tyres front and rear."
I was adamant I had Pilot Sports all round.
We pulled over, got out and sure enough he was right PS1s on the front and PS2s on the rear.
Put PS2s on the front and BINGO! Absolutely planted straight away.
He said with 4 matching tyres it should be a real effort to get the traction light to flicker on any BMW.


You may be fine with different tyres front and rear, but in my experience on the few occasions where I have been waiting for fronts or rears to come in, and have ran with different ones for a week or so, you can feel how much difference it makes. Hence I never do it anymore.

mygoldfishbowl

2,932 posts

91 months

Wednesday 13th November
quotequote all
Leptons said:
DaveH23 said:
If you were doing a bungee jump would you still be comfortable jumping knowing the Bungee had previously been repaired because of damage, or a parachute?

The difference there is you will probably only kill yourself if it goes tits up, you're dicing with other people's lives repairing tyres in my opinion.

It's a few hundred quid in the majority of cases for a new tyre. Sometimes alot cheaper and others more but we all buy cars we can afford to run, right......?
Jesus Christ.
What does Jesus need with a bungee?

Cold

7,784 posts

38 months

Wednesday 13th November
quotequote all
mygoldfishbowl said:
Leptons said:
DaveH23 said:
If you were doing a bungee jump would you still be comfortable jumping knowing the Bungee had previously been repaired because of damage, or a parachute?

The difference there is you will probably only kill yourself if it goes tits up, you're dicing with other people's lives repairing tyres in my opinion.

It's a few hundred quid in the majority of cases for a new tyre. Sometimes alot cheaper and others more but we all buy cars we can afford to run, right......?
Jesus Christ.
What does Jesus need with a bungee?
He's run out of No More Nails.

spaximus

3,631 posts

201 months

Wednesday 13th November
quotequote all
Never heard of the two repairs in one quarter and looking at the below industry standard neither have they.

I suspect the supplier has made it up or has their own policy but if you retained the tyre you could get a second opinion and repair.

There is a lot of rot spoken about tyre repairs and even a tyre with a major repair is perfectly safe. For some they prefer to have a new tyre everytime which is fine if you want to but it is never on safety grounds as tyres are designed to be repaired

http://btmauk.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Minor...

Limpet

3,517 posts

109 months

Wednesday 13th November
quotequote all
Had a plug repair done by my local tyre dealer on one of the Mini's rear tyres when the car was just a few months old (tyre had less than 3k on it). That was 18 months ago, and it hasn't given me any issues since.

It was a very slow puncture caused by a nail (which was still in the tyre), and was losing 1-2 PSI overnight according to the TPMS. I topped the pressure off as soon as it flagged, so the tyre was never allowed to run more than a few PSI under its recommended pressure, and then only at town speeds for a mile or so. There was no question of any underinflation damage having occurred.

Cost me a tenner for the repair, which was infinitely preferable to £100 or so for a new premium tyre.

Elatino1

492 posts

9 months

Wednesday 13th November
quotequote all
DaveH23 said:
If you were doing a bungee jump would you still be comfortable jumping knowing the Bungee had previously been repaired because of damage, or a parachute?

The difference there is you will probably only kill yourself if it goes tits up, you're dicing with other people's lives repairing tyres in my opinion.

It's a few hundred quid in the majority of cases for a new tyre. Sometimes alot cheaper and others more but we all buy cars we can afford to run, right......?
Very funny. laugh

I suppose you would never get on a plane,train or automobile or get on a boat at all as it may have been repaired at some point.

What about your house? Do you buy a new one if it ever needs a repair?

You Sir should do a bit of research rather than flush money down the toilet.

B'stard Child

19,054 posts

194 months

Thursday 14th November
quotequote all
gizlaroc said:
irocfan said:
Do you mean different brands front and rear or different sizes?
Different tread patterns.

I have had it a few times now, on BMWs where they have become a bit of a twitchy mess with different tyres front and rear. Traction light coming on far too often on damp roundabouts to the back end kicking out when going to overtake.

