Best Hot Hatch of the 21st Century – vote here

Best Hot Hatch of the 21st Century – vote here

Poll: Best Hot Hatch of the 21st Century – vote here

Voting Closed

Total Members Polled: 542

Renaultsport Megane R26.R: 14%
Honda Civic Type R EP3: 13%
Volkswagen Golf GTI Mk5: 8%
BMW M140i: 10%
Renaultsport Clio 200 Cup: 6%
Alfa Romeo 147 GTA: 4%
Renaultsport Clio 182 Trophy: 22%
Ford Fiesta ST Mk7: 6%
Renaultsport Clio 172 Cup: 10%
Renaultsport Clio V6: 7%
TOPIC CLOSED
TOPIC CLOSED
Author
Discussion

frayz

2,629 posts

158 months

Tuesday 10th December 2019
quotequote all
Leins said:
Not sure I agree on this as, other than the swapping out of the RFTs, the GP1 is pretty well sorted IMO. Might be under-braked for heavy track work, but for the road I find the standard set-up fine. If I was to be objective, I’d say the seats are a bit heavy and it would have been better with the JCW Sparcos fitted, but other than that I don’t get the overt criticism

I rate my GP1 more fun to drive than my old M3 CSL
Well i can only speak as i find from personal ownership experience.

It felt overly heavy but not heavy with a reflection on quality, heavy in a numb cumbersome way.
Overwheeled and as we have already touched on, the tyres are crap. The damping was crashy and poor and the brakes pretty numb.
Seats were too heavy too as you mention.
Torque was good as was the diff, but steering wasn't exactly brimming with feedback either. The TCS was hideously oversensitive that bordered on dangerous to the point i turned it off as i engaged first gear on every drive. Numerous times it left me stranded nosed out on junctions and roundabouts where the slightest hint of wheel slip would kill all power. Frankly it was dangerous.

I had a 1 owner car with 26k miles on it and was absolutely mint. However likened it "Triggers Broom" as i replaced what felt like more of the car than was original within the first 6 months of ownership. Things would randomly break and fall off it, even the OEM JCW exhaust cracked and fell off. The engine always sounded like it was going to explode never exactly gave confidence, and the rate at which it broke spoke volumes.
Bushes, dampers, timing chain tensioner, thermostat housing, fan switch, topmounts, wheel bearings, interior electrics.
It had 2 brand new OEM genuine BMW engine mounts within 10 months as they just failed and spilled their guts down the inner wing.
This wasn't an abused track car either, this was a car i drove daily and looked after without any expense spared.
All of this was replaced and more within less than a year!!

I sold my "crap French" 182 which was superb and never once let me down in 4.5 years and 84k miles for what i thought was an upgrade to the GP. I thought the BMW build quality would be a big step up in quality and performance.
However was left gutted by it in my ownership as i explain above.

I had one decent track day in it which i have to say i did enjoy where it was fun, but by that time i had change a hell of a lot on the car. I also took it to do the NC500. That was a great trip but i have no lasting memories of the car and could miss it any less.
Ive been lucky enough to own and drive many great cars, some of which are truly special.

The GP1 was anything but an enjoyable drive or ownership experience for me.
If you love yours, all power to you, best of luck with it. However to me, they're massively overrated and nowhere near the league of a Trophy or R26R






Edited by frayz on Tuesday 10th December 22:10

Hothouse

111 posts

89 months

Tuesday 10th December 2019
quotequote all
Indeed, had very similar experiences with our Mini JCW and the poor reliability left us feeling less inclined to push it hard.
I think reliability is a huge part of a great hot hatch. You need to know you can drive hard and still expect it to perform the daily chores.

dasbimmerowner

364 posts

140 months

Tuesday 10th December 2019
quotequote all
EP3 Type R for me. Slightly biased as I used to own one that revved to 9300rpm*

  • Modified obviously!

Opel-GT

584 posts

177 months

Tuesday 10th December 2019
quotequote all
What no Talbot Sunbeam Lotus on the list?

Leins

9,418 posts

147 months

Wednesday 11th December 2019
quotequote all
frayz said:
Well i can only speak as i find from personal ownership experience.

