Best Hot Hatch of the 21st Century – nominations
Discussion
. PHuzzy said:
nickfrog said:
PHuzzy said:
I'm sure now there'll be comparisons between some track tuned FWD car to a M140i but if you even think of doing that, at least do a like for like comparison with the cars and pick something that was designed for the track.
Which RWD hot hatch would you pick that was designed for the track, to compare it to a standard FWD hot hatch like the Civic or Megane Cup? No one makes a RWD track focussed hot hatch because that's not the point of a hot hatch, there are lots of track focussed RWD cars though that are better than the ones you mentioned because that's what they're designed for.
egor110 said:
PHuzzy said:
If drifting/powersliding counts as losing control then I suppose you're right.
Doesn't mean you can't control drifting/sliding though and that's far more fun.
Be honest , day to day how often do you actually power slide your car ?Doesn't mean you can't control drifting/sliding though and that's far more fun.
Even on a trackday you'd be removed if you keep drifting your car.
nickfrog said:
PHuzzy said:
nickfrog said:
PHuzzy said:
I'm sure now there'll be comparisons between some track tuned FWD car to a M140i but if you even think of doing that, at least do a like for like comparison with the cars and pick something that was designed for the track.
Which RWD hot hatch would you pick that was designed for the track, to compare it to a standard FWD hot hatch like the Civic or Megane Cup? No one makes a RWD track focussed hot hatch because that's not the point of a hot hatch, there are lots of track focussed RWD cars though that are better than the ones you mentioned because that's what they're designed for.
nickfrog said:
PHuzzy said:
nickfrog said:
PHuzzy said:
I'm sure now there'll be comparisons between some track tuned FWD car to a M140i but if you even think of doing that, at least do a like for like comparison with the cars and pick something that was designed for the track.
Which RWD hot hatch would you pick that was designed for the track, to compare it to a standard FWD hot hatch like the Civic or Megane Cup? No one makes a RWD track focussed hot hatch because that's not the point of a hot hatch, there are lots of track focussed RWD cars though that are better than the ones you mentioned because that's what they're designed for.
Against which car(s).. The stripped out 2 seat Megane and Civic? Or just the non limited edition regular versions?
DoubleD said:
SidewaysSi said:
GT3 RS.
And a plus point with these is how easily you can get the family and the weekly shop in as well.
That's why I've asked what the criteria behind the question is. Same goes for price really.
A Giulia QF is cheaper than the aforementioned RS Trophy R (in its record setting spec) but also has 4 seats, and is far more usable, not really track orientated and still beat it round the ring. If we're going for hardcore cars then you could include Radicals, Caterhams, KTM Xbows etc.
SidewaysSi said:
egor110 said:
PHuzzy said:
If drifting/powersliding counts as losing control then I suppose you're right.
Doesn't mean you can't control drifting/sliding though and that's far more fun.
Be honest , day to day how often do you actually power slide your car ?Doesn't mean you can't control drifting/sliding though and that's far more fun.
Even on a trackday you'd be removed if you keep drifting your car.
It would also kick the back sideways virtually on the spot in the snow I found. Handy when parking!
PHuzzy said:
DoubleD said:
Was the civic a stripped out 2 seater? I know the megane was.
The record setting one was."Honda set the new ‘Ring record during the final phase of testing for the model, on a dry track with “optimum ambient temperature for the best tyre and powertrain performance”. The car’s only modification was a 'floating' roll cage that Honda said offered no improvements to rigidity. To compensate for the cage’s weight, the infotainment system and rear seats were removed."
So it was done for safety, but the car would lap the same time with it removed and the seats back in.
DoubleD said:
PHuzzy said:
DoubleD said:
Was the civic a stripped out 2 seater? I know the megane was.
The record setting one was."Honda set the new ‘Ring record during the final phase of testing for the model, on a dry track with “optimum ambient temperature for the best tyre and powertrain performance”. The car’s only modification was a 'floating' roll cage that Honda said offered no improvements to rigidity. To compensate for the cage’s weight, the infotainment system and rear seats were removed."
So it was done for safety, but the car would lap the same time with it removed and the seats back in.
A 'floating' cage is bolted rather than welded in place but I just can't see how it wouldn't increase stiffness by spreading torsional load.
PHuzzy said:
DoubleD said:
PHuzzy said:
DoubleD said:
Was the civic a stripped out 2 seater? I know the megane was.
The record setting one was."Honda set the new ‘Ring record during the final phase of testing for the model, on a dry track with “optimum ambient temperature for the best tyre and powertrain performance”. The car’s only modification was a 'floating' roll cage that Honda said offered no improvements to rigidity. To compensate for the cage’s weight, the infotainment system and rear seats were removed."
So it was done for safety, but the car would lap the same time with it removed and the seats back in.
A 'floating' cage is bolted rather than welded in place but I just can't see how it wouldn't increase stiffness by spreading torsional load.
DoubleD said:
PHuzzy said:
DoubleD said:
PHuzzy said:
DoubleD said:
Was the civic a stripped out 2 seater? I know the megane was.
