Hybrid as a viable option for fun car?
Discussion
HustleRussell said:
The hybrid cars available today are not compatible with my view of what a 'fun' car / driving experience is.
I think it's a bit chicken and egg.The current audience for hybrids is small, but growing. The audience for a sporty hybrid, by virtue of the rate of adoption and general attitudes, is miniscule.
It would be a very brave manufacturer who released something into the hybrid/sporty part of the Venn.
C70R said:
HustleRussell said:
The hybrid cars available today are not compatible with my view of what a 'fun' car / driving experience is.
I think it's a bit chicken and egg.The current audience for hybrids is small, but growing. The audience for a sporty hybrid, by virtue of the rate of adoption and general attitudes, is miniscule.
It would be a very brave manufacturer who released something into the hybrid/sporty part of the Venn.
C70R said:
My 'sport' model plugin hybrid is a 4WD 'hatchback' with 230bhp/lbft, a tiptronic box and a turbo.
It's also dull as dishwater to drive.
I don't think any hybrid has yet been built with driving enjoyment as a priority.
TBH, that is a recipe for boredom- doesn't matter is it a hybrid or not. Combination of turbo lag, 4wd, vague steering feel and high weight makes driver more disconnected from driving. And i don't want that too much. Top of that, most cars which offers reasonable amount of performance doesn't deliver that good mpg. It's also dull as dishwater to drive.
I don't think any hybrid has yet been built with driving enjoyment as a priority.
I did test drive Golf GTI with DSG and it was a letdown for sure. It was a reasonable fast car, but sometimes gearbox was totally rubbish, throttle response was really laggy (Normal mode) and it wasn't that communicative nor comfortable. MPG wasn't stellar either. No way i would change my car(s) for this.
Test driving a lexus was totally different: i immediatly enjoyed rigid chassis and very supple suspension-great combination for real world driving and bad roads. Hybrid system didn't ruin this car and that was a big surprise for me. It feels little bit like driving an old v6 with autobox, nothing wrong about that. Linear power delivery is a good thing, sometimes it is nice to give some beans in middle of the corner etc. And this thing can do it + it gives very good mpg. In a way, i think hybrid system is this cars strong point.
Earlier today i was making a list about cars which i would buy with my own money for long trips across Europe. They were all hybrids. I think all of them combines the good things from new cars together and end product is higly enjoyable and efficient. Bad thing is that only RC 300h is cheap enough for me
My top choices for trip to Europe would be LC500h then i8 and RC 300h. It seems that I'm sold for hybrids.
Edited by LasseV on Tuesday 26th November 16:13
Edited by LasseV on Tuesday 26th November 16:14
LasseV said:
C70R said:
My 'sport' model plugin hybrid is a 4WD 'hatchback' with 230bhp/lbft, a tiptronic box and a turbo.
It's also dull as dishwater to drive.
I don't think any hybrid has yet been built with driving enjoyment as a priority.
TBH, that is a recipe for boredom- doesn't matter is it a hybrid or not. Combination of turbo lag, 4wd, vague steering feel and high weight makes driver more disconnected from driving. And i don't want that too much. Top of that, most cars which offers reasonable amount of performance doesn't deliver that good mpg. It's also dull as dishwater to drive.
I don't think any hybrid has yet been built with driving enjoyment as a priority.
I did test drive Golf GTI with DSG and it was a letdown for sure. It was a reasonable fast car, but sometimes gearbox was totally rubbish, throttle response was really laggy (Normal mode) and it wasn't that communicative nor comfortable. MPG wasn't stellar either. No way i would change my car(s) for this.
Test driving a lexus was totally different: i immediatly enjoyed rigid chassis and very supple suspension-great combination for real world driving and bad roads. Hybrid system didn't ruin this car and that was a big surprise for me. It feels little bit like driving an old v6 with autobox, nothing wrong about that. Linear power delivery is a good thing, sometimes it is nice to give some beans in middle of the corner etc. And this thing can do it + it gives very good mpg. In a way, i think hybrid system is this cars strong point.
Earlier today i was making a list about cars which i would buy with my own money for long trips across Europe. They were all hybrids. I think all of them combines the good things from new cars together and end product is higly enjoyable and efficient. Bad thing is that only RC 300h is cheap enough for me
My top choices for trip to Europe would be LC500h then i8 and RC 300h. It seems that I'm sold for hybrids.
Edited by LasseV on Tuesday 26th November 16:13
Edited by LasseV on Tuesday 26th November 16:14
I only ask because the i8 is a 4WD, turbo hybrid with a tiptronic box. And the RC300h is a CVT auto that weighs almost 1800kg.
You probably wouldn't enjoy them. Unless, that is, you're just judging them on how they look.
Biased opinions coming up. I have an RC300h that has recently replaced an ISF.
You have to know how to drive a hybrid, and after covering 300,000 miles in various Prius over the last 10 years, I feel qualified to say that.