It felt overly heavy but not heavy with a reflection on quality, heavy in a numb cumbersome way.
Overwheeled and as we have already touched on, the tyres are crap. The damping was crashy and poor and the brakes pretty numb.
Seats were too heavy too as you mention.
Torque was good as was the diff, but steering wasn't exactly brimming with feedback either. The TCS was hideously oversensitive that bordered on dangerous to the point i turned it off as i engaged first gear on every drive. Numerous times it left me stranded nosed out on junctions and roundabouts where the slightest hint of wheel slip would kill all power. Frankly it was dangerous.

I had a 1 owner car with 26k miles on it and was absolutely mint. However likened it "Triggers Broom" as i replaced what felt like more of the car than was original within the first 6 months of ownership. Things would randomly break and fall off it, even the OEM JCW exhaust cracked and fell off. The engine always sounded like it was going to explode never exactly gave confidence, and the rate at which it broke spoke volumes.
Bushes, dampers, timing chain tensioner, thermostat housing, fan switch, topmounts, wheel bearings, interior electrics.
It had 2 brand new OEM genuine BMW engine mounts within 10 months as they just failed and spilled their guts down the inner wing.
This wasn't an abused track car either, this was a car i drove daily and looked after without any expense spared.
All of this was replaced and more within less than a year!!

I sold my "crap French" 182 which was superb and never once let me down in 4.5 years and 84k miles for what i thought was an upgrade to the GP. I thought the BMW build quality would be a big step up in quality and performance.
However was left gutted by it in my ownership as i explain above.

I had one decent track day in it which i have to say i did enjoy where it was fun, but by that time i had change a hell of a lot on the car. I also took it to do the NC500. That was a great trip but i have no lasting memories of the car and could miss it any less.
Ive been lucky enough to own and drive many great cars, some of which are truly special.

The GP1 was anything but an enjoyable drive or ownership experience for me.
If you love yours, all power to you, best of luck with it. However to me, they're massively overrated and nowhere near the league of a Trophy or R26R
Well for some reason we seem to have had very different ownership experiences with our cars, as a lot of what you write doesn’t tally at all with my last five years with a GP. But yes, each to their own and all that

Tickle

4,879 posts

203 months

Wednesday 11th December 2019
quotequote all
Opel-GT said:
What no Talbot Sunbeam Lotus on the list?
Nope, they missed being eligible by 23 years or so.

Mandalore

4,165 posts

112 months

Wednesday 11th December 2019
quotequote all
robbieheward said:
Clio 182 Trophy.

Ran one for three years. Sold it last year and have regretted selling it ever since....
I bet it never lost money in those three years?

They seem to be appreciating quite heavily.


Simonbray

1 posts

97 months

Wednesday 11th December 2019
quotequote all
My Vote...Clio 172 Cup.

BenLowden

Original Poster:

5,968 posts

176 months

PH Marketing Bloke

Wednesday 11th December 2019
quotequote all
Simonbray said:
My Vote...Clio 172 Cup.
Well worth the four year wait for that post and vote thumbup

BenLowden

Original Poster:

5,968 posts

176 months

PH Marketing Bloke

PH TEAM

Wednesday 11th December 2019
quotequote all
lemmingjames said:
Pistonheads is being sponsored by Renault for this vote/poll/outcome
I'd like to remind everyone that these 10 shortlisted cars are as nominated by PH members – it has nothing to do with the PH staff!

Paddy80

6 posts

57 months

Wednesday 11th December 2019
quotequote all
182 Trophy

ClioTrophy55

312 posts

99 months

Wednesday 11th December 2019
quotequote all
Clio 182 Trophy.
Had mine from new on 1st October 2005 - "55" plate day.
Lots of other cars have passed through the family fleet since then - GT4, GT3, Cayman R, 911 GTS, ...
But the Trophy is still on the drive (or at least it was when I left home this morning)

Lord-Haggis

690 posts

166 months

Wednesday 11th December 2019
quotequote all
frayz said:
Agreed,

I tried to "fix" my GP with Bilstein PSS10s, AP brakes, 17" OZ wheels and proper tyres amongst other high end parts.
It was still st... just now owing me more money.
Its all subjective, I've owned other hot hatches that were dynamically better than the mini (wrong era for this poll) and imo much better than the Clio and CTR, my old Alfa Romeo 145 was amazing I love that stupid thing, it was built so badly but it had an amazing engine and chassis.