The more powerful the car the more it is noticeable, but once you have had it you can tell the signs even on a 320d for example.


The real eye opener, which was the thing that got me to realise how much it can affect things, was with the M3 CSL.
It was scary bad.
BMW had it in, swapped control arms, dampers, springs, did a 4 wheel alignment half a dozen times and couldn't work it out.
They then called me to say someone was in the Norwich workshop from an Essex branch covering holidays who raced M3s and they were talking about my car to him, they said to pop down and he would take it out.
We came off the slip road, got to the next roundabout and came off the first exit and he said "You have mismatched tyres front and rear."
I was adamant I had Pilot Sports all round.
We pulled over, got out and sure enough he was right PS1s on the front and PS2s on the rear.
Put PS2s on the front and BINGO! Absolutely planted straight away.
He said with 4 matching tyres it should be a real effort to get the traction light to flicker on any BMW.


You may be fine with different tyres front and rear, but in my experience on the few occasions where I have been waiting for fronts or rears to come in, and have ran with different ones for a week or so, you can feel how much difference it makes. Hence I never do it anymore.
I've always done this - had too many iffy handling cars purchsed second hand with non matching tyres that have been transformed with a matching set of tyres.

Add in also that I don't 100% trust tyres that other people have driven on - you don't know if they have been bounced up and down kerbs, run low on air etc etc - only thing keeping you on the black stuff is four smallish contact patches where rubber interfaces with road.

That said I just purchased a set of second hand winters on steels for the daily but they'd only done one trip to the Alps and the seller was a proper car nut like me......

S1KRR

10,827 posts

160 months

Thursday 14th November
quotequote all
The thing people NEVER think about is that when you get a puncture. You're exposing the steel bands in the tyre to the elements.

No plug will fill the hole completely. Hence why they have the mushroom shaped bit behind which actually seals the air into the tyre.

So unless you never drive in the rain. Or over wet ground. Or wash the car. In time the steel will corrode and eventually fail.

Kenny Powers

2,431 posts

75 months

Thursday 14th November
quotequote all
I once fixed a puncture myself with a piece of cardboard and some superglue. It never leaked again and the tyre outlived the car. True story,

Mind you this was back in the halcyon days when people weren’t terrified of their own shadow.

gizlaroc

13,193 posts

172 months

Thursday 14th November
quotequote all
I got two flats in a day yesterday!

I was swapping to my winter wheels, got a flat on one of the tyres on the way there. Nail in tyre.

Then bugger me, got one last night in the winters too.
Luckily it was again in the middle.

I reckon it is because of all the rain, so much st washed into the road?

Bloody annoying though.

rash_decision

1,343 posts

125 months

Friday 15th November
quotequote all
gizlaroc said:
irocfan said:
Do you mean different brands front and rear or different sizes?
Different tread patterns.

I have had it a few times now, on BMWs where they have become a bit of a twitchy mess with different tyres front and rear. Traction light coming on far too often on damp roundabouts to the back end kicking out when going to overtake.

The more powerful the car the more it is noticeable, but once you have had it you can tell the signs even on a 320d for example.


The real eye opener, which was the thing that got me to realise how much it can affect things, was with the M3 CSL.
It was scary bad.
BMW had it in, swapped control arms, dampers, springs, did a 4 wheel alignment half a dozen times and couldn't work it out.
They then called me to say someone was in the Norwich workshop from an Essex branch covering holidays who raced M3s and they were talking about my car to him, they said to pop down and he would take it out.
We came off the slip road, got to the next roundabout and came off the first exit and he said "You have mismatched tyres front and rear."
I was adamant I had Pilot Sports all round.
We pulled over, got out and sure enough he was right PS1s on the front and PS2s on the rear.
Put PS2s on the front and BINGO! Absolutely planted straight away.
He said with 4 matching tyres it should be a real effort to get the traction light to flicker on any BMW.


