RE: Unstoppable Alfa meet immovable Audi | PH Footnote
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Likewise it really annoys me when people slag-off Alfa's for being unreliable when having never ever owned one. They ARE reliable so long as you maintain them properly.
I currently have an Alfa 166 2.0 Twin Spark 2005. In the 20,000 miles I've done in it it's been totally reliable, and it's now on 114k miles. Previous to this I owned an '06 Mercedes CLK 320CDi with 94k miles with flawless full Merc FSH - it was the most unreliable car I'd ever owned. It cost me a fortune in repairs / to keep it going, as well as lots of lost time making endless trips to the Merc specialists. The car was way too complex for its own good.
"Famous" German car reliability?? Don't make me laugh - they're just as reliable / unreliable as any other car. And the statistics back this up.
I currently have an Alfa 166 2.0 Twin Spark 2005. In the 20,000 miles I've done in it it's been totally reliable, and it's now on 114k miles. Previous to this I owned an '06 Mercedes CLK 320CDi with 94k miles with flawless full Merc FSH - it was the most unreliable car I'd ever owned. It cost me a fortune in repairs / to keep it going, as well as lots of lost time making endless trips to the Merc specialists. The car was way too complex for its own good.
"Famous" German car reliability?? Don't make me laugh - they're just as reliable / unreliable as any other car. And the statistics back this up.
defonsecca said:
Likewise it really annoys me when people slag-off Alfa's for being unreliable when having never ever owned one. They ARE reliable so long as you maintain them properly.
I currently have an Alfa 166 2.0 Twin Spark 2005. In the 20,000 miles I've done in it it's been totally reliable, and it's now on 114k miles. Previous to this I owned an '06 Mercedes CLK 320CDi with 94k miles with flawless full Merc FSH - it was the most unreliable car I'd ever owned. It cost me a fortune in repairs / to keep it going, as well as lots of lost time making endless trips to the Merc specialists. The car was way too complex for its own good.
"Famous" German car reliability?? Don't make me laugh - they're just as reliable / unreliable as any other car. And the statistics back this up.
Shh! You'll ruin the myth.I currently have an Alfa 166 2.0 Twin Spark 2005. In the 20,000 miles I've done in it it's been totally reliable, and it's now on 114k miles. Previous to this I owned an '06 Mercedes CLK 320CDi with 94k miles with flawless full Merc FSH - it was the most unreliable car I'd ever owned. It cost me a fortune in repairs / to keep it going, as well as lots of lost time making endless trips to the Merc specialists. The car was way too complex for its own good.
"Famous" German car reliability?? Don't make me laugh - they're just as reliable / unreliable as any other car. And the statistics back this up.
defonsecca said:
"Famous" German car reliability?? Don't make me laugh - they're just as reliable / unreliable as any other car. And the statistics back this up.
Worse in fact, Mercedes, Audi and BMW all below industry average in problems per 100 vehicles. BMW at the bottom of the list.https://europe.jdpower.com/press-releases/2019-uk-...
budgie smuggler said:
defonsecca said:
"Famous" German car reliability?? Don't make me laugh - they're just as reliable / unreliable as any other car. And the statistics back this up.
Worse in fact, Mercedes, Audi and BMW all below industry average in problems per 100 vehicles. BMW at the bottom of the list.https://europe.jdpower.com/press-releases/2019-uk-...
Unfortunately the Germans have a "perceived" quality and reliability, which is greater than the reality
But, its a hurdle that Alfa and many others have to cross to be successful.
I'm fed up with the same old rubbish spouted. Look at most of the guys on here that own QFs, they've had really good experiences of the cars being reliable. I personally know a guy with one of the earliest QFs and despite his history being BMWs, Audis, mercs and Porsches, he says hands down the very best car he's owned.
But, its a hurdle that Alfa and many others have to cross to be successful.
heisthegaffer said:
Pooh said:
Do you have any evidence to support the assertion that Audi has a far stronger reliability record or is that just lazy stereotyping?
According to What Car tha Giulia and the A5 are very closely matched in terms of reliability, is there any reason to suppose that the RS 5 will be more reliable than the standard A5?
https://www.whatcar.com/news/2019-what-car-reliabi...
It is going to be very difficult for Alfa to be successful if people cannot move on from outdated stereotypes that are vastly exaggerated and not a fair representation of Alfa’s true reliability record.
Here, here. According to What Car tha Giulia and the A5 are very closely matched in terms of reliability, is there any reason to suppose that the RS 5 will be more reliable than the standard A5?
https://www.whatcar.com/news/2019-what-car-reliabi...
