RE: Lancia Delta Integrale Evo 1 | Spotted

[shoestring7]

I had an Evo 1; it was reliable bar a few niggles but the way it flowed over B road surfaces was amazing, and it was very fast point to point (in light traffic).

I keep coming back to the same question- why are modern manufacturers unable to produce cars that are as compete and engaging as they were 30 years ago?

[andrewcliffe]

viggyp said:

Itsallicanafford said:

Question - How closely related to the integral engine was the original 16v turbo lump in the fiat coupe?

The Coupe lump is lifted from the Integrale except with less power and maybe different cams.

According to the FIA homologation departments, cams have same dimensions, same compression ratio. So engine internals likely to be same. External things such as engine manangment may have differed, or peak boost.

[Niffty951]

adingley84 said:

The older I get, the more I want one, the further out of reach they get! Absolute legend of a car.

This really.

Off to look for Mk2 G60 Synchro golfs in the classified ads, but it never was a substitute.

[RLK500]

Guy I bought my E30 from, arrived to pick me up in an Integrale. Motored off to his lock up, tested the M3. On the way back, he says "Do you want to drive the Integrale back ?".......oh yes......that return journey is etched in my memory. Mental car, show it a corner any corner, any speed....no problem, just keep your foot in. Brilliant.

[bloomen]

chelme said:

The EVO2 is not so different from the EVO1, to be considered a non homologation. It was after all one that was subtly improved over the EVO1 which is why it is coveted the most.

Had both. I would prefer a 1 again but not with leather. The 2's seats gave me a sore arse. Other than that the only noticeable day to day difference is a less laggy turbo.

I seem to recall 2s are regarded as hand built compared to the 1 but there was no detectable difference in build quality.

Not sure I'd want a non evo. Their suspension is way crashier and much, much weaker brakes and lights. A HF 4WD would be a cool thing to have but super rare now.

All of mine were reliable but there were always minor niggles. This was before they got proper old and rusty and expensive of course.

[Itsallicanafford]

andrewcliffe said:

viggyp said:

Itsallicanafford said:

Question - How closely related to the integral engine was the original 16v turbo lump in the fiat coupe?

The Coupe lump is lifted from the Integrale except with less power and maybe different cams.

According to the FIA homologation departments, cams have same dimensions, same compression ratio. So engine internals likely to be same. External things such as engine manangment may have differed, or peak boost.

thanks for the info, i had in my mind that they were similar but i'm generally wrong about these things!

[NewUsername]

andrewcliffe said:

Evolved said:

Where is this info from and based on what? Did a quick search and can’t find anything to back up that statement.

There are tons of engines I’d think of before this one in relation to motorsport wins. Be interested to see some links etc.

Well the Fiat / Lancia twin-cam engine has quite a pedigree over the years with wins in both rallying and circuit racing with 20 year gap between its first world championship with and its last. Introduced in road trim in 1966 and finally withdrawn in 1998. It has been used in variety of capacities from 1.4 turbo to 2.1 supercharged. Used in Fiat, Lancia, Alfa Romeo, Morgan, FSO and LaForza road cars as well.

Fiat
1972 World Rally Champion Fiat 124 Abarth
1977-80 World Rally Champion Fiat 131

Lancia
1979-81 World Endurance Champions - Montecarlo Turbo
1982 - several race wins in Group 6 racing before Group C introduced.
1983 World Rally Champion with 037
1987-92 World Rally Champion six years running with the Delta HF4WD, Integrale 8v, Integrale 16v

Alfa Romeo
1994 155 BTCC car used head from a 155Q4, The 155 Q4 used a Integrale engine

Edited by andrewcliffe on Wednesday 27th November 12:00

Note - Major Successes, not all

Major successes
DFV normally aspirated 3.0-litre 90° V8

Formula One Drivers' Champions (12):

1968 Graham Hill (Team Lotus)
1969 Jackie Stewart (Matra)
1970 Jochen Rindt (Team Lotus)
1971 Jackie Stewart (Tyrrell)
1972 Emerson Fittipaldi (Team Lotus)
1973 Jackie Stewart (Tyrrell)
1974 Emerson Fittipaldi (McLaren)
1976 James Hunt (McLaren)
1978 Mario Andretti (Team Lotus)
1980 Alan Jones (Williams)
1981 Nelson Piquet (Brabham)
1982 Keke Rosberg (Williams)
Formula One Constructors' Champions (10):