You may be fine with different tyres front and rear, but in my experience on the few occasions where I have been waiting for fronts or rears to come in, and have ran with different ones for a week or so, you can feel how much difference it makes. Hence I never do it anymore.
Ok, i’ll bite.

How does it make a difference if you have PS2 front and rear, for the rear traction to differ? You could have Toyo R888 all round, or just on the rear and China’s finest budget on the front, but if you’re gonna spin the rear wheels, the fronts have absolutely no bearing on this??

I raced E46 and E92, and if the rear is gonna break away, there’s no way having good Tyres’s on the front would stop that?

Edited by rash_decision on Friday 15th November 05:47

gizlaroc

13,193 posts

172 months

Friday 15th November
quotequote all
rash_decision said:
Ok, i’ll bite.

How does it make a difference if you have PS2 front and rear, for the rear traction to differ? You could have Toyo R888 all round, or just on the rear and China’s finest budget on the front, but if you’re gonna spin the rear wheels, the fronts have absolutely no bearing on this??

I raced E46 and E92, and if the rear is gonna break away, there’s no way having good Tyres’s on the front would stop that?
It is the difference between grip levels on each axle I guess?

It wasn't subtle by the way.

Putting my foot down to simply move into the outside lane on the A11 to overtake someone in the damp got the back end twitching. That was the point I took it in.


What I have found is it more apparent with asymmetrical tyres on the rear and symmetrical on the front.




rash_decision

1,343 posts

125 months

Friday 15th November
quotequote all
gizlaroc said:
rash_decision said:
Ok, i’ll bite.

How does it make a difference if you have PS2 front and rear, for the rear traction to differ? You could have Toyo R888 all round, or just on the rear and China’s finest budget on the front, but if you’re gonna spin the rear wheels, the fronts have absolutely no bearing on this??

I raced E46 and E92, and if the rear is gonna break away, there’s no way having good Tyres’s on the front would stop that?
It is the difference between grip levels on each axle I guess?

It wasn't subtle by the way.

Putting my foot down to simply move into the outside lane on the A11 to overtake someone in the damp got the back end twitching. That was the point I took it in.


What I have found is it more apparent with asymmetrical tyres on the rear and symmetrical on the front.
Ok, I understand the rear possibly stepping out a bit under hard acceleration, but having 4 matching tyres wouldn’t prevent that happening. That’s just a phenomenon of fairly high powered, light at the back end, RWD cars.

Anyway, glad you sorted it out and noticed a difference. 👍🏻

gizlaroc

13,193 posts

172 months

Friday 15th November
quotequote all
rash_decision said:
Ok, I understand the rear possibly stepping out a bit under hard acceleration, but having 4 matching tyres wouldn’t prevent that happening. That’s just a phenomenon of fairly high powered, light at the back end, RWD cars.

Anyway, glad you sorted it out and noticed a difference. ????
I thought exactly the same as you.

I was adamant it couldn't be tyres.

It was.



I have spent the last 15 years hearing people on forums asking why their car feels so lose at the back, the one thing that I always say is "I bet you have different tyres front and rear?"
9 times out of 10 they have, after lots of persuasion swapped and come back amazed that the car now feels completely planted.




Pothole

27,780 posts

230 months

Friday 15th November
quotequote all
PaulPGreen said:
Most of the time I always get a new tyre fitted.
I'm confused as to when you do and when you don't...

zedx19

2,049 posts

88 months

Friday 15th November
quotequote all
DaveH23 said:
If you were doing a bungee jump would you still be comfortable jumping knowing the Bungee had previously been repaired because of damage, or a parachute?

The difference there is you will probably only kill yourself if it goes tits up, you're dicing with other people's lives repairing tyres in my opinion.

It's a few hundred quid in the majority of cases for a new tyre. Sometimes alot cheaper and others more but we all buy cars we can afford to run, right......?
This can't be a serious post surely? It must be a joke post??

irocfan

21,236 posts

138 months

Friday 15th November
quotequote all
I guess that all the people who'll "...never repair..." will then either never buy a used car or, if they do, replace all 4 tyres asap?