RE: Gordon Murray | PH Meets

[TyrannosauRoss Lex]

big_rob_sydney said:

TyrannosauRoss Lex said:

big_rob_sydney said:

GM is a well respected pro, but even so, I would tread with caution. Possibly something from Koenigsegg or Zonda instead would be my preferred option in this space.

That's fair enough. But what Koenigsegg or Pagani offer a high revving NA V12 with a manual gearbox?

NA V12 / manual are not things I get hung up about. If a Zonda is good enough for Lewis Hamilton, then it's about a million times more than enough for me.

It's not about whether it's good enough for Lewis Hamilton, it's whether it's what someone wants. Some people want a manual gearbox.

[Cold]

GetCarter said:

No. As I mentioned, he's been flying around the world meeting people to whom £600k is small change and getting a firm commitment from them that they want one. As the F1 has proved, in 10 years time they'll be worth 10 or 20 times as much, so it's a no-brainer to spend the cash.

If you think it's a cost thing for GMD ... take a look at the new premises (currently being built).

https://www.designengine.co.uk/projects/gordon-mur...

As for not producing what he said he would, He's sold the MOTIV.e to Yamaha, and the TVR to Ted Edgar. Both on time and under budget.

Interesting that it's needing the investment of numerous private buyers to fund the project. Does this mean that a financial backer such as a bank or other industry have little confidence or is there another reason?

[John_S4x4]

I wonder if we will see Jay Leno buy a T50 and then a Jay Leno's Garage video to go with it ?

[Gary Woodland]

I've worked with GM on 2 projects that never came to fruition. I hope this is one that finally breaks the run as it has the potential to be interesting.

[thegreenhell]

Equus said:

100SRV said:

Rod Hall was way ahead of his time...

Not as far ahead of his time as Jim Hall, mind you.

Coincidentally, the subject of Joe Saward's 'fascinating F1 fact' today... https://www.motorsportweek.com/joeblogsf1/id/00598

[Wammer]

TyrannosauRoss Lex said:

big_rob_sydney said:

TyrannosauRoss Lex said:

big_rob_sydney said:

GM is a well respected pro, but even so, I would tread with caution. Possibly something from Koenigsegg or Zonda instead would be my preferred option in this space.

That's fair enough. But what Koenigsegg or Pagani offer a high revving NA V12 with a manual gearbox?

NA V12 / manual are not things I get hung up about. If a Zonda is good enough for Lewis Hamilton, then it's about a million times more than enough for me.

It's not about whether it's good enough for Lewis Hamilton, it's whether it's what someone wants. Some people want a manual gearbox.

Well as Lewis Hamiltons Zonda 760LH had a manual gear box that he requested, im not exactly sure what your point is.

[GTR-Mike]

Rocket. said:

It's quite amusing seeing all the 'it will never happen' brigade on here. If it weren't for the product and the designer behind it I think it's fair to be cynical but citing due to lack of funds or access to capital is wrong, I think they would have little trouble getting funding for this.

I have absolutely no doubt this car will happen, I can imagine it's heavily over subscribed as £2mill is pocket change to some of the wealthiest car enthusiasts out there, for what will probably be the last of it's type.

Ref the car itself, I love the concept and the engineering but the only thing I am not overly struck on is the fan position, it looks a bit ugly and I think the styling at the moment is a bit too generic, I am hoping the final product will be a bit more adventurous.

Yep, I concur with the concept part. In my eyes the unique fan feature looks about as welcome as the Mr Fusion strapped onto the back of Doc Brown's Delorean. A bit 60's jet car with the fake thrust converted to invisible low pressure. Odd.

That said, to see a sharpened up F1 completed would be great. A non ostentatious supercar. Could it be?

[TyrannosauRoss Lex]

Wammer said:

TyrannosauRoss Lex said:

big_rob_sydney said:

TyrannosauRoss Lex said:

big_rob_sydney said:

GM is a well respected pro, but even so, I would tread with caution. Possibly something from Koenigsegg or Zonda instead would be my preferred option in this space.

That's fair enough. But what Koenigsegg or Pagani offer a high revving NA V12 with a manual gearbox?

NA V12 / manual are not things I get hung up about. If a Zonda is good enough for Lewis Hamilton, then it's about a million times more than enough for me.

It's not about whether it's good enough for Lewis Hamilton, it's whether it's what someone wants. Some people want a manual gearbox.

Well as Lewis Hamiltons Zonda 760LH had a manual gear box that he requested, im not exactly sure what your point is.

I assume you're talking to Rob, not me?