The record setting one was."Honda set the new ‘Ring record during the final phase of testing for the model, on a dry track with “optimum ambient temperature for the best tyre and powertrain performance”. The car’s only modification was a 'floating' roll cage that Honda said offered no improvements to rigidity. To compensate for the cage’s weight, the infotainment system and rear seats were removed."
So it was done for safety, but the car would lap the same time with it removed and the seats back in.
A 'floating' cage is bolted rather than welded in place but I just can't see how it wouldn't increase stiffness by spreading torsional load.
I think with the Megane, you can buy the exact spec, although limited edition and very costly.
Same with the Leon Sub 8 or whatever it was if you bought all the packs.
I just cannot see how bolting steel tubing with triangulation etc across various points of the car doesn't offer any performance benefit.
Clio 182 Cup for pure fun and chuck-ability, just a great all rounder that flatters the driver.
Fabia VRS 1.9 TDi because the 130 PD engine is excellent and there is something endearing about having that brute of an engine in a small hatch. Massive tuning potential.
MK5 Golf GTi. This was a hard one as I wanted a space for the MK2 Leon Cupra R, spent a lot of time with that car and loved it. The MK5 GTi, however, heralded a return to form for VW and performance Golfs
Fabia VRS 1.9 TDi because the 130 PD engine is excellent and there is something endearing about having that brute of an engine in a small hatch. Massive tuning potential.
MK5 Golf GTi. This was a hard one as I wanted a space for the MK2 Leon Cupra R, spent a lot of time with that car and loved it. The MK5 GTi, however, heralded a return to form for VW and performance Golfs
PHuzzy said:
egor110 said:
PHuzzy said:
If drifting/powersliding counts as losing control then I suppose you're right.
Doesn't mean you can't control drifting/sliding though and that's far more fun.
Be honest , day to day how often do you actually power slide your car ?Doesn't mean you can't control drifting/sliding though and that's far more fun.
Even on a trackday you'd be removed if you keep drifting your car.
With the recent cold and wet weather, probably closer to 75% of journeys.
In a RWD (or good FWD) that means slipping about within the limits of safety and sanity. It doesn't have to be a tire smoking drift on an empty airfield, in fact I'm not even certain that is fun, but a little tail wagging out of junctions, winding off the lock for the apex rather than adding more (Audi S3).
The odd donut in a RWD also brings a smile to a dull day.
Edited by Niffty951 on Sunday 1st December 16:13
PHuzzy said:
DoubleD said:
PHuzzy said:
DoubleD said:
PHuzzy said:
DoubleD said:
Was the civic a stripped out 2 seater? I know the megane was.
The record setting one was."Honda set the new ‘Ring record during the final phase of testing for the model, on a dry track with “optimum ambient temperature for the best tyre and powertrain performance”. The car’s only modification was a 'floating' roll cage that Honda said offered no improvements to rigidity. To compensate for the cage’s weight, the infotainment system and rear seats were removed."
So it was done for safety, but the car would lap the same time with it removed and the seats back in.
A 'floating' cage is bolted rather than welded in place but I just can't see how it wouldn't increase stiffness by spreading torsional load.
I think with the Megane, you can buy the exact spec, although limited edition and very costly.
Same with the Leon Sub 8 or whatever it was if you bought all the packs.
I just cannot see how bolting steel tubing with triangulation etc across various points of the car doesn't offer any performance benefit.
Best Hot Hatch of the 21st Century – as voted by PH
Yes we all love a 205 GTI, Mk1 Golf GTI and Lancia Delta Integrale. But what about something more modern from the last 20 years?
For now, lets take nominations.
Rules
It had to have been launched in or after the year 2000
Needs to be variant specific – eg. Clio 172 Cup or FK8 Civic Type R, not just Clio 172 or Civic Type R
Must be a road going production car
Nominate up to three cars
Save the conversation for after the vote – just nominations here please
Well that was easy for some people who took the time too read the main objective lol nominate up two three cars of your own personal choice easy
Yes we all love a 205 GTI, Mk1 Golf GTI and Lancia Delta Integrale. But what about something more modern from the last 20 years?
For now, lets take nominations.
Rules
It had to have been launched in or after the year 2000
Needs to be variant specific – eg. Clio 172 Cup or FK8 Civic Type R, not just Clio 172 or Civic Type R
Must be a road going production car
Nominate up to three cars
Save the conversation for after the vote – just nominations here please
Well that was easy for some people who took the time too read the main objective lol nominate up two three cars of your own personal choice easy
BMW M140i
The thinking man’s hot hatch. 6 cylinders and 3 litres beats 4 cylinders and 2 litres all day, every day. Brilliant build, great tech and rear wheel drive, the only way to go. So much more tunable than any rival with 450 hp easily achieved with little expenditure. Just the best.
The thinking man’s hot hatch. 6 cylinders and 3 litres beats 4 cylinders and 2 litres all day, every day. Brilliant build, great tech and rear wheel drive, the only way to go. So much more tunable than any rival with 450 hp easily achieved with little expenditure. Just the best.
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