Hothouse said:
Is this not missing the point a bit. Sure, looks probably make the difference when buying but in deciding "best hot hatch" it must come down to the one that ultimately balances hatch practicality with performance. Had a JCW Mini which looked fab but not even close to any of the Clios for practicality and pure fun. Perhaps you hit on the reason. BMW went after looks (sales) over performance with alloys that were too big and run flats etc etc.
Got to be a RenaultSports...problem is which one.
Its why looks are important, my old Alfa 145 was a better chassis and engine than the mini but in different ways. The Cooper S is all in perfect proportion IMO and I love the interior. The chassis on the mini with a bit of fettling was amazing. While you could by the Clio in Trophy guise out of the box, don't forget this was BMW / BINI's 1st go at a hot hatch / FWD car, Renault had been doing this for a long time and had some amazing pedigree with the Clio Williams etc.

With decent tyres, better brakes and some coilovers the woes of the stock set up on the mini would be easily banished. The supercharged engine is just the crowning glory, the base tritec is an unremarkable motor in many ways, its a 1.6 SHOC but with a super charger and a couple of modifications it was capable for 280 bhp and would last for years, theres cases of SC R53's with 148k on them with 280+ bhp before the engines needed rebuilding. Compared to most cars they are also a joy to spanner on imo.

There's a reason I still have my R53, I've owned it from new in 2003 and many other stablemates have come and gone in the time.

Opel-GT

584 posts

177 months

Wednesday 11th December 2019
quotequote all
Tickle said:
Nope, they missed being eligible by 23 years or so.
Oh yeah, I’m living in the past, Just a little late.

TheJimi

24,862 posts

242 months

Wednesday 11th December 2019
quotequote all
Something that genuinely baffles me is this –

We had a Mk1 Focus 1.6 a few years back.  I was absolutely struck by how well handled, how feelsome & communicative the steering was, and how nice the gearbox felt.

On the face of it, Ford should have walked all over everything else with the hot version of that car.

Instead, they didn’t, apparently.

What went wrong?


lemmingjames

7,433 posts

203 months

Wednesday 11th December 2019
quotequote all
BenLowden said:
I'd like to remind everyone that these 10 shortlisted cars are as nominated by PH members – it has nothing to do with the PH staff!
Thats what they all say ;-)

Robmarriott

2,633 posts

157 months

Wednesday 11th December 2019
quotequote all
TheJimi said:
Something that genuinely baffles me is this –

We had a Mk1 Focus 1.6 a few years back.  I was absolutely struck by how well handled, how feelsome & communicative the steering was, and how nice the gearbox felt.

On the face of it, Ford should have walked all over everything else with the hot version of that car.

Instead, they didn’t, apparently.

What went wrong?
The RS was too expensive compared to the ‘rivals’ in 2002 and the ST170, despite actually being very good, wasn’t the RS.

Dr Interceptor

7,743 posts

195 months

Wednesday 11th December 2019
quotequote all
Would have been more interesting to only allow one entry per manufacturer.

So Renaults best, up against Fords best, against VW's best.

Otherwise its just the 'Renault show'.

DoubleD

22,154 posts

107 months

Wednesday 11th December 2019
quotequote all
Dr Interceptor said:
Would have been more interesting to only allow one entry per manufacturer.

So Renaults best, up against Fords best, against VW's best.

Otherwise its just the 'Renault show'.
Maybe another time, but this is Best Hot Hatch, not Best Hot Hatch Manufacturer.

Dr Interceptor

7,743 posts

195 months

Wednesday 11th December 2019
quotequote all
DoubleD said:
Dr Interceptor said:
Would have been more interesting to only allow one entry per manufacturer.

So Renaults best, up against Fords best, against VW's best.

Otherwise its just the 'Renault show'.
Maybe another time, but this is Best Hot Hatch, not Best Hot Hatch Manufacturer.
No this is best hot hatch in some peoples opinion. Most voting won't have driven all of them, so its pointless.
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