When I retired I treated myself to the ISF, and despite having fast cars when younger, on today's roads the ISF, was just too fast and capable. I ended up driving it like a dick, finishing every drive wondering if I'd been caught by a camera.
The Lexus quality won me over, and so the hybrid RC was purchased. And from the start, I knew how to drive it, unlike the majority of people who have a go, don't appreciate how to drive them, and so dismiss the hybrid idea.
Take advantage of the 24 hour test drive Lexus offer, and get in one, relax and learn how to drive it.
If you want a bit of go leaving a roundabout, put it into Sport, get up to speed, go back into drive, set the cruise and relax again, all without getting points.
And, it will never go wrong.
You have to know how to drive a hybrid, and after covering 300,000 miles in various Prius over the last 10 years, I feel qualified to say that.
When I retired I treated myself to the ISF, and despite having fast cars when younger, on today's roads the ISF, was just too fast and capable. I ended up driving it like a dick, finishing every drive wondering if I'd been caught by a camera.
The Lexus quality won me over, and so the hybrid RC was purchased. And from the start, I knew how to drive it, unlike the majority of people who have a go, don't appreciate how to drive them, and so dismiss the hybrid idea.
Take advantage of the 24 hour test drive Lexus offer, and get in one, relax and learn how to drive it.
If you want a bit of go leaving a roundabout, put it into Sport, get up to speed, go back into drive, set the cruise and relax again, all without getting points.
And, it will never go wrong.
Tabs said:
Biased opinions coming up. I have an RC300h that has recently replaced an ISF.
You have to know how to drive a hybrid, and after covering 300,000 miles in various Prius over the last 10 years, I feel qualified to say that.
When I retired I treated myself to the ISF, and despite having fast cars when younger, on today's roads the ISF, was just too fast and capable. I ended up driving it like a dick, finishing every drive wondering if I'd been caught by a camera.
The Lexus quality won me over, and so the hybrid RC was purchased. And from the start, I knew how to drive it, unlike the majority of people who have a go, don't appreciate how to drive them, and so dismiss the hybrid idea.
Take advantage of the 24 hour test drive Lexus offer, and get in one, relax and learn how to drive it.
If you want a bit of go leaving a roundabout, put it into Sport, get up to speed, go back into drive, set the cruise and relax again, all without getting points.
And, it will never go wrong.
see comments at end You have to know how to drive a hybrid, and after covering 300,000 miles in various Prius over the last 10 years, I feel qualified to say that.
When I retired I treated myself to the ISF, and despite having fast cars when younger, on today's roads the ISF, was just too fast and capable. I ended up driving it like a dick, finishing every drive wondering if I'd been caught by a camera.
The Lexus quality won me over, and so the hybrid RC was purchased. And from the start, I knew how to drive it, unlike the majority of people who have a go, don't appreciate how to drive them, and so dismiss the hybrid idea.
Take advantage of the 24 hour test drive Lexus offer, and get in one, relax and learn how to drive it.
If you want a bit of go leaving a roundabout, put it into Sport, get up to speed, go back into drive, set the cruise and relax again, all without getting points.
And, it will never go wrong.
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/lexus/rc/105655/new-...
Depends on the price range I suppose. The Porsche Hybrids are currently awesome with the Cayenne and Panamera being fantastically capable as well as doing well on the hybrid side of things. For me, they seem to hit the balance well with excellent performance, good feel (if a little heavy) and dynamics as well as providing some electric range and performance in e-mode.
On the face of things, they do look a little silly, but when you dig into them, they make a lot of sense. With excellent out of city performance, they can be driven 'spiritedly'. But hit the city and slot it into electric only mode for the last 25 miles and suddenly it makes a lot of sense. Ok, never going to set the world alight with the economy, but the lack of emissions in a big city does make sense as well as avoiding fuel sapping stop-start traffic and additional tolls and charges. Clever pieces of kit.
Personally, from a spirited point of view, the noise of an atkinson cycle engine and a CVT gearbox kills me. That drone and lack of response is the problem. Lexus did a great job of hiding the sound and improving the response, which is excellent. I just hope that some other manufacturers figure this out and produce something. But with the world going full electric, I suspect that the hybrid market is going to stay stagnant. No one else seems to be jumping into it at the moment, other than mild hybrids, but lets see.
On the face of things, they do look a little silly, but when you dig into them, they make a lot of sense. With excellent out of city performance, they can be driven 'spiritedly'. But hit the city and slot it into electric only mode for the last 25 miles and suddenly it makes a lot of sense. Ok, never going to set the world alight with the economy, but the lack of emissions in a big city does make sense as well as avoiding fuel sapping stop-start traffic and additional tolls and charges. Clever pieces of kit.
Personally, from a spirited point of view, the noise of an atkinson cycle engine and a CVT gearbox kills me. That drone and lack of response is the problem. Lexus did a great job of hiding the sound and improving the response, which is excellent. I just hope that some other manufacturers figure this out and produce something. But with the world going full electric, I suspect that the hybrid market is going to stay stagnant. No one else seems to be jumping into it at the moment, other than mild hybrids, but lets see.