It is going to be very difficult for Alfa to be successful if people cannot move on from outdated stereotypes that are vastly exaggerated and not a fair representation of Alfa’s true reliability record.
I'm fed up with the same old rubbish spouted. Look at most of the guys on here that own QFs, they've had really good experiences of the cars being reliable. I personally know a guy with one of the earliest QFs and despite his history being BMWs, Audis, mercs and Porsches, he says hands down the very best car he's owned.
Hopefully putting this to bed.
Giulia QF: best car I've owned to date. Dealer network and Alfa UK are disappointing but the car is epic.
I sold mine in June after 27 months of faultless ownership and I miss it daily. It did everything, and did it well. Certainly a more involving experience than the BMW or Merc equivalent.
For the record, the QF is 1700kg+. Don't believe the book figure.
Giulia QF: best car I've owned to date. Dealer network and Alfa UK are disappointing but the car is epic.
I sold mine in June after 27 months of faultless ownership and I miss it daily. It did everything, and did it well. Certainly a more involving experience than the BMW or Merc equivalent.
For the record, the QF is 1700kg+. Don't believe the book figure.
Hopefully putting this to bed.
Giulia QF: best car I've owned to date. Dealer network and Alfa UK are disappointing but the car is epic.
I sold mine in June after 27 months of faultless ownership and I miss it daily. It did everything, and did it well. Certainly a more involving experience than the BMW or Merc equivalent.
For the record, the QF is 1700kg+. Don't believe the book figure.
Giulia QF: best car I've owned to date. Dealer network and Alfa UK are disappointing but the car is epic.
I sold mine in June after 27 months of faultless ownership and I miss it daily. It did everything, and did it well. Certainly a more involving experience than the BMW or Merc equivalent.
For the record, the QF is 1700kg+. Don't believe the book figure.
ecain63 said:
Hopefully putting this to bed.
Giulia QF: best car I've owned to date. Dealer network and Alfa UK are disappointing but the car is epic.
I sold mine in June after 27 months of faultless ownership and I miss it daily. It did everything, and did it well. Certainly a more involving experience than the BMW or Merc equivalent.
For the record, the QF is 1700kg+. Don't believe the book figure.
Why did you sell it then?Giulia QF: best car I've owned to date. Dealer network and Alfa UK are disappointing but the car is epic.
I sold mine in June after 27 months of faultless ownership and I miss it daily. It did everything, and did it well. Certainly a more involving experience than the BMW or Merc equivalent.
For the record, the QF is 1700kg+. Don't believe the book figure.
Max_Torque said:
chelme said:
the engine light came on probably because the car was thrashed, and a sensor complained, not because the engine exploded.
But that "fault" is simply indicative of the lower development effort that went into the Alfa. You can absolutely thrash the tyres clean off say an M3, and you won't get any spurious warning lights, simply becuase BMW's validation test team have done that sort of thing so much, that any issue in that area, no matter how "trivial" (and as a driver, you don't know how "trivial" a warning light actually is until you get it to the dealer and their diagnostic suite...) has been eradicated long before any actual owners get to try it.And yes, all modern cars can suffer catastrophic failures, but in reality, cars have never been as reliable as they are now, especially when you take into account the power and performance they have and the efficiency they can manage when not being thrashed. I recently had an m3 on loan, and trundling around it returned mid 30's mpg, if you really drove like granny you might even get it up towards 40 mpg. 20 years ago, a BMW M5, with 60 fewer horsepower and 50 fewer Nm of torque, would basically do 25 mpg, however carefully you drove it. The downside of this wide ranging capability is that modern engines and powertains are very complex and highly stressed, so failures can, and do, occur.
There is no doubt that Alfa made an amazing leap onwards in terms of, well, everything with the Giulia, but it isn't as well engineered as it's German rivals
don't get me wrong i wouldn't buy the Audi either, but for very different reasons...... ;-)
Yet. They've managed to make a car that can rival them and in some case - such as Audi, IMO - better them. The fact the QV is so close to an M3 is a marvel in what AR can actually do. Some mild reliability issues and wouldn't spoil that considering the differences in budget and development, frankly.
Autonomy said:
Max_Torque said:
chelme said:
the engine light came on probably because the car was thrashed, and a sensor complained, not because the engine exploded.