[hothatchery7]

Wammer said:

Well as Lewis Hamiltons Zonda 760LH had a manual gear box that he requested, im not exactly sure what your point is.

I think his point is that people have they’re own preferences and don’t blindly follow famous people.

[Quadcamboy]

drpep said:

“runs out at what we call Ferrari revs, so around 9500 rpm.”

Love it

[Jon_S_Rally]

I found this a bit odd in a way. The article started with talk of analogue supercars, but then got into active aero, hybrid engine assistance and all sorts of other things. That doesn't sound very analogue to me, manual gearbox or otherwise.

[monthefish]

ate one too said:

Leftfootwonder said:

Forgive my ignorance but what has Gordon Murray actually brought to market since the F1? (That's a genuine question not PH sarcasm)

Will we ever see this one ?

I think any credibility he had via his involvement in the F1 has been vastly eroded by this.

[anonymous-user]

Screaming V12 + manual gearbox. Literally nothing better.

[ate one too]

Has the GMD / Yamaha Motiv-e become anything more than a Motor Show display car ?

https://www.carscoops.com/2015/02/yamaha-will-buil...

Edited by ate one too on Wednesday 11th December 17:25

[Thankyou4calling]

We are still in 2019 so I guess it could be launched in the next 3 weeks.

I doubt if though

This’ll be the same. High expectations low reality.

[JxJ Jr.]

More recent news: https://www.autoblog.com/2019/10/23/yamaha-exits-a...

[big_rob_sydney]

hothatchery7 said:

Wammer said:

Well as Lewis Hamiltons Zonda 760LH had a manual gear box that he requested, im not exactly sure what your point is.

I think his point is that people have they’re own preferences and don’t blindly follow famous people.

All that, plus a subtle dig at the forums self-proclaimed driving gods. The idea that it "must" be NA V12 and manual. Please. If people making such ridiculous comments about road cars are actually half as good as their over-inflated egos suggest, I recommend they turn up to the first F1 race and actually SHOW people their driving skills, rather than post unaccomplished BS in forums.

[dandare]

Cold said:

GetCarter said:

No. As I mentioned, he's been flying around the world meeting people to whom £600k is small change and getting a firm commitment from them that they want one. As the F1 has proved, in 10 years time they'll be worth 10 or 20 times as much, so it's a no-brainer to spend the cash.

If you think it's a cost thing for GMD ... take a look at the new premises (currently being built).

https://www.designengine.co.uk/projects/gordon-mur...

As for not producing what he said he would, He's sold the MOTIV.e to Yamaha, and the TVR to Ted Edgar. Both on time and under budget.

Interesting that it's needing the investment of numerous private buyers to fund the project. Does this mean that a financial backer such as a bank or other industry have little confidence or is there another reason?

I expect that GM doesn't have that sort of loose change to put up front, and a bank loan would only eat profit, for no advantage. Plus banks aren't very good at calculating risks, so would probably turn him down.

He has a good reputation, can probably deliver the goods, and as somebody said, the deposit is loose change for a lot of people in this World. I'm sure plenty have gambled more money away in an evening.

It makes total sense to talk to the customers rather than to banks or other investors, unless I'm missing something.

[ES335]

[""The speed at which the engine responds was equally important. "It's the engine pick-up speed," Murray explains, "when you talk to owners of the F1 it's one of the things they love most about the car. It's schoolboy stuff - sit in the car and blip the throttle and it just goes wang-wang up and down. It's adding 10,000rpm a second, that's what people really loved."

Obviously the T50 would have to better that. "I told Cosworth that and then I got a rather facetious email from them back in January saying 'we think we've beaten your target' - 28,000 revs a second. Even as an engineer my head can't go there.""]

Assuming the car redlines at 12,000 rpm, this suggests that the engine (unloaded) will hit its redline in less than half a second. That is pretty impressive - there must be one hell of a mix of titanium and perhaps, carbon, in the flywheel and rotating/reciprocating components to do that.


Anyway, kudos to Mr Murray: notwithstanding the price (actually, probably because of it) this has an excellent chance of seeing the light of day.

[Vee12V]

hothatchery7 said:

Wammer said:

Well as Lewis Hamiltons Zonda 760LH had a manual gear box that he requested, im not exactly sure what your point is.

I think his point is that people have they’re own preferences and don’t blindly follow famous people.

While Hamilton has a manual Zonda, he's only fond of it to a certain point:

LH: "The Zonda is terrible to drive! It’s the best-sounding car I own, but handling-wise it’s the worst.”