C70R said:
Have you actually driven any of those cars?
I only ask because the i8 is a 4WD, turbo hybrid with a tiptronic box. And the RC300h is a CVT auto that weighs almost 1800kg.
You probably wouldn't enjoy them. Unless, that is, you're just judging them on how they look.
Tbh, i know that driver involment has been lost long time ago - and it will never come back. However, there are some changes in my life which makes me think that i should sell my old cars and buy a new one. (With all the modern safety systems etc) Now i'm trying to find a modern car witch combines good mpg (low running costs) with reasonable performance and GT-like driving characteristic (even little bit of fun/ capable long trip car). Most modern performance cars does have bad mpg figures yet they are not that exiting overall, and that is little bit of disapointing. Yes, they are fast in straight line, but other than that they have usually left me cold. Now i'm talking about sensible priced cars, not 911/LC500/GranTourismo level cars. I only ask because the i8 is a 4WD, turbo hybrid with a tiptronic box. And the RC300h is a CVT auto that weighs almost 1800kg.
You probably wouldn't enjoy them. Unless, that is, you're just judging them on how they look.
LasseV said:
Tbh, i know that driver involment has been lost long time ago - and it will never come back. However, there are some changes in my life which makes me think that i should sell my old cars and buy a new one. (With all the modern safety systems etc) Now i'm trying to find a modern car witch combines good mpg (low running costs) with reasonable performance and GT-like driving characteristic (even little bit of fun/ capable long trip car). Most modern performance cars does have bad mpg figures yet they are not that exiting overall, and that is little bit of disapointing. Yes, they are fast in straight line, but other than that they have usually left me cold. Now i'm talking about sensible priced cars, not 911/LC500/GranTourismo level cars.
Here are some sensibly priced Hybrids:335i Active Hybrid:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
Infiniti Q50h S
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
Lexus GS450h F Sport
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
saaby93 said:
thatdude said:
How about the Honda CR-Z? Hybrid, with a manual transmission.
Didnt it miss the boat on both countsNot brilliant on economy or performance
ZX10R NIN said:
Here are some sensibly priced Hybrids:
335i Active Hybrid:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
Infiniti Q50h S
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
Lexus GS450h F Sport
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
I think i have to test drive GS450h althought im not that interested about big 4 door saloon. On the other hand, you never know. At least it offers good performance and lot of space. I have read that new GS is very good to drive. I think i also need to test drive IS300h again.335i Active Hybrid:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
Infiniti Q50h S
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
Lexus GS450h F Sport
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
That BMW hybrid is quite odd. Real World mpg figures are not that good.
I had a Lexus courtesy car. I'm not sure of its name; it was I believe their mid-size 4x4 (Q5 or X3 sized).
The drivetrain was woeful!
The electric mode worked only when crawling. When you actually wanted to make progress, the CVT would kick down and have the little petrol motor screaming. It didn't sound good, and the frenetic attempt to deliver power was embarrasing; I just gave up and accepted I'd be driving slowly.
For me, it just seems like a ruse to get around emission regs, at the expense of the driving experience. My Macan returns better fuel economy, is markedly quicker, and didn't make such a ridiculous fuss - long live diesels!
The drivetrain was woeful!
The electric mode worked only when crawling. When you actually wanted to make progress, the CVT would kick down and have the little petrol motor screaming. It didn't sound good, and the frenetic attempt to deliver power was embarrasing; I just gave up and accepted I'd be driving slowly.
For me, it just seems like a ruse to get around emission regs, at the expense of the driving experience. My Macan returns better fuel economy, is markedly quicker, and didn't make such a ridiculous fuss - long live diesels!
LasseV said:
C70R said:
Have you actually driven any of those cars?
I only ask because the i8 is a 4WD, turbo hybrid with a tiptronic box. And the RC300h is a CVT auto that weighs almost 1800kg.
You probably wouldn't enjoy them. Unless, that is, you're just judging them on how they look.
Tbh, i know that driver involment has been lost long time ago - and it will never come back. However, there are some changes in my life which makes me think that i should sell my old cars and buy a new one. (With all the modern safety systems etc) Now i'm trying to find a modern car witch combines good mpg (low running costs) with reasonable performance and GT-like driving characteristic (even little bit of fun/ capable long trip car). Most modern performance cars does have bad mpg figures yet they are not that exiting overall, and that is little bit of disapointing. Yes, they are fast in straight line, but other than that they have usually left me cold. Now i'm talking about sensible priced cars, not 911/LC500/GranTourismo level cars. I only ask because the i8 is a 4WD, turbo hybrid with a tiptronic box. And the RC300h is a CVT auto that weighs almost 1800kg.
You probably wouldn't enjoy them. Unless, that is, you're just judging them on how they look.
I'm not sure you're making your point very well.
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