But that "fault" is simply indicative of the lower development effort that went into the Alfa. You can absolutely thrash the tyres clean off say an M3, and you won't get any spurious warning lights, simply becuase BMW's validation test team have done that sort of thing so much, that any issue in that area, no matter how "trivial" (and as a driver, you don't know how "trivial" a warning light actually is until you get it to the dealer and their diagnostic suite...) has been eradicated long before any actual owners get to try it.And yes, all modern cars can suffer catastrophic failures, but in reality, cars have never been as reliable as they are now, especially when you take into account the power and performance they have and the efficiency they can manage when not being thrashed. I recently had an m3 on loan, and trundling around it returned mid 30's mpg, if you really drove like granny you might even get it up towards 40 mpg. 20 years ago, a BMW M5, with 60 fewer horsepower and 50 fewer Nm of torque, would basically do 25 mpg, however carefully you drove it. The downside of this wide ranging capability is that modern engines and powertains are very complex and highly stressed, so failures can, and do, occur.
There is no doubt that Alfa made an amazing leap onwards in terms of, well, everything with the Giulia, but it isn't as well engineered as it's German rivals
don't get me wrong i wouldn't buy the Audi either, but for very different reasons...... ;-)
Yet. They've managed to make a car that can rival them and in some case - such as Audi, IMO - better them. The fact the QV is so close to an M3 is a marvel in what AR can actually do. Some mild reliability issues and wouldn't spoil that considering the differences in budget and development, frankly.
The Audi is just a bit ghastly on the outside. Too clinical and too boring. Nothing stand out about it at all. The same goes for almost all modern Audis and BMWs and Mercs in my opinion. It's too difficult to distinguish a genuine performance/driver's car from the boggo diesel 2 litre with the sport bodykit that unless you're really up close to spot the badge or the engine note (or lack thereof).
I've always loved the QF, and would easily buy a new one if I had 60k odd lying around for a car. Android Auto also means the infotainment is a non issue for me. I'd just be adjusting the climate contort and doing everything else via my phone.
The QF is also stunningly beautiful from every angle. And the choice of alloys on the RS5.... whoever signed off on those needs shooting. They are absolutely shocking and do not suit the body style whatsoever.
I've always loved the QF, and would easily buy a new one if I had 60k odd lying around for a car. Android Auto also means the infotainment is a non issue for me. I'd just be adjusting the climate contort and doing everything else via my phone.
The QF is also stunningly beautiful from every angle. And the choice of alloys on the RS5.... whoever signed off on those needs shooting. They are absolutely shocking and do not suit the body style whatsoever.
firebird350 said:
Not sure how relevant this is to the thread but to any Giulia QF owners wondering about the longevity of their cars maybe they'll take comfort from my 19 years' ownership of 1993's then fastest Alfa Romeo - the 24v 164 Cloverleaf.
The car above is now on 207,000 miles on its original engine. The only 'failure' suffered by my engine resulted from a mishap during a routine cambelt change which necessitated a full top-end rebuild at 185,000 miles - just one of those things. To err is human, to forgive is divine (yeah, right!).
Gearbox rebuild at 124,000 miles (my fault after the Alfa took a bloody nose when going up against an RS4).
Despite being galvanized the jacking points caused several MOT failures over the years (have a check on the 164's MOT history - dreadful isn't it!) but some serious restoration efforts underneath seem to have knocked these problems on the head just recently. Exterior-wise the paintwork is fully original bar a re-painted bonnet, rear wings and rear doorshuts. The rest responded brilliantly to the car's first machine polish aged 24 years which showed how good the original Alfa paint was.
My 'Leaf has pretty much been a professional working car throughout its life, always living outdoors (still does in spite of being 'semi-retired' these days - rather like me!). Neither of us are garage queens although I myself don't sleep outdoors obviously.
Awesome car, the 164 Cloverleaf. Still misunderstood today but a car which Alfa invested in heavily to get right and which feels, to this day, built UP to a price rather than down to one - a similar ethos to today's Giulia from what I've read.
In all, I've spent over £30k on servicing, repairs and renovation over my 19-year ownership but if your Giulia QF does get under your skin (as my Cloverleaf has) then don't be surprised to wake up one day after many, many years to find yourself saying "Jesus, what do I replace it with?!".
I can't believe they are even trying to compare these two. Audi claims they have knocked the Alfa of it's perch? 
My S3 is just fine as a daily small family hatch, but a drivers car it is not. Sums up Audi.
The Alfa though, just seems to tick all the boxes.
( According to Shmee, the Portofino won engine of the year twice )
My S3 is just fine as a daily small family hatch, but a drivers car it is not. Sums up Audi.
The Alfa though, just seems to tick all the boxes.
( According to Shmee, the Portofino won engine of the year twice )
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