1968 Lotus
1969 Matra
1970 Lotus
1971 Tyrrell
1972 Lotus
1973 Lotus
1974 McLaren
1978 Lotus
1980 Williams
1981 Williams
Le Mans 24 Hours winners (2):

1975 Jacky Ickx/Derek Bell (Mirage),
1980 Jean Rondeau/Jean-Pierre Jaussaud (Rondeau)
Formula 3000 Champions (6):

1985 Christian Danner (March Engineering)
1986 Ivan Capelli (March Engineering)
1987 Stefano Modena (March Engineering)
1988 Roberto Moreno (Reynard)
1992 Luca Badoer (Reynard)
DFX turbocharged 2.65-litre 90° V8

Indy 500 winners (10):

1978 Al Unser (Lola)
1979 Rick Mears (Penske)
1980 Johnny Rutherford (Chaparral)
1981 Bobby Unser (Penske)
1982 Gordon Johncock (Wildcat)
1983 Tom Sneva (March)
1984 Rick Mears (March)
1985 Danny Sullivan (March)
1986 Bobby Rahal (March)
1987 Al Unser (March)
USAC Champions (3):

1977 Tom Sneva (McLaren/Penske)
1978 Tom Sneva (Penske)
1979 A. J. Foyt (Parnelli*)
CART Champions (9):

1979 Rick Mears (Penske)
1980 Johnny Rutherford (Chaparral)
1981 Rick Mears (Penske)
1982 Rick Mears (Penske)
1983 Al Unser (Penske)
1984 Mario Andretti (Lola)
1985 Al Unser (March)
1986 Bobby Rahal (March)
1987 Bobby Rahal (Lola)

[andrewcliffe]

I wasn't 'dissing' the DFV, I was listing some of the successes of an engine that to many has flown under their radar.

[don logan]

I’ve owned a grey 16v and the brightest white EVO 1

My EVO 1 had a peak of 1.9 bar boost and it was quick by today’s standards, I did 45k miles in it with no big dramas, it liked arb drop links and suspension bushes, the electrics weren’t really a problem, I remember the rear lights sometimes needed a slap to get them working!

I drove it to the South of France in 95 and it felt truly exotic even then

I sold it in 2000 for.......... £4.5k

Mot check says it was last MOTd in 2014

I’d LOVE another but as has been said lots of times already, prices are just too high

Oddly they are one of the only cars that don’t look great in black, the navy looks great and the yellow and one of the few cars I like in red (with the tan interior and that slightly blue tint in the windows, was that Solextra?)

I’d love another white one, mine had a really strange GREEN alcantara interior but I thought and still think it looks great!

[Robinus]

I had an Evo ll & had a go in an Integrale: what a vehicle. Both superb machines & had the character the Evo didn't.

[Stellartois]

After reading this I thought I'd better fire mine up and move it around a bit to make sure the tyres don't flat spot, fired up first time of asking.
Evo 2 Giallo, owned for nearly 6 wonderful years, it's a love story, simple as that. Yes she takes a bit of mo eye out of my wallet every year but it's usually just routine servicing costs, nothing really problematic with it.
A car like this makes someone's day every time I take it out, it really does give you the best feeling ever when driving around in it.
https://youtu.be/pNUh-XdTXvU

[Pericoloso]

bloomen said:

I seem to recall 2s are regarded as hand built compared to the 1 but there was no detectable difference in build quality.

The last Integrales,so presumably the 2s,were built at Maggiora factory in Chivasso near Turin.
When they finished they assembled a FIAT that is now close to my heart.

[chelme]

NewUsername said:

andrewcliffe said:

Evolved said:

Where is this info from and based on what? Did a quick search and can’t find anything to back up that statement.

There are tons of engines I’d think of before this one in relation to motorsport wins. Be interested to see some links etc.

Well the Fiat / Lancia twin-cam engine has quite a pedigree over the years with wins in both rallying and circuit racing with 20 year gap between its first world championship with and its last. Introduced in road trim in 1966 and finally withdrawn in 1998. It has been used in variety of capacities from 1.4 turbo to 2.1 supercharged. Used in Fiat, Lancia, Alfa Romeo, Morgan, FSO and LaForza road cars as well.

Fiat
1972 World Rally Champion Fiat 124 Abarth
1977-80 World Rally Champion Fiat 131

Lancia
1979-81 World Endurance Champions - Montecarlo Turbo
1982 - several race wins in Group 6 racing before Group C introduced.
1983 World Rally Champion with 037
1987-92 World Rally Champion six years running with the Delta HF4WD, Integrale 8v, Integrale 16v

Alfa Romeo
1994 155 BTCC car used head from a 155Q4, The 155 Q4 used a Integrale engine

Edited by andrewcliffe on Wednesday 27th November 12:00

Note - Major Successes, not all

Major successes
DFV normally aspirated 3.0-litre 90° V8

Formula One Drivers' Champions (12):

1968 Graham Hill (Team Lotus)
1969 Jackie Stewart (Matra)
1970 Jochen Rindt (Team Lotus)
1971 Jackie Stewart (Tyrrell)
1972 Emerson Fittipaldi (Team Lotus)
1973 Jackie Stewart (Tyrrell)
1974 Emerson Fittipaldi (McLaren)
1976 James Hunt (McLaren)
1978 Mario Andretti (Team Lotus)
1980 Alan Jones (Williams)
1981 Nelson Piquet (Brabham)
1982 Keke Rosberg (Williams)
Formula One Constructors' Champions (10):

1968 Lotus
1969 Matra
1970 Lotus
1971 Tyrrell
1972 Lotus
1973 Lotus
1974 McLaren
1978 Lotus
1980 Williams
1981 Williams
Le Mans 24 Hours winners (2):

1975 Jacky Ickx/Derek Bell (Mirage),
1980 Jean Rondeau/Jean-Pierre Jaussaud (Rondeau)
Formula 3000 Champions (6):

1985 Christian Danner (March Engineering)
1986 Ivan Capelli (March Engineering)
1987 Stefano Modena (March Engineering)
1988 Roberto Moreno (Reynard)
1992 Luca Badoer (Reynard)
DFX turbocharged 2.65-litre 90° V8

Indy 500 winners (10):

1978 Al Unser (Lola)
1979 Rick Mears (Penske)
1980 Johnny Rutherford (Chaparral)
1981 Bobby Unser (Penske)
1982 Gordon Johncock (Wildcat)
1983 Tom Sneva (March)
1984 Rick Mears (March)
1985 Danny Sullivan (March)
1986 Bobby Rahal (March)
1987 Al Unser (March)
USAC Champions (3):

1977 Tom Sneva (McLaren/Penske)
1978 Tom Sneva (Penske)
1979 A. J. Foyt (Parnelli*)
CART Champions (9):

1979 Rick Mears (Penske)
1980 Johnny Rutherford (Chaparral)
1981 Rick Mears (Penske)
1982 Rick Mears (Penske)
1983 Al Unser (Penske)
1984 Mario Andretti (Lola)
1985 Al Unser (March)
1986 Bobby Rahal (March)
1987 Bobby Rahal (Lola)

Fair enough - I should have been specific and said Rally Championships...I am curious, has the Cosworth DFV V8 also been used in road cars?

[Pericoloso]

chelme said:

.I am curious, has the Cosworth DFV V8 also been used in road cars?

I don't think so ,pure racing engine ,Formula 1 and Sportscar racing /Endurance in many similar evolutions.

[Whatsmyname]

I owned an Evo2 Lagos it was alright, very strong mechanically and having an open diff at the front and LSD at the rear meant it could spin on a sixpence. Not sure what they are like now, it was about 10 years ago I had mine, metal work is absolutely shocking even if it looks mint I'd be poking an endoscope everywhere. Might be worth £40k as an investment but not a £40k driving experience.

[bloomen]

Whatsmyname said:

Might be worth £40k as an investment but not a £40k driving experience.

Dunno what a 40 grand experience would be but yeah I can't ever see myself paying that much for one, and that's at the lower end of asking prices for the best ones.

I'll leave it as a happy memory.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

shoestring7 said:

I keep coming back to the same question- why are modern manufacturers unable to produce cars that are as compete and engaging as they were 30 years ago?

No expert, but safety/weight. Airbags, abs, esc, and all the the other stuff that is a requirement today.

[NewUsername]

chelme said:

Fair enough - I should have been specific and said Rally Championships...I am curious, has the Cosworth DFV V8 also been used in road cars?

I’d probably say it’s up there although the BDA must be in with a shout with it’s success in various series and it’s longevity, still in serious volume use today

[howardhughes]

Turbobanana said:

In 2000, I had to deliver a brand new M5 to an address in London. It was boring.

Rightfully would have been if you were delivering a new £50k car to it's customer...

[wolfie28]

On my bucket list but prices over the past few years have seen this iconic car move out of range of what I can afford. When I go to car meets/events it is one of the few cars I always stop and look around at length with envious eyes. Would be interesting to compare to my Mitsi Evo 6 TME.